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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:55 pm 
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VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
Getting your testosterone checked is useful to a degree but IMO shouldn't be taken as the final word. For example, here are some of the issues with getting your testosterone checked and basing everything off that one, solitary reading:


* Variation in serum levels. Influences include aging, obesity, thyroid dysfunction, diabetes, estrogens, and certain other diseases and drugs.
*What to measure? Sex-hormone binding globulin-bound testosterone accounts for 44% of the total but is unavailable to cells and affected by multiple conditions. Albumin-bound testosterone accounts for about 50% of the total and is weakly bound. Corticosteroid binding globulin-bound testosterone accounts for about 4% and is weakly bound. Free testosterone represents only 2% to 3% of the total and this is the important part :shock:
*One size does not fit all. Serum testosterone concentrations can vary by more than three orders of magnitude, depending on age, health, and other factors. No test can accurately capture the variation.
*Test technology. Radioimmunoassays, immunoassays, and liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry employ different principles to assess testosterone levels, and all have limitations.
*Lack of standardization. Includes definitions, parameters assessed, and reporting; there is no mandatory quality-control program.


Currently there is a lack of consensus about the definition of "low" testosterone among endocrinologists, urologists, and clinical pathologists. Published ranges for normal are based primarily on measurements in older men and are not designed to establish ranges in men with normal sexual and reproductive function. Normal ranges should be based on testosterone levels derived from a predefined health index population, which currently they are not.


Source reference: http://www.goldjournal.net/article/S0090-4295(13)01611-7/abstract

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:50 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 38
My testosterone was 113. Is that low enough for you?


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:26 pm 
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How old are you? Sure it's on the low side, but what did all of your other biomarkers come back like when you got checked?

FWIW I would be trying to figure out WHY it is so low and try to correct it at the root of the cause rather than to raising it via hormone altering meds; this is why having all of the data from the rest of the biomarkers (ALT/AST levels, lipids, CRP, T3/T4 etc) can sometimes reveal the bigger picture by enabling you or your doctor to link the dots together.

Good to hear you are off the meds now :)

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:37 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 38
Everything else was normal. Otherwise, at least one of the six doctors I visited would have likely recommended something else. Only my total test and free test was low. But this is all moot now. I fixed it and I now know that the standard medical practice in these cases is mostly pure BS and centered around getting one hooked on medication for the rest of their lives.

And in case anyone wants to know about how much my body has changed: Before treatment, I was doing multiple rounds of P90X and Insanity, I didn't appear to gain any muscle at all, but lost a good deal of fat. I went down to 155 pounds. After getting my testosterone corrected and continuing with the same exercises, I am around 185 pounds. I would guess about 5 pounds of that is fat. I feel a lot more solid and my muscles are firmer than at anytime in my life. I actually see performance increases now, whereas before, I only saw some minor increases in endurance. Recovery is much quicker and it takes me much less time to accomplish the same workouts now. Also, I have notice a significant decrease in joint and ligament pain when working out.

If anyone has similar issues, feel free to send me a PM with any questions. I have found that most people who haven't had this issue don't know much about it at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:59 pm 
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
PittyLove wrote:
Everything else was normal. Otherwise, at least one of the six doctors I visited would have likely recommended something else. Only my total test and free test was low. But this is all moot now. I fixed it and I now know that the standard medical practice in these cases is mostly pure BS and centered around getting one hooked on medication for the rest of their lives.

And in case anyone wants to know about how much my body has changed: Before treatment, I was doing multiple rounds of P90X and Insanity, I didn't appear to gain any muscle at all, but lost a good deal of fat. I went down to 155 pounds. After getting my testosterone corrected and continuing with the same exercises, I am around 185 pounds. I would guess about 5 pounds of that is fat. I feel a lot more solid and my muscles are firmer than at anytime in my life. I actually see performance increases now, whereas before, I only saw some minor increases in endurance. Recovery is much quicker and it takes me much less time to accomplish the same workouts now. Also, I have notice a significant decrease in joint and ligament pain when working out.

If anyone has similar issues, feel free to send me a PM with any questions. I have found that most people who haven't had this issue don't know much about it at all.

How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you know why your test levels are low?

It's probably the only thing I have never got checked when I've had my blood-work done. I have a couple of beautiful daughters, low bodyfat/high energy/good recovery from training and I feel fantastic so I don't really feel the need to know. Whether mine is low, normal or high (which I doubt at only a few years away from 40 haha) I'm fine. It is what it is.

Thanks for the explanation, take care MF.

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 9:32 am 
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Finch

Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:28 am
Posts: 2
PittyLove wrote:
Well, it has been over a year, but I wanted to give ya'll an update. I cycled Tamoxifen for 2 months on/2 months off, three times, and I am now free of all meds and my testosterone is staying in the low normal range. I sure am glad I didn't listen to the doctors.


I would get it checked again, if you have hypogonadism at whatever age youre at now, it can only get worse over time. Eventually you WILL need TRT or you will live a pretty miserable life. On another note SERMS can be quite unhealthy when compared to TRT which has no effect on lifespan. Clomid has caused eyesight deterioration for one....not sure about Nolvadex (Tamoxifen).

If you do decide to get TRT here are my suggestions. Get injections over the gel as its cheaper and keeps blood levels stable, and do the injections E3d or twice a week like tuesday/friday. Also have your E2 levels monitored by your doctor and try an herbal supplement for blood pressure if that ever becomes an issue. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. CHEERS


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:29 am 
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Finch

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:14 am
Posts: 4
PittyLove wrote:
My testosterone was 113. Is that low enough for you?


