Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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 Post subject: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:47 am 
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Rabbit
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Hi all, i'm a fitness Teacher From France,

I pratice bodybuilding since 2007, whith à lot of animal proteins & whey protein, cutting on low carb high prot diet.
After a lot of research, I'm go vegetarian since january, after big health probleme in cause of lot animal protein comsumption.

Since i've à lot of ernergy et lost bulimia probleme, so i'm very happy of it, i win à lot of lbs on my bar & allways good mood, finish with nervousness & depressions.
So i realise Vegetarien/vegan Diet is very good for me.

My problem is that, since i'm vegetarian, i've lost à lot of strenght,mass.
i've first start by stop all animal protein for 2 month, at that periode my muscle are melt,then i have reintroduce eggs & little quantity of fish in my diet, then i took a little mass.

I would go on a vegetarian diet and thereafter Vegan.


My big interrogation is what do you think about essentials amino acid & deficiency of it on a vegan diet, do you only content of eat a lot of protein or do you count each eaa daily dose? On his book Robert advice to eat a lot but dont really talk about this probleme... Can you give me you opinion & advice

I apologize in advance for my english level, i do better i can, it will be better in the time.

I'm very happy to join ur community, we dont have that in France, so i came Here, and I hope to learn a lot, and you make all also a little better than I can


PS: i read & travel ur forum since 3 weeks & for answer the questions "how improve the forum" I noticed à lot of interessting questions remain unanswered & I find it a pity

sportingly


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:22 pm 
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nobody?

Maybe my english is to bad & you don't understand? tell me friends


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Hello!!!

First welcome!

Second, you are not in unexplored territory as going to a plant-based diet can take a little learning how to diversify up our meals to get all the right nutrients.

Definitely sounds like we have some work to do and you can find a lot of help on this site.

Based on your description, it sounds like you need some changes to your meals to keep up your protein, but maybe more so you are not getting enough calories. It's been written in a few books I've read, that with a calorie sufficient plant-based diet with good variety of items you'll get more than enough protein -- unless you're goal is bodybuilding or extreme workouts, that can take some extra attention.

Because of the calorie content per 'serving' of veg, I might suggest that most of your weight loss and muscle loss was not enough calories. The egg/fish you put back in probably helped with both calories and protein.

So, what might help would to ask what typically you eat in a week for each meal of your day? Then can better help make the small changes needed to help you out.

Interestingly, there have been a few other french questions pop up, and I'll put the links here because then you might get some help with any language barriers.


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36734&p=326394&e=326394


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:53 am 
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Firstly thanks for u response!

I know the topic you give me, i search in all the forum for information, about 3 weeks lol

I actually kick up my Kcal, i'm follow by a Vegantrainer, we slowly restart to begin...
But about essential amino acid, how do you do? count each amino acid?

I understand, à lot of protein whitout good ratio is useless.
So Amino Acids must be balanced in total?

I find it hard to explain, admit the lysine need is about 2g a day, if i have this 2g, can i increase proteins on other amino acid?
Or if i increase proteins, i must increase lysine also?


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:58 pm 
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Welcome to the board.

Personally, I don't count anything. I just eat a lot of whole-foods. I have tried different protein powders, and saw no benefit from any of them. Mostly fruits for energy, non-fruit vegetables for extra nutrients, and occasionally beans, nuts, and legumes. I try to avoid grains.

The whole amino acid balancing theory was debunked a long time ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:23 pm 
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FrenchFitnessGreen wrote:
I actually kick up my Kcal, i'm follow by a Vegantrainer, we slowly restart to begin...


IMO you need to first get the basics under control first. Learn how your body response to just food. I would not even do protein powder at this point. You need to get a good foundation built - eating is most important. Supplementation of essential aminos will just keep your body off balance as you learn and what and when to eat a vegan nutritional lifestyle.

I would just see what protein based foods your body can use easily: tofu, wheat gluten/seiten, beans, spirulina/bluegreen algae, etc.
And the same for carbs and fats. Try to keep them unprocessed as possible, for fresh nutritients that can be used quickly by the body - for working out and recovery.

When you get to know your body well, then try to use protein powders that work for your body (like for me, I do not take in Hemp protein powder - I see it passing right thru me - thus my body doesn't need it in my protein powder). Also introduce the protein powder a little at a time, so you can see how it works, and the body can respond to it slowly (too much protein can be bad for your kidneys in the long run).

