Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't like calling foods "clean" or "dirty" - it creates a certain stigma and makes it sound like certain foods have 'super' properties to them that prevent them from making someone gain weight. I mean, yeah, 2,000 calories of spinach is a lot harder to consume than 2,000 calories worth of peanut butter but it's still about calories in and calories out.



I do totally agree with you here, though, and this definitely made me think a lot about my goals. I personally don't ever want to do bodybuilding competitions and really want to work toward doing raw powerlifting so, I suppose, my macro tracking isn't a necessity.
It has, however, helped me out a lot with my undereating, figuring out how much I actually do need to be eating to get stronger, and what kind of foods work best for helping me perform in the gym. For example, I was eating 1,800 calories a day with really high protein/moderate carbs for a while but the scale wasn't going up in the gym and I was crashing half-way through sessions so I started eating 2,000 with lowered protein and higher carbs. Gym performance improved but now my weight's still the same as it was in December so I'll probably be upping my calories again.



Training's going great, actually. Steady increases in all of my big lifts and I definitely feel stronger - which is awesome.

_________________
"When in doubt, squat and run hills." - Jim Wendler

IRON MNTN // LOG

That's what blenders were created for

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1st Place Raw Champs 2011, 2012 (3 raw records)
Training for my first 100 mile running race

WEB: http://jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/user/kiwilifter?feature=mhee

I guess we could go go back & forth here as I had started to reply but we could continue this debate until the end of time.

Can I ask though (genuinely) why you only have been taking in (at a max) 2,000 calories? I must eat roughly 3,000 just on a normal day. I have had to start hitting a bit of cardio due to these strong man events. Feel awkward when running now with the extra bulk haha

I was shocked when I saw the post workout shake the strongmen/power lifters I train with had....full fat milk, double cream, dark choc,Ice cream, double choc cookies & the usual post workout supps. Even a
Kinder egg was dropped in after (obviously these guys aren't veggie/vegan)

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler

Shouldn't use him as a reference for obvious reasons but have you ever seen Ronnie Colemans supposed diet? It's Horrendus....

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler

Interesting posts above. I eat in the neighbourhood of 3,500cals a day for maintenance; for me to gain weight I would need to be over the 4,000cal mark.

I wouldn't be too afraid to nudge over the 2,000cals, just progressively increase in small increments and gauge your progress. You will be burning a lot with the amount of the training you are doing, just a thought not a proposal.

_________________
1st Place Raw Champs 2011, 2012 (3 raw records)
Training for my first 100 mile running race

WEB: http://jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/user/kiwilifter?feature=mhee

Vegansludge, after seeing the comment about you gasing out during workouts & seeing the calorie in take I was curious to what a routine entailed for you...your leg day made my legs ache just looking at it. Also the back day...holy fuck man props to you for being able to smash through such a workout but can I ask what your appetite is like? Are you hungry with a couple hrs of eating?

I'm not like getting at you man but if you came to me with those workouts my first words would be "way to much" I use to be in the mind set of "something for everything" eg a shoulder workout would be a db press, 2 front raise movements, 2 side raise movements & a rear delt move.

Now all I do is a military press, that's it & I've gotten rounder shoulders doing this. Also all of a sudden I'm killing my bench, I'm getting more reps on dips & chins..Weighted

Also if you are pairing squats with deads, military with bench you need to ask which is the one you want to lift more on. So you pick which ever & start wih that. You can't expect all Lifts to progress as they are using a lot of the same muscle groups. Me I go Mon:military Tue:dead lift Wed:off Thurs:bench Fri:squat. So basically upper-lower-off-upper-lower. I obviously don't know if you always hit two big lifts a session but what I saw did?

I'm genuinely trying to give you advice. I use to seriously over train, when I started to get a better grasp of lifting I looked at an old workout I'd wrote down. Back day: cable row, dumbbell row, t bar (high frame)-tP-bar(lower frame)-lat pull down- narrow lat pull, seated frame row & barbell rows. When I read it now it seem rediculious & my best body part is prob my back & I keep it dead simple.

Upper back all I do now are chins (various grips) & dumbbell or barbell rows. That's it nothing you do will work the back better, more bang for your buck & all that. I also now treat deads as a lower body move so I'll use front squats & ghr as assistance...that's it.

Genuine advice buddy not in the slightest meant to be taken as negative. I Use to be a serious over trainer. If your after hypertrophy then after the big lift pick 2/3assistances & hit 3-5 sets with rep range of 10-20 but you don't need to kill yourself on these.

