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 Post subject: please read this - urgent
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:12 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Copied and pasted from College B's post because my blood pressure SKYROCKETED when I read this. This is one of the most ignorrant things I have ever read. :evil: you BET I will be sending this "feminist" - what a joke - an email. if you all do the same, be sure you are polite, and that your arguments are persuasive and supported with data. YOu dont want to prove her right!!!

Is there any way that we could send in actual comments to this Guardian paper insteaof just sending her an email?

"Yeah so this is my blog on bb.com...anyhow I got this link and its to an article of why this lady hates vegetarians. I wrote her an email countering some of her points, maybe some of you would like to do the same. These uppity femenists really drive me crazy HaHa! http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 27,00.html

Ohh yeah and don't appologize to her for her bad experiences. Nobody here did anything to this lady, and it would be like the muslims appologizing for 9/11 when they didnt do anything. She also never really specifies vegetarian or vegan, so maybe letting her know there is a difference would be good, i really didnt point that out. Or jsut dont bother her, whatever you want to do, it is your time, your life. "
-Brian
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:22 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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This is what she says - i figured i would just post it here. I am beyind appalled. I will post my response to her on here so you all can read it. But what I want to know is how to you contact this newspaper?
Why I hate vegetarians

People should not be bullied into giving up meat by humourless, judgmental souls using spurious arguments

Julie Bindel
Monday June 13, 2005
The Guardian

Eating in a meat-free restaurant the other day made me realise why I hate vegetarians. The food, unlike the tasteless, bland rubbish often served up in such places, was delicious. Unusually for meatless cuisine, it had flavour and texture, and had even been seasoned. What was unpalatable were the customers and waiting staff, all of whom seemed to believe that what they were eating made them superior. They all looked smug and self-satisfied. It brought it home to me that most vegetarians - and I am largely excluding those who eschew meat for religious and cultural reasons - give themselves a bad name. They are better than you, don't you know? The atmosphere in the restaurant was one of pompous aloofness. I left with indigestion.

Article continues

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People often assume I don't eat meat, because I am a feminist and vaguely of the left. I have turned up at dinner parties to find the host has assumed that at least one guest would be vegetarian, and served undercooked baked potatoes. What an atrocity! Why can they not put a chicken in the oven at the same time? Or is the sight of meat so offensive to veggies that they would pass out at the table?
Recent converts can be the worst. I have lost friends to the cult who, once they get fed the mantra from the militants, become something akin to ex-smokers. I am tired of feeling self-conscious in restaurants when ordering meat in front of them. No one should deny that factory-farmed animals are kept in the most appalling conditions, and that eating too much meat is bad for you. But look at their claims. Crusaders promote vegetarianism not only as healthy but as a solution to world hunger and a safeguard of the planet.

Do not assume living without animal products is always a positive, healthy choice. A vegan couple in American have recently been charged with child abuse for malnourishing their three small children. They had been brought up on a vegan diet from birth. There have been similar cases where children, who cannot choose what they eat, have had their health severely damaged because of their parents' principles. They are putting the welfare of animals before that of their children. Giving up meat and dairy has been linked to anorexia and other eating disorders in teenage girls. Lack of vitamin B12, found mainly in meats, eggs, dairy and fish, can cause brain damage. Most vegans, and some non-meat-eaters, have to supplement their diet with pills. In the developed world, vegetarianism is a privileged choice. How many working-class vegetarians do you know? It is not an option for most poor people in this country.

A veggie colleague once said of a woman with her three young children in a supermarket, "Have you seen those cheap beefburgers and pies she's feeding them? Why does she not go to the market, buy some fresh vegetables and make them all some nice, healthy soup?" Again that assumption that vegetarian and vegan foods are cheaper, which they are not, and that the mother had all the time in the world to prepare food from scratch.

Let's get our priorities right. People who put foxes and lambs before people do not have my vote. Animal liberationists blowing up scientists for conducting experiments that might lead to a cure for cancer are odious. There are more refuge spaces for cats than there are for women and their children fleeing domestic violence. While rape crisis centres are closing due to lack of funds, animal charities are raking it in.

Although vegetarianism is often seen as a "women's issue", there is a nasty, misogynistic wing that relies on sexist images and messages to convince people that meat is murder. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Peta) are the worst offenders. One of their early adverts features a woman dragging a fur coat behind her. She is captioned as a "dumb animal". Another has a woman having her fur coat ripped off in the street and clubbed to death by a man, to make the point that it is not nice to be killed for your coat. The actor who played Lolita in the 1997 remake became "the youngest star to pose naked for Peta's anti-fur campaign". The message is: treat women, not animals, like meat.

