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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:55 am 
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Manatee
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I've had the egg argument with many many vegans...I think that if there is some symbiosis going on, ie the chickens are protected, looked after well and fed and allowed to live a normal life, then there is no problem eating their unfertilized eggs.
In these specific circumstances, while it may not "technically" be vegan I consider it to be "ethically" vegan..which is what I personally think is the most important :wink:
Please don't argue with me about this anyone! You can't change my mind as I've thought about this issue many times and still agree with myself LOL. When I lived in the countryside, we kept chickens. They were allowed full run of the grounds during the day and were put in their pen at night. If they had been living in the wild, most of them would have probably been killed by predators. When they stopped laying the chickens were kept as pets and allowed to die naturally from old age. I ate their eggs and STILL called myself vegan, because I felt I got as much benefit from my relationship with the chickens as they got from me and was IN NO WAY, involved in animal exploitation. I also wanted to make a point. For me, veganism isn't about following a set of dietry rules which "define" you as a vegan. Vegan is an ethical choice and if you live ethically then you can call yourself vegan, even if you do eat eggs! I've always been a bit of an anarquist so that explains why I hate stupid, "blanket" rules such as "no eggs". If the eggs are ethically produced I for one, would still consider you to be a vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:12 am 
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I can't believe I really have to state such an obvious fact, but eating eggs is never vegan. I don't think eating eggs in the circumstances described above means that you're a bad person, but it does mean that you aren't/weren't vegan. Of course as vegans in a very non-vegan world we all have to make comprimises at times (e.g. medication) but some issues like what we choose to eat are just black & white.

Surely the whole underlying ethos of veganism is that speciesism is wrong and that non-human animals do not exist to provide humans with food, clothes, entertainment etc. By consuming eggs you are completely undermining this principle and also reinforcing the notion that all vegans are looking for excuses to consume animal products because our diet is deficient.


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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Manatee
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Like I said..I dont agree with you and I never will.

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Location: eh?
I like your outlook Ruz

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:21 pm 
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No 2 ways about it: Ovo-vegetarian
I don't argue with the fact that you or I have the right to call (categorize) ourselves anyway we choose.
But the truth is the truth.
You want me to think of you as a vegan who eats egg?
I'm OK with that, what ever makes you happy.

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:17 pm
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Location: NORTHERN Canada...
Ruz wrote:
I've had the egg argument with many many vegans...I think that if there is some symbiosis going on, ie the chickens are protected, looked after well and fed and allowed to live a normal life, then there is no problem eating their unfertilized eggs.
In these specific circumstances, while it may not "technically" be vegan I consider it to be "ethically" vegan..which is what I personally think is the most important :wink:
Please don't argue with me about this anyone! You can't change my mind as I've thought about this issue many times and still agree with myself LOL. When I lived in the countryside, we kept chickens. They were allowed full run of the grounds during the day and were put in their pen at night. If they had been living in the wild, most of them would have probably been killed by predators. When they stopped laying the chickens were kept as pets and allowed to die naturally from old age. I ate their eggs and STILL called myself vegan, because I felt I got as much benefit from my relationship with the chickens as they got from me and was IN NO WAY, involved in animal exploitation. I also wanted to make a point. For me, veganism isn't about following a set of dietry rules which "define" you as a vegan. Vegan is an ethical choice and if you live ethically then you can call yourself vegan, even if you do eat eggs! I've always been a bit of an anarquist so that explains why I hate stupid, "blanket" rules such as "no eggs". If the eggs are ethically produced I for one, would still consider you to be a vegan.



In term of what society defines vegan obviously youd be considered "wrong"( i cant stand labels).I tend to agree with you and I litterally see and feed and communicate with the chickens that I eat the eggs from.And till someone lives in an area were its litterally minus 40 for 6 months of the year then I could care less what their opinion is.And to say say it's torture/inhumane and all that,when I know how the animals are treated so good is a joke In my opinion..

But as always to each there own.

Thx for the replies!

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Rabbit
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What would the chicken do with an unfertilized egg, anyhow? Are you taking something from them that they wouldn't choose on their own to let go of? No.

Like eating an apple that's fallen off the tree.

I'm not saying I personally eat eggs anymore, but I agree with Ruz that there is nothing unethical about it under certain circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Manatee
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Thanks Ellie.
I don't eat eggs either, but I see veganism as "ethical eating" and not a list of what you can and can't eat.
I know many vegans who would shudder at the thought of eating eggs from "pet" chickens, but then purchase many unethically produced foods from the supermarket, which exploit people in the third world, or damage the environment etc
I think people need to think about what veganism means to them.
You don't award someone the title "vegan", that's just more of that "holier than thou" crap which some vegans like to spurt and which makes ALL carnivores HATE vegans and NEVER helped spread our message either!
This guy is living in harmony with his environment and isn't exploiting animals!! He is an ethical eater and so a "vegan" in my book.
I could, afterall, argue that any vegan out there who is a pet owner, is ALSO exploiting animals..I dont see much difference really. Both species receive positive benefits from the relationship.
Some of you need to see the larger picture :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:49 pm 
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Rabbit
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Ruz wrote:
Thanks Ellie...
You don't award someone the title "vegan", that's just more of that "holier than thou" crap which some vegans like to spurt and which makes ALL carnivores HATE vegans and NEVER helped spread our message either!