I just had a full checkup a few weeks ago with an MD, GP. I'm 48. My testosterone came back at 460 ( forgot what the units or the name of the test, I got tested at LabCorp ). My doctor told me that "low testosterone" begins at 300.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:33 am 
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Finch

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:14 am
Posts: 4
PittyLove wrote:
Well, it has been over a year, but I wanted to give ya'll an update. I cycled Tamoxifen for 2 months on/2 months off, three times, and I am now free of all meds and my testosterone is staying in the low normal range. I sure am glad I didn't listen to the doctors.


Congratulations.

I've heard of a drug developed for female fertility called clomid citrate. I think it works by stimulating some glands. In men it gets the body to begin producing more testosterone and often the drug can be discontinued while retaining the benefits.

Is Tamoxifen similar?

How did you find a doctor that knows about these things?


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:16 am 
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Finch

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:14 am
Posts: 4
Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:
Getting your testosterone checked is useful to a degree but IMO shouldn't be taken as the final word. For example, here are some of the issues with getting your testosterone checked and basing everything off that one, solitary reading:


* Variation in serum levels. Influences include aging, obesity, thyroid dysfunction, diabetes, estrogens, and certain other diseases and drugs.
*What to measure? Sex-hormone binding globulin-bound testosterone accounts for 44% of the total but is unavailable to cells and affected by multiple conditions. Albumin-bound testosterone accounts for about 50% of the total and is weakly bound. Corticosteroid binding globulin-bound testosterone accounts for about 4% and is weakly bound. Free testosterone represents only 2% to 3% of the total and this is the important part :shock:
*One size does not fit all. Serum testosterone concentrations can vary by more than three orders of magnitude, depending on age, health, and other factors. No test can accurately capture the variation.
*Test technology. Radioimmunoassays, immunoassays, and liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry employ different principles to assess testosterone levels, and all have limitations.
*Lack of standardization. Includes definitions, parameters assessed, and reporting; there is no mandatory quality-control program.


Currently there is a lack of consensus about the definition of "low" testosterone among endocrinologists, urologists, and clinical pathologists. Published ranges for normal are based primarily on measurements in older men and are not designed to establish ranges in men with normal sexual and reproductive function. Normal ranges should be based on testosterone levels derived from a predefined health index population, which currently they are not.


Source reference: http://www.goldjournal.net/article/S0090-4295(13)01611-7/abstract



Interesting post.

I've read similar things form bodybuilders on the web and from guys posting about libido issues.

My problem with your points is that it is hard to find a doctor who can acknowledge those points.

If a standard lab test shows overall testosterone in a normal range most doctors will not consider anything to be wrong and would consider altering hormone levels to be dangerous.

Information like yours would be useful if it could be boiled down to a name of a test to ask for.

Bonus points for how to find a doctor, and a reputable one ( can't emphasize that enough ) who is aware of the issues you mentioned.

I just got back from a urologist. I told him I read on the internet that standard lab tests do not tell the whole testosterone story. He literally said that was "bullshit".

I suspect a lot of doctors think that way, hence my point with having a place to start with the right doctor and the name of something to ask for.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:37 am 
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Finch

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:54 am
Posts: 3
Hello,
I`m a 20 years old guy from Germany.
My height is 6,2 feet. My weight is 192 lbs. BF 15 %.

November 2013 I made a diet and in 6 weeks I put my BF from 16% to 5-7%.
I didn't eat much fat and during the diet I started to feel very bad. I lost my sexdrive and my ejaculate volume sank every day. In December 2013 I nearly didn't produce ejaculate during an orgasm.
But I loved my form at this low BF and so i held the very low BF for 2 more month.

I also worked out very hard. 6 days a week and every day very hard. I felt very bad during the workouts and had not much energy.
In february 2014 I felt so bad, that I went to my doctor.

A bloodtest showed, that my Testosterone levels were very low:
0,9ng/ml (3,3-10)

I realized that the hard diet and the low bodyfat could be the reason for the low T levels.
I started to raise the fats and ate 30% fats from total daily calorie intake.
I paused the workout for 1 Month and after that month I started to workout very easy.
I put on BF and in June 2014 I had a BF of 15 % again.
I felt a bit better.
My T levels in May 2014
1,77 ng/ml (3,3-10)


I went to the doctor again and my test levels were now at 2,45 ng/ml (3,3-10)


My biggest problem is that I still have no sex drive and low ejaculate volume. Before I started the diet I masturbated for 3-4 times a day and produced a lot of cum.
I recover for 7 months now but I still have low t levels and no sex drive plus I feel not very well.
My current BF is 18 %. I think this is a healthy BF and my T levels should be normal again but they aren't. Im loosing hope again.
Currently I work out for 4 days a week and 2 times very easy cardio for 20 minutes.
I think thats not too much.


Will my T levels ever recover ?
Will I ever get my sex drive back ?
How long does it take to reover ?
Do I need TRT ? I really don't want to star TRT. I think my body should recover himself without medicine.

You took tamoxifen. Shall I also try that treatment or wait a bit more ?
Hope you can help me.
Best regards from germany.
Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:11 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:33 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Manchester, UK
If that helps, I lost all sex drive in my 20s when on calorie restriction (<1200 cal/day) for months.
Everything came back to normal when I started to eat more (1800-2000 cal/day).


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