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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:05 am 
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Gorilla
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Iconoclast wrote:
Nah. Society and culture is trying it's hardest to make us feel ashamed and apologetic for being different.
Many times it works, there are many apologetic vegans out there. "I'm vegan. Um, I'm sorry. If that makes you uncomfortable that is. I'll be quiet". Or you see them rushing to the aid of a carnist who was determined to confront a vegan and now they backed themselves into a corner, making themselves look foolish.
The fact is, even if you feel embarrassed for them and let them have an "out", they are looking to dump responsibility off of themselves. So long as they won't take responsibility they will continue to do what society will let them.
If someone ever tried to confrentate me on veganism they only make that mistake once. People that know me avoid that discussion at all costs. No mercy.


This^


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Manatee
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
And It's not just a diet for me.

Exactly. It isn't a diet, its a lifestyle born out of the animal rights movement. Plant-based is a diet. Herbivore is a diet lol.

And I love the word Vegan; I wish there didn't have to be a distinction between vegetarians and Vegans (i.e.: had vegetarians gone all the way with AR, we wouldn't need Veganism), but its short and sweet. Some people can give it a good name, and others not so much. I strive to be the former.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:09 am 
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There's a difference between being sure of yourself, and wanting to get in an argument. I know that veganism is a good thing, but to me it's a label, not what I "am". In reality, there's just a list of things that I'm against, and that can loosely be termed as veganism, in a simplistic way. If someone asks me if I am vegan, then for simplicity, I will say yes. But on the other hand, if someone says "will you eat this?" and I say "no" and they say "why?", I will say "because it's got X in it". I don't take the opportunity to say "because I am vegan" - that's not why in fact, it's just a label. To say "I don't do this because I am vegan", is like putting myself as part of a group, and then that person reacts, judging you on everything they think of vegans.

There's no need to take that leap, and I wait as long as possible for another reason: If someone gets to know you before they know you're vegan, they often have a better view of you because they have not had their view clouded by their preconceptions. Then once they eventually do find out, they already think you're a cool person, and veganism is then linked with you, rather than you being linked with veganism. So veganism looks better because of it.

It isn't about being apologetic, it's realistic. People on the whole don't understand veganism, and even have a problem with it (ridiculous). But that's where we're at at the moment. Confrontation and pride doesn't get through to many people in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:33 am 
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Richard wrote:
if someone says "will you eat this?" and I say "no" and they say "why?", I will say "because it's got X in it". I don't take the opportunity to say "because I am vegan" [...] To say "I don't do this because I am vegan", is like putting myself as part of a group, and then that person reacts, judging you on everything they think of vegans.

This. I like the idea of explaining to people the "why" rather than what might be an ambiguous or misdefined term to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:38 am 
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I like/agree with what Richard says too. (There is no like button here). :)

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:15 am 
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Richard wrote:
There's a difference between being sure of yourself, and wanting to get in an argument. I know that veganism is a good thing, but to me it's a label, not what I "am". In reality, there's just a list of things that I'm against, and that can loosely be termed as veganism, in a simplistic way. If someone asks me if I am vegan, then for simplicity, I will say yes. But on the other hand, if someone says "will you eat this?" and I say "no" and they say "why?", I will say "because it's got X in it". I don't take the opportunity to say "because I am vegan" - that's not why in fact, it's just a label. To say "I don't do this because I am vegan", is like putting myself as part of a group, and then that person reacts, judging you on everything they think of vegans.

There's no need to take that leap, and I wait as long as possible for another reason: If someone gets to know you before they know you're vegan, they often have a better view of you because they have not had their view clouded by their preconceptions. Then once they eventually do find out, they already think you're a cool person, and veganism is then linked with you, rather than you being linked with veganism. So veganism looks better because of it.

It isn't about being apologetic, it's realistic. People on the whole don't understand veganism, and even have a problem with it (ridiculous). But that's where we're at at the moment. Confrontation and pride doesn't get through to many people in my experience.


I stand by what I said earlier, but I agree with you. I'm very non-confrontational, and i've been a vegetarian for 18 years so i've heard every joke and jab and it gets old. When I was a kid, most of it came from friends parents/my mom's friends and I had to be respectful, but now that i'm an adult I don't want to hear anyone's crap. I've been at my job in a very small, very conservative office for two years and no one knows that i'm vegan, I don't think they've even picked up that I don't eat meat. We never order pizza or things like that so it's been pretty easy to avoid, and if push came to shove i'd probably tell them that I have a dairy allergy (which isn't entirely untrue, I WILL get really sick).

I don't think i've ever responded to 'would you like x' with 'no, i'm vegan' because most people don't understand what that means. I usually just politely say 'no thank you', but sometimes people can be really jerky and persist. I went to a friends-of-a-friends birthday party, and my friend insisted on asking if the cake had eggs to see if I could eat it (I knew the answer was no), the hostess zoomed over to me with a cupcake and shoved it in my damn face and insisted it was okay because it's was only the egg whites (and y'know, milk). She was really bullying but I looked like the asshole.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:28 am 
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I have a gluten sensitivity/allergy so it is easy for me to avoid a lot of the foods offered me.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Iconoclast wrote:
Nah. Society and culture is trying it's hardest to make us feel ashamed and apologetic for being different.
Many times it works, there are many apologetic vegans out there. "I'm vegan. Um, I'm sorry. If that makes you uncomfortable that is. I'll be quiet".


I agree. Being ashamed/apologetic about what you are about or what you support doesn't help you or what you support. People can sense it. If you don't feel good about it, why should they? That is why I don't listen to animal protection orgs that ask me not to use the word "vegan" when volunteering for them.

That is only part of the story though.

Veganism, AR and vegan diets tend to be freak magnets. There are a number of loud, foolish and obnoxious people giving all 3 of those things a bad name.

You have to be aware of and honest about those things too, picking your battle accordingly.

In situations that have nothing to do with diet ( work, other pursuits ), I will wait until someone else brings it up. If they do, I will not dance around it. Like others wrote here, the best way to undo the damage to the word is to be a cool person and cool vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:36 pm 
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My father feels this way, so he does what you do. he says he's in a strict plant based 'life'.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:46 am 
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Gorilla
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Richard wrote:
There's a difference between being sure of yourself, and wanting to get in an argument. I know that veganism is a good thing, but to me it's a label, not what I "am". In reality, there's just a list of things that I'm against, and that can loosely be termed as veganism, in a simplistic way. If someone asks me if I am vegan, then for simplicity, I will say yes. But on the other hand, if someone says "will you eat this?" and I say "no" and they say "why?", I will say "because it's got X in it". I don't take the opportunity to say "because I am vegan" - that's not why in fact, it's just a label. To say "I don't do this because I am vegan", is like putting myself as part of a group, and then that person reacts, judging you on everything they think of vegans.

There's no need to take that leap, and I wait as long as possible for another reason: If someone gets to know you before they know you're vegan, they often have a better view of you because they have not had their view clouded by their preconceptions. Then once they eventually do find out, they already think you're a cool person, and veganism is then linked with you, rather than you being linked with veganism. So veganism looks better because of it.

It isn't about being apologetic, it's realistic. People on the whole don't understand veganism, and even have a problem with it (ridiculous). But that's where we're at at the moment. Confrontation and pride doesn't get through to many people in my experience.


I love what Richard said here, especially because it is a new viewpoint for me with regards to veganism. It reminds me of the fact that I was raised in a very religious household, in which there were many mainstream things I wasn't allowed to do growing up. They always taught us, though, that when asked why we weren't participating in something, NOT to say "because I'm an {XYZ} and we don't do that," but to say something like "because that {XYZ event} is rooted in {XYZ} origins, and that's not acceptable for me."

Eventually, sooner or later, it's GOING to come out that I'm vegan, but if they can judge me on me as a person, rather than what I choose to eat or not eat, then I can hopefully paint a better picture of "veganism" for them.

I appreciate your comment, Richard! Thanks for posting it! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:33 pm 
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There are very bad vegans out there. I've seen then and met them.

From the preachy types (I've met preachy meat eaters to soo.. Plus, don't call yourself a "carnivore" unless you know what that word means) to the types that just don't eat right and look horrible. It's just like everything out there, the odd ones get media attention and people always seem to judge things by how the media presents them.

If you haven't noticed from my avatar I am a fur or "furry".. Sadly there are some very odd members of the "community" out there and they get media attention so people instantly assume you are like them, when I am not, nothing like them in fact.

It's hard to get most people to judge you for you rather than what they see in the media.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:08 am 
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Gorilla
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Mythic, what does that mean that you're "a fur"/"furry"?


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone else here dislike the word "vegan"?
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:34 am 
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Just to respond with an explanation...

In "the old days" it was about people who were fascinated or had some sort of connection to animals to the point where they had a fantasy style self that was half animal and half human, allowing them to have the animal connection but also allowing that self to interact with the typical human world. In the old days it was nice, safe and maybe just a little quirky.

These days (I mostly blame the internet) it's been taken over by sexual fetishism and things that I wouldn't want to go into because, well, I don't like it. The majority of us still identify ourselves with the "group" but not the new people who are, sadly, more numerous now as there are far more people with fetishes than a connection to animals.

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