...Some of you need to see the larger picture :wink:


Exactly. I have had MANY conversations with vegans/vegetarians about the difference between POSITIVELY encouraging and motivating a person, and BULLYING them. No one ever changed because they were bullied.

In fact, the way motivation and ambivalence works, it actually strengthens their resolve NOT to change.

So yeah, big picture folks :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:38 am 
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Stegosaurus
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The bigger picture is you can't have it both ways.
Look I don't care what you think, or call yourself, or me, or anyone else. But a rose is still a rose...
Besides those chicken eggs would be fertilized if you would be less cruel and have a cock around. Seems cruel to me to keep them in an unnatural environment with out the opposite sex.
But like I said I will think of you as you would want to be thought of. I'm good with that.
A pig is not a cow just because you glue horns on his head.
You want it your way, why because you like the label to fit you, and not you fit the label, so don't give me that holier than thou I don't like labels stuff. Labels are necessary. Because how else can you talk about something without giving it a name that most can agree on. Seems like communication would be darn near impossible.
I'm not here to argue, just giving my rational as I see it.

It's like a wannabe who doesn't really want to be.
Please don't take this to heart,
I still love you!
We all have a right to an opinion.
Just giving mine.
Consciously eating eggs on a regular basis seems a little outside the box.
Ovo-Vegetarian,
now
Get over it.
No one is condemning you.

_________________

Happiness is a personal choice!
I am the sole source of all my sadness and joy.


"The logic of worldly success rests on a
fallacy: the strange error that our perfection
depends on the thoughts and
opinions and applause of other men."
Source: Thomas Merton


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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:22 am 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:40 am
Posts: 15
Location: Alexandria, VA
Vegan Joe wrote:
I'm not here to argue, just giving my rational as I see it.

It's like a wannabe who doesn't really want to be.
Please don't take this to heart,
I still love you!
We all have a right to an opinion.
Just giving mine.
Consciously eating eggs on a regular basis seems a little outside the box.
Ovo-Vegetarian,
now
Get over it.
No one is condemning you.


1st, I think you mean "rationale," not rational.

2nd, you clearly ARE here to argue, because she already told you that she has put a lot of thought into this opinion and isn't about to change her mind.

3rd, we've already said we don't personally advocate eggs, so the entire premise of your argument is a fallacy.

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:49 am 
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Stegosaurus
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Ellie Moondog wrote:
1st, I think you mean "rationale," not rational.

Jeeze not another spelling Nazi? You do know what I meant don't you? If criticizing my spelling make you feel more intelligence or validates your point then I'm happy for you and your intelligence.

Ellie Moondog wrote:
2nd, you clearly ARE here to argue, because she already told you that she has put a lot of thought into this opinion and isn't about to change her mind.

Look, if you give her the right to her opinion, then why aren't you giving me mine?
Don't try to label me. :lachmal:

Ellie Moondog wrote:
3rd, we've already said we don't personally advocate eggs, so the entire premise of your argument is a fallacy.

OK lets all say it together:
Ovo-Vegetarian!
Now don't you feel better,
or are you arguing for vegan?
You're becoming defensive.

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Happiness is a personal choice!
I am the sole source of all my sadness and joy.


"The logic of worldly success rests on a
fallacy: the strange error that our perfection
depends on the thoughts and
opinions and applause of other men."
Source: Thomas Merton


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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:01 am 
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Manatee
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Some people just LOVE thier rules. I'll give you an example: Where i live, if the little green man isn't flashing at the zebra crossing, people stand and wait. It doesn't matter if there aren't any cars for MILES...they stand and wait because that's what the little red man is telling them to do! So now, they are unable to cross the road for themselves.
It amazes me how and why people act in this way, but putting a list of eating rules to veganism, which in my opinion is more of a philosophy, is stupid. Its like you dont trust people to eat ethically, dont credit them with enough intelligence and therefore make a list of do's and dont's to decide whether to allow someone into your little club. I dont need your stupid list in the same way as I dont need to wait for the green man to tell me when to cross the road. I look, and if there are no cars, I cross.
Don't be the idiot who waits on the curb because you blindly follow rules without using your own judgement.
The biggest destinction between a vegeterian and a vegan is that of philosophy. Vegans are anti-speciesists and vegeterians are not. Veggies think they do have the right to use animals, but not kill them. Vegans are a whole ofher story, as you should know. So, if you are going to use your crappy, anal, labels on individuals, label him a "vegan who eats eggs", not a "ovo-vegeterian", which he clearly isn't. I'm worried about what matters here, and that's speciesism, not some anal list of do's and don'ts.

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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:46 am 
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Stegosaurus
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And the wining continues.
Guess your pig will always be a cow to you.
Have it your way.
Vegans eat eggs, because they can. :lachmal:
Guess I'll see you at the oyster bar soon. :lachmal:
Anal is chickens on the tundra without a cock. :D
Speciesismm is having your cake and your omelet too.

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Happiness is a personal choice!
I am the sole source of all my sadness and joy.


"The logic of worldly success rests on a
fallacy: the strange error that our perfection
depends on the thoughts and
opinions and applause of other men."
Source: Thomas Merton


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 Post subject: Re: My last pic being Vegan...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:33 am 
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Manatee
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whatever... :|

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