Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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 Post subject: no fruit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:22 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:42 pm
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Hi forum,

After lurking for a while I've decided to make my 1st post, so hi everyone!

Along with a designed workout routine and what to eat, I've been told to cut out fruit to reach my goals by my trainer (and snack on almonds instead). Just to add i'm vegan (soy-less too) and trying to eat as much whole foods as possible.

I'm currently trying to reduce bodyfat from 14% to 10% and build muscle in the process. So my question is, is fruit all that bad for building mass and fat loss?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:37 am 
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oh wow, you may get some interesting replies from the fruitarians in here. There are many athletes/lifters that eat nothing but fruit. Seeds are often very nutritious, can be a good source of protein among other things, and seeds come from fruit. I am a big fan of hemp seeds myself. They taste delicious on salads and they are amazing nutrition content wise.
Welcome to the forum. Keep posting. Maybe try posting questions on other threads with these questions that way people will be sure to see them and you will get more responses.

-Dylan


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Rabbit

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awesome, thanks Dylan!

yeah it seems odd to me but i've changed too many factors to objectively judge for myself.

the last 6 months i was eating somewhere between 801010 and a high carb low fat cooked vegan diet, I was doing mainly bodyweight training and cardio and I felt GREAT (emotionally and physically). Now i'm on this weight training programme and no fruit, I'm getting physically stronger definitely (chin ups reps are increasing) but i'm cranky as hell! :)

The other week i was crashing even after eating a meal and miserable too, i 'caved' in and had 2 oranges and it was like night and day, i felt amazing again. my mood literally changed in 2 minutes. I'm still new to weight training so i am curious and wanted to know if anyone else has had similar experiences and people's thoughts on fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:57 pm 
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Manatee
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I reduced my bodyfat from 18% to 8% on a high-fruit diet and built muscle and gained strength along the way. Does this guy have any rationale behind not eating fruit?

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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Stegosaurus
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Some people are just sensitive to certain carbohydrate sources, myself included. I now only have fruit either immediately before or after training, as I typically keep carbohydrate content fairly low except on training days, and except near times I'll be lifting. I can't eat much for carbohydrate sources except when needed, otherwise, I'm bloated, sluggish, and feel less than good most days. Everyone is different, so it's always a personal issue to see how you fare, not everyone is going to respond to the same foods or macronutrient ratios the same way. There are people here who seem to thrive on fruit, some who can pound down plate after plate of pasta, etc., but some who are like myself who have to be VERY careful about carb sources and intake if we're out to try and reduce bodyfat.

So far, I've managed a slow-and-steady drop of about 15 lbs. of pure fat in the course of 4 months without any cardio (save for about 4 nice walks I've taken in the past month), gotten considerably stronger, and without any real restriction on calories, doing only weight training and eating plenty to never be hungry with 3 good-sized meals and 2-3 snacks over the course of the day. It took a lot of experimentation to find what has been working for me, but if you try all logical approaches at some point, you'll know just what's going to work.

If you're feeling headachey or cranky from lower carb intake, I'd suggest checking to see if you can locate any vegan glucose tablets at your local pharmacy. Some brands are vegan (though, most will have artificial colorings in them, they aren't totally natural), usually 1-2 tablets can help bring you back to life again without being carb-heavy to slow the fat loss effect of a lower carbohydrate diet. When I've done really low carb plans in the past (100g or less per day), I've relied on glucose tablets to get me through my workouts, usually taking 2 before training and sometimes 2 afterward along with a post-workout shake. That, or I'd make sure to eat a pear or banana before training if I was going to have a fruit-based carb source, that worked well for me, too, and helped keep me fueled and from crashing too quickly. Oatmeal worked well, too, for pre-workout energy without being too high in carbohydrates. It doesn't take a LOT of carbohydrates to stave off the bad feelings that come with reducing carbohydrates too far, and the first few days tend to be the toughest, but once you adapt, you may just feel better for it. I know now that I can't consume 50% or more of my calories from carbohydrates and feel remotely energetic or motivated (meals high in carbs just make me want to go to sleep many times), so I've learned to keep them at around 30-40% max for my intake and that seems to do fairly well on days that I'm training. I usually cut carbs considerably on my "off" days when I'm not at the gym, sometimes as low as 20-25% occasionally, it all depends on the day.