Those who think we should not eat meat because all life is sacred are naive. Would they be happy allowing mosquitoes to spread malaria, or having rats run loose in their home? Not all creatures are equal. There are natural hierarchies in the food chain.

People should be allowed to make their own choices and not be bullied or frightened into giving up meat. In the US recently, children in a secondary school were taken by their teachers to a slaughterhouse to show them how animals are killed for food. This tactic is a form of mind control, as unethical as discouraging young girls from having sex by making them watch a difficult childbirth.

I may hate vegetarians because they make me feel guilty, or because, meat being so delicious, they must have lots of willpower. But as an animal lover who agrees in principle with most reasons for giving up meat, I would rather not join that band of humourless, judgmental souls. It would seem that you are indeed what you eat.

· Julie Bindel is the founder of Justice for Women

juliebindel@yahoo.co.uk


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:49 pm 
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Rabbit
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Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Wow. It's incredible how a such an educated person could say such stupid and ignorant things. It's definitely cool that she was part of forming Justice for Women, but she's way off on this issue.

One comment (among many) that caught my eye was this one:
Quote:
How many working-class vegetarians do you know? It is not an option for most poor people in this country.


I was raised in a working-class environment and now that I'm living off a student loan I'm poorer than ever. It's actually quite easy to make healthy vegan meals if you're on a tight budget, I would think that a (healthy) meat/dairy diet would be more costly. Cheese is so expensive these days.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:56 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Hi taylor,

It would be great if you could email that too her. And I am sorry but how could something so ignorant call herself a feminist and be involved with Justice For Women. I havent been this sickened by something that I have read in a long time, and this b$#tch needs to be given the facts about the link between diet and world hunger. and fir her to not know the environemntally devastating effects of raising animals for food - well, all i can say is what planet is she from?

To everybody: please send this woman polite responses about your experiences and support them with facts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:32 pm 
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Elephant

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I almost think why bother even sending her messages. She really is jsut trying to be inflamatory probably to get publicity. Notice she says she feels guilty for eating meat in front of people. She really just wants that to end she wants those who have a conscience to just go away. Really that is an odd thing to admit on paper.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:35 pm 
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Elephant

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I've got an article by a hunter who other meat eaters lambast since he kills animals, he points out though that atleast he has the nerve to kill the things he eats. The people that put him down like oprah and tom green, bill mahr, all eat meat, but they buy it at the store...maybe free range but you all know that really has no meaning since it has no standards. Take a read if you like...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/fontova/fontova51.html This guy did attack tofu but had to make a retract what he said... Though i dont think you will turn him from hunting or whatever. He is on the ted nuggent level of idiocy and insecurity so you probably cant reach whatever kind of reasoning faculty he uses.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:49 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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Here are some words of wisdom from Dazed and Confused and its goin out to the lady who hates vegetarians/vegans (she never really specified since she drew vegans into this)...."Don't let your mouth write a check your butt can't cash"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:59 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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Here is something I think that lady who hates vegetarians should read. Its about vegetarians in the women's suffrage movement.

http://www.triangle.co.uk/pdf/viewpdf.a ... 120.252.82


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:14 am 
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Stegosaurus

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hey College B!!

Actually I need to wrote a legal research paper on this topic so thanks for that link. You did some of the research for my paper for me!! If anybody comes across any articles on this topic of feminism and veganism/veg, please post the link here on this thread.


:D

College B, I think you should send her this link.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:42 pm 
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Elephant

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I actually have 2 more and some guy you can contact....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:42 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/next-33.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:43 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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http://www.fnsa.org/v1n4/murti1.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:45 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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I wrote Vasu Murti an email last night, he responded quickly. That lady that hates vegetarians still has not written me back. I think I hate all femenists now. They are full of rightousness, and view themselves as above criticism.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:40 pm 
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Elephant
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a lady named mary on the veganfitness.net board wrote to the lady and she quickly responded and was very apologetic. i expect she recieves a number of emails about that article, so she may take her time to reply.

jonathan

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:28 pm 
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Elephant
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Location: Norfolk, VA
compassionategirl wrote:
hey College B!!

Actually I need to wrote a legal research paper on this topic so thanks for that link. You did some of the research for my paper for me!! If anybody comes across any articles on this topic of feminism and veganism/veg, please post the link here on this thread.


:D

College B, I think you should send her this link.


Natalie I would love to read this when you're done. Have you read the sexual politics of meat? that might give you some good research, i havent read it yet but its about feminism and vegetarianism and how they are related.

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