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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Richard wrote:
Are you aiming to be as big as Avi? Awesome! Get us some pics to show your progress


Dude, he is my fricken vegan hero! Look at the size of those shoulder boulders! Dat chest too!


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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:51 pm 
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A lot of legumes and grain contain phylates. That's not soy specific. A lot of other foods contain one or more of the phytoestrogens. That's not soy specific as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:34 am 
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wispyman wrote:
Richard wrote:
Are you aiming to be as big as Avi? Awesome! Get us some pics to show your progress


Dude, he is my fricken vegan hero! Look at the size of those shoulder boulders! Dat chest too!

Yeah, he is awesome. How close are you to your goal right now?

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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:27 pm 
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wispyman wrote:
but what about Derek Tresize?


If you look at Derek's diet log... he has soy-milk and tofu 3-4 times per day

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=2

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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:53 am 
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Richard wrote:
wispyman wrote:
Richard wrote:
Are you aiming to be as big as Avi? Awesome! Get us some pics to show your progress


Dude, he is my fricken vegan hero! Look at the size of those shoulder boulders! Dat chest too!

Yeah, he is awesome. How close are you to your goal right now?


Uhh....give me 10 years and we'll see hehe. My max stats are as follows in lbs:

Bench: 195
Squat: 245
Deadlift: 275
Overhead Press: 135


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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:03 am 
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Mufflon wrote:
A lot of legumes and grain contain phylates. That's not soy specific. A lot of other foods contain one or more of the phytoestrogens. That's not soy specific as well.



But they are easily removed by cooking unlike soy. With soy you have to ferment it in order to rid of the massive more amount of chemicals in it. It's a unique bean indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:08 am 
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I eat soy and dont have testosterone issues. Im wondering if the whole soy testosterone thing is a bit hype.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:41 pm 
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lohungfong wrote:
I eat soy and dont have testosterone issues. Im wondering if the whole soy testosterone thing is a bit hype.


I am beginning to wonder about that too. People with thyroid issues do need to take their soy intake into consideration. Anecdotal accounts are not knowledge of any kind, but I have seen so many posts from vegan fitness enthusiasts who chow down on soy, went to an MD, had their T levels were checked and who got clean bills of health. I've been eating soy for over 30 years and haven't had a problem. Last year, I even read posts from women with thyroid problems who still eat soy. They just told their doctors who adjusted their meds and even they don't have any problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:47 pm 
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wispyman wrote:
Ok, update time.

So I went ahead and did a second blood test as my doctor requested it to confirm if I was having T troubles. Turns out it was much higher this time (435 ng), so he no longer can provide treatment as it is in normal levels now.


That settles it, you don't have a problem. Congratulations.


Quote:
kenny: Asians do not eat as much soy as you think actually.


Not true:

http://beforewisdom.com/blog/soy/but-as ... ot-of-soy/

http://beforewisdom.com/blog/soy/the-so ... eally-eat/

Aside from 1-2 years in college I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years. In my experience, the more restrictive I make my diet the quicker those restrictions break down and I eat much worse than if I would have given myself some slack.

You got medical results back stating that you do not have a testosterone problem.