Lower carb dieting isn't for everyone, but some of us do respond better to it when our bodies have decided that carbohydrates aren't always our friend!

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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:59 am 
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Thanks for all the replies everyone. It happened again when I was at work yesterday, all day without any fruit and started to feel almost spaced out. By 4pm i had to have something so i went and got some cherries (low GI fruit) and felt functional again. I'm gonna include 1 or 2 fruit servings a day or a glucose tablet, as and when my body wants it. Thanks VeganEssentials for the glucose tablet tip!

Iron Clad Ben, the trainer threw alot of science at me but from what i remember it was to do with the GLUT4 receptor and fruit fills the (liver/muscle?) glycogen stores quite easily and the rest of it turns to fat?? If anyone has anymore info on that, that would be appreciated as my understanding is pretty vague. Congrats on reducing all that bodyfat!


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:44 am 
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My understanding is that fructose goes towards making glycogen until glycogen stores are full in the liver, 100 grams, then fatty acids as only natural and there isn't a lot of fructose in fruit to make a person obese in the first place. I believe those studies were done with High fructose corn syrup which contains a crazy amount of fructose that would never be found in nature. The only people that need to worry about fruit intake is those that eat animal products and excessive amounts of refined oils and junk foods.

Follow your instincts and don‘t let these bullies tell you what is and isnt‘t good for you.


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:44 am 
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I don't think it's healthy to cut out fruit, they are a great source of vitamins, and are a healthy way to get carbs, that's number one. Number two, you can definitely cut fat whilst eating fruit. They are virtually fat-free. Number three, eating fruit will not prevent you from building muscle - but they are not what you should eat alone to achieve that. But just being part of your diet, fruit won't prevent muscle mass from being built.

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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:55 am 
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Anyone who tells you to cut out fruit or to eat almost nothing but fruit doesn't know what s/he is talking about.

Fruit can be a problem for fat loss as it is a calorie source that people can easily eat too much of. Thats it. No evil essence.

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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:29 pm 
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beforewisdom wrote:
Fruit can be a problem for fat loss as it is a calorie source that people can easily eat too much of.


this is the thing, I've been told to cut out fruit but snack on almonds instead, which i imagine is a more calorie dense source and i can easily eat too much of. any recommendations on daily almonds and fruit servings? i'm currently eating about 20 almonds daily.


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:32 pm 
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It's really going to depend on the fruit and how much exercise you're doing. You can go to sites like http://nutritiondata.self.com/ to check out the kind of calories and carbs that the fruits have, and work them into your diet accordingly.

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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:19 pm 
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veganMT wrote:
beforewisdom wrote:
Fruit can be a problem for fat loss as it is a calorie source that people can easily eat too much of.


this is the thing, I've been told to cut out fruit but snack on almonds instead, which i imagine is a more calorie dense source and i can easily eat too much of. any recommendations on daily almonds and fruit servings? i'm currently eating about 20 almonds daily.


Yes, that recommendation is pretty ignorant.

There are 3500 calories in a pound. 250 extra calories a day will put an extra 1/2 pound of fat on you a week..........or 26 lbs by the end of the year.

Check out these pictures
What does 200 calories look like?

Use this, a food scale and a food diary for a few weeks to correct your portion sizes:
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list

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"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)


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 Post subject: Re: no fruit?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Manatee
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I'm not a big fan of fruit (tho I love my veggies) but I still try to get them in. Here are s few videos from Dr Gregor on importance of fruits and veggies. You can decide after watching a few if you think they are of value.

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/fruits/

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