Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:52 pm 
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I liked the article a lot and I liked the quote by William too. For some people who have made incredible transformations, you no longer see fitness and health (whatever type you pursue) as an athletic endeavor. You do come to see it as a mission and yourself as a warrior, especially if you're in a segment of society that often hears "you cannot do it."

The comments weren't that bad...most of them are supportive.


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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:20 pm 
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robert wrote:
As far as comments, I haven't looked at any. Anyone who has a YouTube channel knows that for the most part, it doesn't do any good to read comments :)


I'm a youtube junkie and have been for years (no TV - by choice), so that is the very site that taught me to give up taking the "comments" seriously at all. Its ok for affirmation or positive comments you liked about something and you want to give support but the endless childish debates that get started and go on into insult contests are a HUGE waste of time to even read.

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Rippedveg wrote:
I liked the article a lot and I liked the quote by William too. For some people who have made incredible transformations, you no longer see fitness and health (whatever type you pursue) as an athletic endeavor. You do come to see it as a mission and yourself as a warrior, especially if you're in a segment of society that often hears "you cannot do it."

The comments weren't that bad...most of them are supportive.


Yes but to suggest that professional athletes are only in it for the money.. Come on.. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:15 am 
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I didn't like the quote at all and was surprised some people were passing it around as positive, but I know back stories that likely none of you know, so it was almost more of "who" said it, and "why," than the actual words themselves. There are real, tangible reasons why I get nervous for the vegan movement and vegan bodybuilding image when Kenneth opens his mouth. I've known him for about 8 years now. I don't think we should ever put ourselves above the movement we claim to care about and want to support.

You know why he made that comment? Because he wanted to be given a $10 million dollar contract for coming in 12th of 12 in a bodybuilding competition and the warrior reference is likely due to his involvement with "Warrior Food," from a company he represents :) I still don't think it was respectful to athletes and was a typical rah-rah vegan kind of statement.

He and I were interviewed back in 2008 for this story. I wasn't competing. I knew Kenneth was, but was a little nervous about sending them his way, knowing the type of mentality he has. The did the story on Kenneth because he was competing. Here is a link to the article, and a quote from the article, which is a theme each time I hear him speak.

http://motherjones.com/environment/2009/03/veg-o-might

"Williams is also out for fame—huge, ridiculous fame, and all the money and influence that come with athletic stardom. "The legend of Kenneth Williams" is not a phrase he is uncomfortable using. It's only a matter of time, Williams believes, before big companies realize what a "conscious athlete" can do for their brand. "This is what I want: $10 million with $2 million cash in hand," Williams told me a few days before the Natural Olympia. "Imagine 'Nike Natural.' When Nike gives me a deal, I'll outsell Michael Jordan." Then he pitched me his ideas for hybrid car commercials."

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy hanging out with Kenneth when I see him. Most recently it was back in October, just a few months away. But at age 44, he reminds me of myself at 21. There is a lot of grounding that needs to be done, ego set aside and focus on real issues that matter. Not just names in newspapers, but reducing animal suffering and cruelty. I think there are more effective ways of promoting the message, that's all.

Just my $.02

RC

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:15 am 
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Wow do I feel like an ass now. :oops:

Sorry Robert I didn't know that's where he was coming from. I totally understand, and I take back my comment!

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:55 am 
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No problem at all! I've tried to be quiet for years. Gossip, in general, seems to be a bad thing and as I learn about Buddhism, I gossip or speak of others in any way other than positive, less and less these days.

I've just been around the block so long and I'm usually interviewed for these stories and KW is often interviewed as well. I've seen the song and dance over and over again and I just don't think it's the right message. Many others feel the same. Just thought it had to be said because most didn't know where that comment came from, nor what it was referring to, and somehow thought it was OK to disrespect 99.99999% of people who play sports, professionally or on amateur levels.

Again, just sharing what many already know. I want what's best for the movement, which is why I thought the angle of this story about Jimi was great. He's got a great physique, dedicates his life to fitness, has succeeded in bodybuilding, is very grounded, respectful and responsible, feels strongly about animal rights, health and fitness and is a nice guy.

I see the future of Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness (as far as media goes) being carried largely by Derek. I honestly want what is most effective. I don't care about names and faces in magazines or websites or TV commercials just to pat one's own back, but rather having the best voices speak the loudest. Derek is a far better representative of Vegan Bodybuilding than me, for example. Therefore I passed a lot of opportunities over to him this year and he's poised to continue to take things to a new level. There are a lot of great spokespeople in the movement and I'm glad they highlighted Jimi this week. That was really cool to see him get recognized for all his hard work.

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:16 pm 
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HorseSense wrote:
Wow do I feel like an ass now. :oops:

Sorry Robert I didn't know that's where he was coming from. I totally understand, and I take back my comment!

