Protein powder comparative amino acid analysis

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joelbct
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#46 Postby joelbct » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:23 pm

Interesting... this is the sum total of what I know about Gemma, from wikipedia and my prior knowledge of supermodels:

Gemma, or Alpha Coronae Borealis, a binary star in the constellation Corona Borealis.

Gemma, An asexual reproductive structure in plants and fungi.

A genus of clam (Gemma) in the family Veneridae; see amethyst gem clam.

Gas phase Electrophoretic Mobility Molecular Analysis (GEMMA), which produces a beam of multiply charged ions by electrospray ionization and transforms them into singly charged ions or neutral particles, separates these particles according to electrophoretic mobility, and records the particle count at each EM.

Gemma Frisius (1508–1555), a Frisian mathematician, cartographer and instrument maker.

Gemma Ward, Australian-born, baby-faced supermodel.


So today I learn, Gemma is also something you can eat, providing an excellent protein profile? What is it? Where does it come from?

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#47 Postby Troy » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:53 pm

joelbct wrote:Gemma is also something you can eat, providing an excellent protein profile? What is it? Where does it come from?


Gemma Protein Isolate Powder is extremely high in Leucine, Arginine, and Glutamine, along with a balanced amino profile. It is clean tasting, and mixes extremely smoothly with a lighter texture than Whey powders.

Gemma Protein Isolate is derived and isolated from peas and its natural protein fraction, which possesses a low level of denaturing and is very soluable (mixes very well). Gemma is NON-GMO, low allergenic and gluten free.

As dairy prices continue to rise, vegetable-based products like the new Gemma Protein will begin to change the protein industry.

The bioavailability of this product is at approximately 90-95%.
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#48 Postby Laura » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:54 pm

That chart is awesome. Thanks for posting it.

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#49 Postby TheLeetOne » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:15 pm

I can't believe that I'm only finding this topic now, haha... this subject is something I've been researching / experimenting with for a long time now. It's funny actually because I have a similar spreadsheet of my own that I put together to compare hemp, rice, and pea (gemma) protein, but I never took it quite to the same extent as Troy's.

There's been too much said already for me to go back and try to reply to each individual post (I'm at work right now), but my understanding is that our general consensus here is correct in assuming that the ideal ratio is more important than the total amount of aminos present per gram of protein powder.

I also found it troubling that there's no real scientific consensus on the ideal amino acid profile for muscle building, but in lack of such a guideline I've been assuming that a combination of 4:3:2 ratio of pea:hemp:rice protein powder is 'ideal' based on the book 'The Thrive Diet' by Brendan Brazier. In the book he vaguely and indirectly mentions his experiments with finding an ideal AA profile lead him to believe that these three together in a similar ratio (I'll have to double-check the ratio, as it's been awhile since I read through the book) formed an exceptional AA profile. I realize this is a really loose assumption, but it's all I've had to work with. It may hold some merit though, as he has a large support base of doctors who help him with his formulations.

Looking forward to seeing more on this topic; thanks for bringing it up, Troy!
Last edited by TheLeetOne on Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#50 Postby veggieprincess » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:32 pm

Troy,

I think true protein needs to start paying us for how much free advertising we give them on this site.

Hey, pure protein sources at an affordable price, available in a food grade bag so I don't have to hurt the environment with plastic containers, create your own flavor combinations.... really, what more could you ask ;)



p.s. thanks for putting this chart together - very helpful. When I'm rich and famous I'm gonna hire you (or maybe you'll get there first, we'll see, ha, ha)
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#51 Postby veggieprincess » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:55 pm

veganpotter wrote:I actually don't even think we need protein powder even as a bodybuilder. If we knew the perfect profile why not eat the food to get it.


Alot of people probably could get away with eating the food. But it really would depend on your goals.

Bodybuilders, fitness and figure competitors are usually focused on the proper macro-nutrient breakdown as well as low glycemic carbs and healthy fats. But alot of attention is paid to caloric intake as well. Lets take a typical non-endurance female who is looking to drop fat and sculpt her body. If she were to try to get the Protein requirement through just the food soucres, the calories and carbs would usually be way over the top to get her to the fat loss and esthetic look that she wants.

