Soy/Whey Testosterone study

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kickassmuscle
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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#31 Postby kickassmuscle » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:16 am

I prefer Soy, way healthy and better than the rest. Just my 2 cents :)

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#32 Postby cuBuwu » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:52 am

beforewisdom wrote:From what I have seen of the soy hysteria, protein powders would seem to be the worst, so if those do not have adverse effects natural soy foods are less likely too.

I was perusing a forum I usually no longer read. A nutrition major who has been vegan and taking large amounts of soy protein powder daily for two years ( about 170 grams )went to his doctor and insisted on having blood work for all of the boogey man substances people try to scare vegans with.

All of his nutrients were high.

His estrogen levels were low normal for a man his age.

His testosterone levels were high normal for a man his age.

Years ago when such things still worried me I got PMed a similar account from a middle aged weight lifting buff who went and had his hormones measured after years of heavily hitting the soy. Sure enough, everything came back normal.

It isn't the best thing in the world to eat extracts instead of whole foods, nor is it good to not get variety. However, I think the anti-soy stuff is hype.

Soy Beans.....yes, even the straight beans taste great. They are a wealth of nutrition beyond just protein. They are also CHEAP and CHEAP compared to foods offering similar level of individual nutrients. Soy is a real threat to livestock and dairy producers, both of which have loads of money to fund FUD.

I have tempeh, soy beans, or tofu 2-3 times a week.

I am going to enjoy them from now on without any doubt.


Yeah, I agree with you generally, though I have to say that I think GM soy is a different thing entirely. I read a few studies and it appears that the protein molecules get all twisted up and messed around when they genetically modify them and that makes them extremely hard to digest. Obviously, things which are extremely hard to digest are not a good idea to eat on a regular basis. However, that said, I dont see a problem with eating non GM soy and it's what I normally take as its currently the only non-animal protein available in Spain. I haven't had any problems with it and I do like the taste, but I haven't had noticable results and I have also been concerned about the way they pack artificial sweetners and flavours into it!! I dont know if its the same in the US but here, every soy protein powder is full of other nasties! Well, to combat that, I've finally got a group of people together from my gym, who eat meat, but are willing to go in on a bulk shipment for pea protein from the UK and that's gonna work out at less than 10 euros a kilo so I'm very happy! I like to combine my proteins and as I take soy milk, soy yoghurt, soy cream, textured soya protein etc in my everyday diet, well I don't want to take soy protein supplements too! I've read, and I'm sure that you know better than I do, that soy has an inhibitor of a certain amino acid (not sure which one off hand) which is very important for muscle growth...from what I've read, pea protein however, has a much better amino acid profile..anyway I'll let you know how I get on with the pea protein ;-) But to sum up, I dont think soy is bad for your health, just personally, it hasn't delivered results for me.

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Re: Re:

#33 Postby xzebrasx » Sun May 31, 2009 3:53 pm

cuBuwu wrote:I've read, and I'm sure that you know better than I do, that soy has an inhibitor of a certain amino acid (not sure which one off hand) which is very important for muscle growth...


Is there any truth to this claim? I've read it in some articles a couple of times, but I'm not sure whether it's true or not.

xzebrasx

Re: Re:

#34 Postby xzebrasx » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:06 pm

xzebrasx wrote:Is there any truth to this claim? I've read it in some articles a couple of times, but I'm not sure whether it's true or not.


Found the answer myself:

Soy and anti-nutrients: Trypsin inhibitors? Phytic acid? No, these aren't characters from the new Shrek movie. These are anti-nutrients found in soy foods. The good news is that they're deactivated by cooking and fermentation. So, consumed cooked and fermented soy foods won't inhibit protein and mineral absorption.

Also, phytic acid may have anti-cancer properties.


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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#35 Postby Oatsandpotatoes » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:06 am

This is bullshit, I don't even trust most of the studies done in the U.S. on Soy. It's corporate America, they tell you what makes them money, for years they have been telling us milk makes your bones stronger, well why the hell are so many many women getting diagnosed with osteoporosis. Why are so many women needing hip replacements now. Bullshit, look at the studies done in U.K at Oxford university. All the estrogen they pump into beef is what's giving so many boys bitch tits and making girls hit puberty at 9 or even 8. All nonsense. Soy will always be healthier than beef or milk or any other meat.