Ditto. I did not understand all of that at all and stand corrected.


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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Richard wrote:
You have to remember that veganism is seen by the vast majority as extreme, pointless, or even dangerous.


The trainer quoted as saying veganism is an extreme diet amused me. To imply that the standard american diet, or a super-animal-heavy bodybuilding diet is less "extreme" than eating fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, grains... people are so skilled at deluding themselves.

As for comments, I wasted an afternoon last week in a heated comment debate on a Marc Bekoff article in the Atlantic, where he responds to those two former vegetarian women who advocate grass-fed beef or something.

The usual suspects of anemic logical fallacies... the bible says its ok, vegans don't make any difference, you can't be perfect so why try, vegans are somehow less ethical than meat eaters, veganism is unhealthy or impractical, etc etc.... In any case, what a waste of time :/ But I did get in some 5-star debating gems... 18 disqus comments, 104 likes received ;)


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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Thanks for sharing!

Yeah, I get really tired of that idea that vegan is "extreme" or dangerous. Look at the American population. Something like 270 million people of only 310 million have some sort of diet/lifestyle related illness. This makes me want to vomit all over myself. I can't believe so many people have it completely backwards. I actually "can" believe it, because I know the how and why of it all, the turning point when the dairy industry created the greatest marketing campaign in the history of the modern world, etc.

But I just can't help but think how pathetic it is that is 2012, "most" people still don't get it, and will live the rest of their lives feeling ill, taking drugs, suffering and dying early. It makes me want to cry, makes me angry, and also motivates me to work my face off to try to spread a more positive message and give home to a new generation who will hopefully live and think differently than most people do today.

Congrats on your debating work! :)

Great stuff!

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:39 pm 
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robert wrote:
motivates me to work my face off


Not your beautiful face! :D Hey, you know by now that you can't educate all the idiots all the time. It's a law of nature or physics or something. The best you can do--and it's a lot--is to be a beacon of inspiration for those who are ready to learn and eager to change. Just position yourself on the front lines, flex a bicep or two, and watch the converts rush forward to meet you. You're doing great work, Robert. The ones who get it, know it...and we love you for it.

Baby Herc

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Baby Hercules wrote:
You're doing great work, Robert. The ones who get it, know it...and we love you for it.


Darn straight. I was at a vegan meetup in NYC yesterday, and someone I met said Robert is the hardest working vegan alive ;)

I had mentioned that coming across Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness 6 or 7 years ago was part of what convinced me it was safe and practical to go full Vegan in the first place. First I heard Gene Bauer of Farm Sanctuary speak, and I said ok, time to go 100% plants, but I didn't know whether it would be healthy (haha).

Then I came across Robert's board and site, with pictures of bodybuilders, big power lifters, and endurance athletes who are Vegan, and that convinced me. I am sure this website has helped many others take the plunge as well.

No we cannot convince everyone to go vegan tomorrow, but none of the progressive changes and enlightened attitudes human society has slowly adopted have occurred overnight. There is certainly hope, if humanity does not self destruct first, that a few hundred years down the line or hopefully much sooner, the concept of enslaving animals for food could be viewed universally as barbaric as well as crazy and unhealthful, just as current western society would view many customs of a few hundred years ago as the same. All change starts with one individual at a time...


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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:36 am 
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Wow! Thanks for the sincere and kind words you guys!

Joelbct,

I saw your name on here and was thinking....wow, one of the original members! Bringing it back old school!

Thanks for dropping back in. This place is busier than ever, especially with training journal updates.

I appreciate everyone here and all of your efforts to make the lives of those you care about better.

Have a great week!

-Robert

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:45 pm 
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His positive energy and (non-arrogant) display of success is what attracted me to take the plunge again, but this time do it RIGHT! There is a lot of misinformation out there about veganism and especially vegan bodybuilding. We all know the meat/dairy industries are making KILLINGS (pun intended I guess) off of this misinformation, so of course they're not keen on exactly getting the truth out there.

It is up to grassroots folks like Robert and all of us to carry this message forward. Light dispels the darkness where ever it shows up and once people learn the truth, people who like it anyway, there is NO turning back!

David

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Nice article for the most part. Eventually they'll get it and not say 'vegan athlete,' but 'athlete who happens to be vegan.'

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 Post subject: Re: A bunch of our members mentioned in the New York Times
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:13 pm 
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I came across the article online (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/sports/vegans-muscle-their-way-into-bodybuilding.html?pagewanted=all) by accident. Overall I thought it was good. Definitely glad that it showed you can build muscle without meat.

Also, the comments are just as interesting. The vegans / vegetarians are rallying and even some meat eaters recognize the benefits of our diet.

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