If your interested pm me your email & I'll send you Wendlers 5/3/1 first edition (I have 2nd but I paid for that) & I'll be happy to send it over. Even if the program's not for you the principles are still sound. If you wish to one day compete in some raw lifts you need to train in that form. Ala myself, mini fork lift & chewy

All the best

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler

All advice and critique is welcomed, mate, so no worries about "getting at me." That's why I jointed the forum - don't have any friends who lift or anybody to hash out my routine with and, as a beginner, that's pretty crucial.

Since I learned my lesson with trying to write my own program, I'm currently following Layne Norton's PHAT program (http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feat ... -2011.html) hence all the volume. It's supposed to bring about increases in size and strength which, yeah, it definitely has. However, I definitely don't want to stick to it forever as I'd rather just stronger so after I finish these 12 weeks I'd already talked about running 5/3/1 and either doing Smolov Jr. for my bench or doing that after I got through 5/3/1.

In terms of hunger, I slam back a shake right after my workouts and then within an hour-an hour and a half I'm pretty hungry.

2,000 calories is because my projected maintenance is around 1,800 (5'3" female and 122 pounds) so I was eating that for a while but the scale wasn't going up, so I bumped them to 2,000 about four weeks ago (I think). Bumping them up again by another 200 this weekend to try and get things moving.

_________________
"When in doubt, squat and run hills." - Jim Wendler

IRON MNTN // LOG

Appetite is a great indication of how your body's reacting to the training. If your appetite is not very big this usually points to over training, the reverse if the body's reacting well.

I can eat two cups of rice, stir fry veg, mock meat; some pulses (I can't eat a lot they do not agree with me) & 1-2 scoops of protein & two hrs later I'm hungry again that's why I like training four days hahaha

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler

If you're looking at doing PL'ing meets, I'd definately look at switching to Wendler's 5/3/1. I have the e-book, more than happy to email lto you if you are interested? Less is more for powerlifting, you simply won't produce the numbers you could be capable of from following a bodybuilding split/programme, same as you can't try and max out every week. Powerlifting is all about training smarter rather than just training more.

Just my 2c of course, cheers MF

_________________
1st Place Raw Champs 2011, 2012 (3 raw records)
Training for my first 100 mile running race

WEB: http://jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/user/kiwilifter?feature=mhee

I've actually been getting hungrier the last few weeks and I talk about it in my last video log, which is weird for me - I don't know if you remember but we talked a while ago about me not having an appetite and now I'm forever hungry.

5/3/1 was my number one choice after PHAT and what both of you are saying does make the most sense. I've only got five more weeks of PHAT left then the plan is to deload, test my 1RMs and jump into 5/3/1. If one of you gentlemen would be willing to send me the ebook, I'd be forever indebted (more so than I am for all the feedback/advice).

_________________
"When in doubt, squat and run hills." - Jim Wendler

IRON MNTN // LOG

PM me your email addy and I'll fire it across to you. I think I have the revised edition, either way it's bloody good.

Your lifts will rocket up, the programme makes so much sense. We just obviously have to change around the nutrition side of things but you'll already have a good grasp on that I'm sure.

_________________
1st Place Raw Champs 2011, 2012 (3 raw records)
Training for my first 100 mile running race

WEB: http://jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/user/kiwilifter?feature=mhee

If you look in the post an article thread there's a link to an extreme version of boring but big from 5/3/1.

Vegansludge: that's great news on the appetite kicking in more. Thats about the best clue to adjust your training to.

I can't say enough good things about 5/3/1 & the 2nd edition has so many templates it's fantastic. All I can say is follow it accordingly. Adding chins between pressing & benching has helped me immensely

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler

If you need it I also have the excel spreadsheet which will plot the lifts, project your 1rep max & give you weights for boring but big....such a time saver

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler

Maybe it's just psychological but after my past three or four work-outs, I have been insanely hungry.

And the excel sheet would be great. I actually think I'm going to cut my cycle of PHAT short and just do 10 weeks instead of 12 so I can take a week to deload, test my working sets, and then jump right into 5/3/1.

_________________
"When in doubt, squat and run hills." - Jim Wendler

IRON MNTN // LOG

Pm me ur addy & I'll fire the excel sheet over. It works perfectly I sat & worked the lifts myself it's great. check my log I blogged today's workout

As of tomorrow I'm gonna be having a shake with every meal I eat. X2 scoops I've been mixed brown rice with quiona last few days, feeling strong,give it a bash. Quater cup of each dried to make a cup (or like me more

_________________
"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler