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 Post subject: PETA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:09 pm 
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I just wondered, I often hear in various vegan circles people Slagging off peta I just wondered if anyone could shed some light into why?

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:34 pm 
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The main reasons typically being that -

1. Many view PETA's use of mostly-nude women in frequent events and advertisements as sexist and degrading. Think of the "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaigns using famous women with barely any covering, or the infamous "Lettuce Ladies" who they'll send out to events who use only a bit of...you guessed it...lettuce to cover their private parts. Or, naked women painted like tigers put into cages at circus protests. PETA has a tendency to use semi or fully nude females as a way to gain attention, and somehow, they always seem to avoid using mostly-naked men (which would at least make them consistent in exploiting nudity in general, not JUST female nudity). While I'm sure many non-vegan men have been titillated by images of mostly naked women, it's a safe bet that not a single one decided to go vegan because of sexual imagery used in a PETA campaign.

2. Others think that PETA spends too much of their funds running absurd ad campaigns just to draw attention to themselves instead of working to help the animals. For example, PETA will make a public proposition for something that they know won't happen (like their attempt to get the Green Bay Packers football team to rename itself due to it's origin coming from the meat packing industry), throwing money out in such ways just to make sure that their name gets in the news again, but knowing nothing will come of it. Just simple "shock tactics" like that are enough to put many people off who would rather see them focusing on promoting veganism and animal rights instead of silly "Look at me!!!" ad campaigns that just make a mockery of the movement once the mainstream media picks up on it.

3. Many people are put off by PETA's ability to be completely misanthropic in showing zero compassion for some who have gotten ill or been killed due to implied animal product consumption or other events. For example, many were upset at PETA's preposterous billboard campaign that poked humor at former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani's prostate cancer, attributing it to milk consumption without any real proof that it was a direct cause of his health problems. Or, the campaign they ran after someone was attacked by a shark in Florida that essentially inferred that "you go in the ocean, you get what you deserve for being in their territory", ignoring that a young woman lost a limb in that event just for going swimming. Or, the time they ran another wacko campaign in Canada after the case of the pig farmer who was a serial killer, equating the killing of his 17 (or whatever the number was) victims to pigs going to slaughter, being completely callous to the feelings of the families who lost loved ones to such a terrible person.

4. Some think that the combination of points 1, 2 and 3, along with other factors, put more people off to veganism and animal rights than they help to convert over to a compassionate lifestyle. Endorsing sexism and misanthropy isn't something that's welcomed by most vegans, so that's why PETA is on many people's blacklist of organizations they don't stand behind.

I'm sure there are others, but those are always the top 3 talking points I've seen come up over the past decade in relation to why PETA is pretty well removed from the bulk of the vegan and AR community.

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:25 pm 
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VeganEssentials wrote:
The main reasons typically being that -

1. Many view PETA's use of mostly-nude women in frequent events and advertisements as sexist and degrading. Think of the "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaigns using famous women with barely any covering, or the infamous "Lettuce Ladies" who they'll send out to events who use only a bit of...you guessed it...lettuce to cover their private parts. Or, naked women painted like tigers put into cages at circus protests. PETA has a tendency to use semi or fully nude females as a way to gain attention, and somehow, they always seem to avoid using mostly-naked men (which would at least make them consistent in exploiting nudity in general, not JUST female nudity). While I'm sure many non-vegan men have been titillated by images of mostly naked women, it's a safe bet that not a single one decided to go vegan because of sexual imagery used in a PETA campaign.

2. Others think that PETA spends too much of their funds running absurd ad campaigns just to draw attention to themselves instead of working to help the animals. For example, PETA will make a public proposition for something that they know won't happen (like their attempt to get the Green Bay Packers football team to rename itself due to it's origin coming from the meat packing industry), throwing money out in such ways just to make sure that their name gets in the news again, but knowing nothing will come of it. Just simple "shock tactics" like that are enough to put many people off who would rather see them focusing on promoting veganism and animal rights instead of silly "Look at me!!!" ad campaigns that just make a mockery of the movement once the mainstream media picks up on it.

3. Many people are put off by PETA's ability to be completely misanthropic in showing zero compassion for some who have gotten ill or been killed due to implied animal product consumption or other events. For example, many were upset at PETA's preposterous billboard campaign that poked humor at former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani's prostate cancer, attributing it to milk consumption without any real proof that it was a direct cause of his health problems. Or, the campaign they ran after someone was attacked by a shark in Florida that essentially inferred that "you go in the ocean, you get what you deserve for being in their territory", ignoring that a young woman lost a limb in that event just for going swimming. Or, the time they ran another wacko campaign in Canada after the case of the pig farmer who was a serial killer, equating the killing of his 17 (or whatever the number was) victims to pigs going to slaughter, being completely callous to the feelings of the families who lost loved ones to such a terrible person.

4. Some think that the combination of points 1, 2 and 3, along with other factors, put more people off to veganism and animal rights than they help to convert over to a compassionate lifestyle. Endorsing sexism and misanthropy isn't something that's welcomed by most vegans, so that's why PETA is on many people's blacklist of organizations they don't stand behind.

I'm sure there are others, but those are always the top 3 talking points I've seen come up over the past decade in relation to why PETA is pretty well removed from the bulk of the vegan and AR community.


Yeah, well that's just, like, your opinion, man.


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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:51 am 
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Ooh, well I think I see what you mean really. They do try to shock more than they try to help. I haven't come across them much really, I'm vegan for ethical/health purposes but I haven't looked that much into groups like peta. I'm still quite new to all this

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:18 am 
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I occasionally approve of their messages. But NOT the way they are put across. Partly because their activists come across as crazy people to the nonvegan world. Partly because they're ridiculously ignorant of any other aspect of political feeling (ie, feminism) and don't take a holistic approach to healing the problems they are highlighting. And of course, anybody who is vegan tends to get tarred with the "oh, you must agree with PETA" brush which isn't helpful for anyone when trying to talk or argue sensibly about not eating meat or dairy.


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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:49 am 
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I admit to going to Peta's website but only for the resources they offer like vegan products list when I can't remember and recipes....

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:44 am 
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They also killed 1,911 cats and dogs last year and about 28,000 in the past 14 years. In 2010, 84% were killed within 24 hours. They claim the animals are too sick or injured, but haven't provided real evidence. The only public evidence and testimony indicates many of the animals were perfectly fine. Their employees have also been caught disposing improperly of the bodies, and their primary facility doesn't meet their own shelter guidelines.

In their defense, there's no doubt that they take in a higher percentage of unadoptable animals, and they've never claimed to be no-kill, but they also give the impression to people leaving animals with them that there's a reasonable chance of adoption. Their main "shelter" is, in fact, a euthanasia clinic, and they need to be up-front about it. They also need to get a better handle on their employees, because I know much of this behavior is condemned by the organization as a whole.

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:36 am 
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blabbate wrote:
They also killed 1,911 cats and dogs last year and about 28,000 in the past 14 years. In 2010, 84% were killed within 24 hours. They claim the animals are too sick or injured, but haven't provided real evidence. The only public evidence and testimony indicates many of the animals were perfectly fine. Their employees have also been caught disposing improperly of the bodies, and their primary facility doesn't meet their own shelter guidelines.

In their defense, there's no doubt that they take in a higher percentage of unadoptable animals, and they've never claimed to be no-kill, but they also give the impression to people leaving animals with them that there's a reasonable chance of adoption. Their main "shelter" is, in fact, a euthanasia clinic, and they need to be up-front about it. They also need to get a better handle on their employees, because I know much of this behavior is condemned by the organization as a whole.


they dont have a choice.how many more neuter your animals campaigns do they need to run.The problem is the breeders and shitty owners.they give their problems to peta and then complain about how they handled it.

They are the #1 animal rights group and have helped spread animal rights more than anyone.

Should spend more time talking about the meat industry. Sometimes people can become to preachy.Picking at their allies.tssk tssk


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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:58 am 
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I guess cause I'm from the UK I don't think I have ever seen any peta activists /campaigns so its probably different stateside

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:07 am 
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Cold Fission wrote:
they dont have a choice.how many more neuter your animals campaigns do they need to run.The problem is the breeders and shitty owners.they give their problems to peta and then complain about how they handled it.

The problems certainly start with the breeders and owners, but when 84% are killed within 24 hours, there's an argument to be made that they aren't even giving the animals a chance. And it also doesn't excuse the poor facilities and the dumping of bodies. Nor does it make it OK to pretend to be a shelter.

I'm fine with them being a euthanasia clinic. Sadly, there's a need for a facility that puts animals down humanely, but in large numbers. I just want the adoptable animals to be given a fair shake, and for PETA to be honest about what they're doing.

Cold Fission wrote:
They are the #1 animal rights group and have helped spread animal rights more than anyone.

Which doesn't matter if they're perceived as sexists or hypocrites and people refuse to listen to them. Among the general population, they're already considered something of a joke. They're #1 only in the sense that they're the biggest, but that doesn't mean they've done more for animal rights than anyone else, particularly when SPCAs and Humane Societies and AnimalAid are on the ground at a local level on a day-to-day basis dealing with the actual animals.