So if a man burns 3000 to 4000 calories a day, he might be able to get away with just eating the actual food. But when people are looking to sculpt, reshape or significantly cut bodyfat, the calories would often be too high. That is where Protein Powders come in most handy. It's the easiest way to count the grams and create a plan that is meant to be kept within a certain amount of Calories, Protein, Carbs and Fat.
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#52 Postby veganpotter » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:36 am

I wouldn't go as far as pure counting since these generalizations don't really work. Tons of people sculpt and cut for various things(boxing, gymnasts, wrestlers...all of whom tend to be as big of Natural body builders without that as a goal) and do it with hard work and not so much of a focus on carb cutting and protein loading. It all seems relatively useless to me of those people eat well. Plain and simple...most relatively muscular men that are say 200lbs...would function lifting on 2800-3000 to maintain mass. If they doubled that every day(which isn't that hard for most) in terms of protein calories and lift accordingly they'd gain 1lbs of muscle a day and burn fat in the process. The measurement game really only makes sense if you weigh what comes out of you too. If you measured the amino acid content of your crap I'd think you'd find it would come pretty close to the extra powder you threw into your shakes...outside of the relatively small amount of muscle a human can actually gain in a day.

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#53 Postby Zack » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:43 am

veganpotter wrote: If you measured the amino acid content of your crap I'd think you'd find it would come pretty close to the extra powder you threw into your shakes...


Amino acids are not pooped out.

Excess protein is turned to sugars/fatty acids, and the nitrogen from it is ultimately eliminated in urine.
Last edited by Zack on Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#54 Postby veganpotter » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:47 am

If amino acids aren't pooped out then there would be no bacteria in our poop. Bacteria is made up mainly of amino acids outside of their water content. If there is no bacteria in my poop then I invite you to eat some.

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#55 Postby Zack » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:56 am

veganpotter wrote:If amino acids aren't pooped out then there would be no bacteria in our poop. Bacteria is made up mainly of amino acids outside of their water content. If there is no bacteria in my poop then I invite you to eat some.


Your responses are so goofy. But I do believe you are right.

Anyone who feels like diving into the world of amino acids in poop.

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/176/1/89.pdf
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#56 Postby veganpotter » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:03 am

Yes my answers are goofy but I think that has a lot to do with my poop having less amino acid laden bacteria....since I likely have less waste relative to my total intake of calories.

Not saying my poop is clean or anything but I think very few people here can actually use 100g of protein(DEFINITELY nobody under 200lbs unless they do highly explosive movements with a lot of reps). If we did...we'd find a lot of people here gaining 5-8lbs of muscle every single month, and wouldn't find a peak so soon in their progression. Anyhow they may use 70g at the very most...and the rest basically keeps you full to prevent hunger...thus allowing you to not eat carbs. It does the trick but the same thing would happen from not eating that protein at all if you could control yourself in the refrigerator.

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#57 Postby veggieprincess » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:05 am

veganpotter wrote:I wouldn't go as far as pure counting since these generalizations don't really work.


Choosing whole, clean food sources ALONG WITH counting and measuring portions of calories, protein, fat, carbs and factoring this in with your age, height, weight, gender and activity level are EXACTLY what work for the dozens of Figure Competitors and bodybuilders I've ever talked to. At least for stage, that is.

To completely ignore this fact is just plain disrespectful to all the trainers out there who have been designing programs and putting men and women on stage for decades.

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#58 Postby Zack » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:07 am

I still don't like the analogy that the extra protein from the powders is pooped out, read that study i posted, it states that the amino acid content of poop is relatively consistent.

Anyways...

I don't think 1g/lb is needed, but I don't think a ridiculously low number is enough. I like a healthy medium.
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#59 Postby veganpotter » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:18 am

Really though...most of it has to be waste. Otherwise everyone that eats excess protein and lifts weights would never meet a stumbling block with growth, regardless of age, or how long you've been training. Sure genetics have a role...but if your genetics say you'll never be 230lbs in muscular form...then where does all that extra protein you eat go??? You don't sweat it out...it must go somewhere.

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#60 Postby Zack » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:31 am

I think it depends on how much we're talking about. Proteins are used in more than just muscle, so who knows how much someone needs. I generally seem to eat until I've had about 120 grams of protein, once in a while more than that. That was before I started using powders, so I stick around that number. I have no problems gaining on that. I'm actually gaining fairly fast as some have seen. :)

I watch my protein levels because ammonia is a byproduct of protein digestion, assuming your liver is functioning well, this isn't much to worry about, but still potentially damaging.

Excess protein is not necessary or good, determining how much you need? Who knows.
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