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#36 Postby CollegeB » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:40 pm

I'm sure there is an amount of soy that is bad for you, I just haven't reached it yet.

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#37 Postby MikeB » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:24 pm

This truly is an important issue to keep a close eye on . I use pea protien and drink rice milk . Im guessing too much of anything might cause health problems , even soy .

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#38 Postby Neven » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:51 am

DavidBVegan wrote:Wow, now the mystery is finally solved for me. Soy mustve given me the "gay" too. Next you will tell us that roids will make us straight again. :)

If I go gay I'll go for steroids. :lol:

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#39 Postby aryan » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:57 am

Oh my God, I just ate two full things of tofu and now I'm feeling strong urges to look at naked pictures of guys on the Interwebz WHAT IS GOING ON!!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!?!!!!1 HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#40 Postby seitan_man » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:38 pm

How about the claim that soy isn't in fact a complete protein as it has limited amounts of a couple essential amino acids? This tends to be written quite often.

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#41 Postby Fallen_Horse » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:14 am

"...the analytical method that is universally recognized by the FAO/WHO (1990) as well as the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), United States Department of Agriculture, United Nations University (UNU) and the National Academy of Sciences when judging the quality of protein is Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, as it is viewed as accurately measuring the correct relative nutritional value of animal and vegetable sources of protein in the diet.[12][13] Based on this method, soy protein is considered to have a similar equivalent in protein quality to animal proteins. Egg white has a score of 1.00, beef 0.92, isolated soy protein 0.92, and soy concentrate 0.99. In 1990 at an FAO/WHO meeting, it was decided that proteins having values higher than 1.0 would be rounded or "leveled down" to 1.0 as scores above 1.0 are considered to indicate that the protein contains essential amino acids in excess of the human requirements.[14]

Another measure of a protein's use in nutrition is the Biological Value scale. The Biological Value method, which dates back to 1911, relies on nitrogen retention as a measurement of protein quality. Soybean protein isolate has a biological value of 74. [15]. Whole soybean has a biological value of 96, and soy milk 91. [16]"


Straight from the Wiki's mouth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_protein#Biological_value_of_soy_protein
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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#42 Postby vegimator » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:26 pm

seitan_man wrote:How about the claim that soy isn't in fact a complete protein as it has limited amounts of a couple essential amino acids? This tends to be written quite often.


I've never heard that. Check out this amino acid score - http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legu ... cts/4389/2

It's also nearly tied with beef in the PDCAAS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDCAAS#PDC ... of_protein

I do think there's some legitimate concern about the phytic acid and lectins though but both of these are nullified if you eat fermented or sprouted soy. Between Wildwood's sprouted tofu and tempeh/miso, there are lots of retail options at least for people in the states.

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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#43 Postby awaken375 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:29 am

There's no reason to not have 7 different jugs of complete protein of various sources. Soy on sunday, pea on tuesday, hemp on wednesday, spirulina on thursday, goji berry or rice on friday, wheat on saturday, anybody?
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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#44 Postby ICanDoThis » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:14 am

Oatsandpotatoes wrote:This is bullshit, I don't even trust most of the studies done in the U.S. on Soy. It's corporate America, they tell you what makes them money, for years they have been telling us milk makes your bones stronger, well why the hell are so many many women getting diagnosed with osteoporosis. Why are so many women needing hip replacements now. Bullshit, look at the studies done in U.K at Oxford university. All the estrogen they pump into beef is what's giving so many boys bitch tits and making girls hit puberty at 9 or even 8. All nonsense. Soy will always be healthier than beef or milk or any other meat.


The milk / dairy thing all came to light in The China Study by Dr. Colin Campbell. The baisc question asked was, "why do Chinese women who don't eat dairy not get osteoporosis whereas American woman do?"

You're right about the estrogen and hormones in meat too. If cows are injected with hormones like estrogen so they can produce more milk, etc., then it follows there will be an effect on humans. It's no different than dumping chemicals into our water supply then expecting to drink clean water.
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Re: Soy/Whey Testosterone study

#45 Postby powelifter » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:49 am

Its really the dairy and meat industry that spread so much crap about soya in my opinion.

Phytoestrogens always get the blame, the crazy part is many other commonly ate foods contain phytoestrogens do they make everyone gay too. People really dont understand phytoestrogens either, they are weak acting estrogens which block the receptor sites up so more harmful estrogens arent absorbed.


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