Cold Fission wrote:
Should spend more time talking about the meat industry. Sometimes people can become to preachy.Picking at their allies.tssk tssk

We pick at our allies because we want them to be better. We don't want them to become punchlines or to detract from the movement. Luckily, our efforts are not zero-sum. We don't have to stop working against the meat industry to complain about PETA or vice versa.

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Cold Fission wrote:
Yeah, well that's just, like, your opinion, man.


Hahaha

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Cold Fission wrote:
Sometimes people can become to preachy.Picking at their allies.tssk tssk


I'm not saying PETA doesn't do some good. But truly, they're the ONLY group in the USA who does partake in using sex and misanthropy to sell themselves, and the only one who can afford to throw money around on massive ad campaigns that don't really help the cause of veganism or AR, all while groups that are in the trenches every single day are barely scraping by to keep from going under. It's just disheartening to see such a massive organization with so much potential to make change for the animals opt to spend their time on shameless self-promotion to push their name and need for attention over the causes that they were founded on. Money that could be better used for animal rescue, undercover investigations, court cases against animal abusers, etc. instead of another 50 billboards with women only using vegetables to cover their genitalia just to draw attention to themselves.

As blabbate said, it's constructive criticism. One BIG problem that the vegan/AR movement has is the terrible fear that if we're caught giving each other advice on what we could be doing better that it's automatically a bad thing. On the contrary, if we want to be taken seriously and be at maximum effectiveness, we NEED to get over the problem of stupid egos and fear of "what will the non-vegans think if they see us giving each other constructive criticism?" stuff that keeps things from improving. Just because a group shares similar values doesn't mean they're infallible - as I've said before, just because someone is vegan does not mean they're automatically a good person (I've met many vegans who were some of the most miserable schmucks I've ever encountered, idiocy has no ethical bounds), and even groups that champion for the animals can stray enough to where they benefit from people pointing out what they could be doing better. Nobody seems to want PETA to go away, rather, that they'd tone down the crazy shit that makes veganism look absurd and put more work into the stuff that makes a lasting difference.

But, it's PETA's choice - do they want to do the most good for the animals, or, are they like many other charities who are now overly concerned with generating revenue to get maximal attention and have lost partial sight of the big picture?

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Just for the record, they use naked men too. Why is being naked for a good cause bad at all. If it was just him giving an interview it wouldn't attract as much attention.
Maybe because of that extra attention it reached more people who would have otherwise bought fur.

I like how they mix the video up with actual footage of cruelty so people who just came for him get tricked into seeing what really happens.

Its a good thing. No harm done. Maybe some religious people get mad because it's lewd or something....







And i think using funds for spreading the message is very important. Because it stops the problem at it's source.The people.
I want to open or help fund an animal sanctuary some day but it's not solving the problem, it's just trying to clean up others messes.
PETA is attacking the root of it all. Power to them.


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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:48 am 
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Cold Fission wrote:
Just for the record, they use naked men too. Why is being naked for a good cause bad at all. If it was just him giving an interview it wouldn't attract as much attention.
Maybe because of that extra attention it reached more people who would have otherwise bought fur.

I have no problem with nudity of either sex, but in an advertising campaign it can come across as tawdry and exploitative. The tactics with which a product is advertised and sold affect the way that the product is perceived, and if those tactics seem sleazy or desperate they can poison the message. Remember, it's not about how you or I as individuals feel about the ads. It's about how the general populace perceives them, and if that perception is negative, extra attention isn't a good thing.

Cold Fission wrote:
Its a good thing. No harm done. Maybe some religious people get mad because it's lewd or something....

It's not just religious people. It's also people who feel that nudity is an insufficient proxy for actual substance, people who think using sex to sell is cheap or lazy, people who don't want their children exposed to near-nudity, etc. And if enough people are turned off by the ad instead of engaged, there IS harm done. I honestly don't know if that's the case, but it's a danger.

Cold Fission wrote:
And i think using funds for spreading the message is very important. Because it stops the problem at it's source.The people.
I want to open or help fund an animal sanctuary some day but it's not solving the problem, it's just trying to clean up others messes.
PETA is attacking the root of it all. Power to them.

Agreed, it's definitely important. But we can still have constructive discussions about how best to achieve our common goals.

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 Post subject: Re: PETA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:10 am 
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I was wondering what are the "lettuce ladies" (I've never heard about them before). I typed it into google browser. Well... I am embarrassed by this action, "tofu wrestling"!? what is this!? My first thought: How can you make such a fool of yourself!? Shame on me for those ladies. It's sad.

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