Cut yourself a break and let yourself use soy.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:25 am 
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I think soy is Ok for most people in moderation although what has been said about it causing bitch tits and the like is true and there have been many documented cases, but only in people taking in HUGE amounts of concentrated soy protein every day.
There are a lot of fors and againsts about soy but one thing that can't be denied is that unless its a fermented soy product, the structure of the protein molecule makes it incredibly hard to digest for most humans. I particularly have a bad time digesting soy, and while I can tolerate small amounts, like in my tea for example, if I have more than a drop of soy milk, it makes me really ill.
However, of course it's possible to be vegan without soy,but I'm also allergic to gluten so that makes things all the more complicated. It's OK for people to say you can prepare this dish, or the other..but if you don't have time? What then? What about the people who have two jobs and the single parents? What about people on low incomes who simply can't afford the more expensive pre-prepared vegan foods? What about people who live in places where there are no pre-prepared vegan products available? What about people who have to cook for fussy kids and don't have time to hang around and force them to eat it?
Sometimes we have to compromise and do the best we can in any given situation.
My solution after a lot of thought was to stop being officially "vegan" and start eating eggs again. I'm lucky because we have REALLY free range eggs for sale where I live and I've seen how the chickens are cared for and I don't have any problems eating their eggs because I don't feel the chickens are being exploited, just that there is some really cool symbiosis going on.
So hey, now I can't call myself vegan any more..according to other vegans. But I still consider myself a vegan because being a vegan, for me, never consisted of a list of foods I could eat or not eat. It was about eating to avoid animal cruelty, and I don't feel I've compromised my personal ethics by starting to eat eggs again.
I'm not encouraging you to do what I've done, I'm just sharing with you and letting you know that you're not the only vegan to have allergies, and an intolerance to soy can cause SEVERE health problems, so do what you need to do to protect yourself and don't beat yourself up about it, and don't let those "holier than thou" type vegans put you down!!! Good luck XD

P.S. Please don't bother having a go at me about eating eggs, I've heard it all before and I DON'T feel guilty! I just call myself as an "ethical eater" now which kind of describes my food choices perfectly. I buy locally sourced, organic products whenever possible, but have often being criticised for the "egg" thing by other vegans, while they themselves, buy from local supermarkets and contribute to environmental damage and exploitation of 3rd world workers etc. etc. Like I said, anyone who condenses being vegan to a simple list of foods you can and can't eat, is really missing the point in my opinion. I think it's about respect for the other animals we share the planet with, and I certainly haven't lost that just because I occasionally eat an egg when I don't have time to cook beans!

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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:36 am 
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To get chickens (female chicks) we "destroy" large amount of male chicks at their birth (free-organic-humane-etc doesn't change that situation).

Once the chickens don't lay or produce enough eggs, they will send them to be killed in the same slaughterhouses and replaced by new chickens (same here, free-organic-humane, etc doesn't change that situation either). Well unless it is a special non-profitable egg producer, I know some centers sell eggs from rescued chickens and they are left alone until they die naturally.

Unfortunately refusing animal exploitation in a society that exploits animals will lead to list some food that are "in" or "out" of our ethical engagement. Veganism goes bit beyond animal products and shows that it's possible (in most of the case)...

Quote:
if you don't have time? What then? What about the people who have two jobs and the single parents? What about people on low incomes who simply can't afford the more expensive pre-prepared vegan foods? What about people who live in places where there are no pre-prepared vegan products available? What about people who have to cook for fussy kids and don't have time to hang around and force them to eat it?
Sometimes we have to compromise and do the best we can in any given situation.

I totally agree with this though, it's not always easy or available to everyone to follow a vegan lifestyle in our non-vegan society.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-soy vegan diet is just too difficult
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Yeah, I know. Like I said, every situation is individual. Personally, I get my eggs from mainly rescued hens. They insist that they don't destroy any males and give the females a long and happy retirement. They live right out in the open and quite frankly the farmer does them a favour in return for harvesting their eggs, by protecting them against other animals, caring for them when they are ill, offering them warmth in the winter etc. They really love their hens!! XD. However, as you can imagine, for this life time in the countryside and a "happy retirement", the cost of a dozen eggs is nearly 5 euros, as compared to the 2.40 for 12 "free range" eggs in the local supermarket. This is why I could never really envisage a large commercial market for truly free range eggs because people simply wouldn't be prepared to pay for them.
Anyway, given these particular circumstances, I don't personally feel I am betraying my "vegan" ethics for eating these specific eggs...especially considering my intolerance to soy and wheat. Most of my vegan friends still consider me "vegan" where it counts most, and not because I complete some check list of specific dietary habits. I always try to eat, and consume in general, without causing harm to others, or indeed the planet. That I believe is nearly always possible but sometimes it takes a while to find your specific way of achieving it. I've found the only way I can at present, and unfortunately for many narrow minded people I am now an outcast from vegan society, or at the very least de-moted to "vegetarian"!!! Thank god not all vegans are the same! XD

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