I use some supplementation, but I have been doing weightlifting for a long time and know when I need something and when I don't. Find out what works for your body. Try to be clean before introducing something into your body to figure out if it is for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:34 am 
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In fact i dont really speak about supplement but essential amino acids in whole food.
I think i'dont have really understand how function.

I'll try to explain me clearly.

We know vegan diet has a risk of deficiency of some amino acids (lysine, cystein, methionine)
My question is : is there à value of each needed to bring? or the ratio between each must to be respect?

I think the body need about 2g of each essential amino acids a day, if i bring 2g of lysine , 2g of cystein & 4g of methionin (it's only a example) are the 2g more of methionin correctly assimilate ?

Or i must inevitably bring a ratio equal of each?


I hope I explained clearly...


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:39 am 
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You don't need to worry about ratios. If you eat even a small variety of whole foods, your body will bet plenty of all essential amino acids. if you get more of one than you need, your body will either burn or excrete the excess. Everything you hear about protein is just propaganda from the meat, dairy, and egg industry. It has been debunked for decades.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:09 pm 
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Welcome!
I've found that increasing the ratio of raw foods in my diet has helped a lot when trying to put on weight.
If you can find any good raw food books that might be a good place to start.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 12:56 am 
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Cappy wrote:
You don't need to worry about ratios. If you eat even a small variety of whole foods, your body will bet plenty of all essential amino acids. if you get more of one than you need, your body will either burn or excrete the excess. Everything you hear about protein is just propaganda from the meat, dairy, and egg industry. It has been debunked for decades.

+ 1, a varied whole food diet should do the trick, the rest is over-thinking imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:01 am 
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i understand your but there not really answer at my question.
If i want to eat more protein, must i increase all amino acid input

or

when i've my ratio of eaa, i can increase protein with all amino acid source without worrying about the ratio of them?



For example i eat:

buckwheat
Quinoa
Tofu
Tempeh
Almond & nuts

For a total of 80g of protein, if i want to increase protein up to 160, can i do the balance only with vegetable ?

Theory the first 80g bring the EAA & the other 80g of proteins don't must to be Essential amino acid?


What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 12:00 pm 
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I recommend Brendan Braziers Thrive diet books.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:29 pm 
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FrenchFitnessGreen wrote:
If i want to eat more protein, must i increase all amino acid input


I would answer yes to this question. And the increase in protein should be an all around protein intake, with food.

Why I say this, is that you can not really increase muscle mass just by increasing the amino acids. When you train, you are ripping muscle cells (depending on the intensity of training) if you push the weights past your comfort zone and hurt the next day kind of training. And the most important thing is repair/recovery. So you supply ample digested amino acids into the blood stream, but you will need vitamins -and cofactors to help the repair enzymes work - this is where all the other nutrients in food can help out.

Plus when you rip your muscle cells and release the cells stuff inside, your body can recycle it for the repairs - you will only need just a little bit more of everything to repair the muscle cell which will grow in size to repair and make the cell ready to take on more stress. How much more? depends on how well you recycle and what nutrients are available at the time of your own repair.

That is why I said get a good basic foundation of what you need to keep growing. Then when you stall/plateau, then increase something in food (tofu, quinoa, or tempeh - they all have varying amounts of amino acid ratios) and see how your body responds.

Now, if you are working out, and not pushing, and going for endurance, then you are only using the muscle and repair is easy to do and your body can recycle most of it to repair. Fuel is then important for this kind of training.

Sleep is also a requirement for release of growth hormone, which is awesome for repair/recovery.

My massage therapist also tells me that massage is good for releasing growth hormone.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:16 am 
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i've found an interresting article on complete or no complete protein... look at this........... amazing! what to think about??

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/protein.html


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials Amino Acids
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:58 am 
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Hello,

Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, if you are getting enough protein you will be getting enough amino acids. So I wouldn't concentrate so much on the amino acids themselves, just keep up with the amount of protein you are getting.

The website you linked is good. It discusses the myth of combining proteins in a single meal to get a complete protein. I also discuss this in a recent video in made. I also go through a meal plan in that video showing how much food to eat to get various amounts of protein, i think i did one up to 180 grams a day, all from plant sources. It really doesn't require that much food to do this.

I am considering doing another video on amino acids, specially essential amino acids and how they can obtained easily in plant foods, which the website you linked discusses a little as well.

My video is linked on my website on the video page and my website is linked in my signature below. I will be glad to help you come up with a specific meal plan with specific amounts of food to eat for whatever amount of protein you feel you need. Just email me if you want(email also on my website).

_________________
http://www.the-phytoathlete.com/


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