Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Beware of overtraining mate, IMHO you should be taking at least a week off every 3 months - 3 days is nothing. Same as only having 5 scheduled rest days in a month. Even 'enhanced' lifters would struggle with optimal recovery, muscular adaptation etc not to mention the hammering our CNS gets from consistent hard training.
Recovery is just as important as the training!

I'd have to disagree with you here. I am aware of the symptoms of over training as I have gotten myself into that pickle a bunch of times. I tend to sleep poorly and get quite grumpy when I am over trained and my CNS is burnt.

Training with low reps and high weight tends to burn me out very fast no matter what my rest periods are. On high rep, 8+ with moderate weight, I am not feeling that burden, at all, even after nearly 2 months.

Half of my month is essentially rest as on 10 days I only run, and train abs/calves/hamstrings (which I don't find demanding at all), the other 5 are pure rest. I consider all of those 15 days rest in some form or fashion.

I feel 3 months is good, solid, arbitrary number to rest at, and I feel starting off at 3 days of solid rest is a good idea. I can always take another 3 if it does not work out. I find that following defacto standard suggestions of what to eat, how to train, and how to rest never ever worked for me and experimenting and forging my own path is really only the true way for me to function.

Thanks for the advice though!

Main thing would be just to listen to your body, if you feel like you need a day off (or an extra day off) you should probably take it; I've had problems, as have had my clients when you're trying to stick to a rigid training programme.
Plus I have found you generally need a little more recovery as you get older. I'm 35 and respond better now to 3-4 days hard training, versus when I was 25 when I got good gains from 5 x week.
All the best with your goals anyway, cheers MF.

PS: You're probably younger than me anyway haha ?!

Well I am younger by 10 years, but I have a lot stacked against me in terms of recovery because of my missing intestines and health problems. I find if I am not consuming vast quantities of food and sleeping 8-9hrs a night my ability to recover shit cans.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful for your advice, but when you are used to tip-toeing around a delicate medical condition you learn to listen to your body very, very well.

respect mate, most ppl cant get in shape like you even without any obstacles to overcome!

Thanks buddy. It really is a work of love.

Ran 3 miles at 29min today, and trained abs and calves.

Mom and I are doing a lot of cooking today. We picked up some soy chorizo and a cooking pumpkin so we made baked pumpkin stuffed with soy chorizo/rice/peppers/onion/garlic topped with some baked pumpkin seeds. And baked spiced apple raisin for desert.

It's going to be delicious! Veganism rules!

That sounds fantastic I'm so lazy with my cooking these days :/

Mmm.

Read back your first couple of sentences mate, I'm just afraid you'll do more harm than good. Your training frequency is probably more than a lot of Pro bodybuilders could handle and they have drugs to further help them! I'm treating a number of clients right now with serious medical issues (Crohn's disease, PCOS and a diabetic that's recently suffered both a heart attack and renal failure)! All of them need more rest and recovery than your average 'healthy' gym-goer, in my 10+ years of being a health professional I have yet to meet anyone that can handle the amount of training that you're attempting to undertake. I don't want to come across as disrespectful as I've only ever posted on here to try and help people, but please take it easy; if you are missing intenstines then your digestion and utilisation of nutrients, minerals and foods in general is going to be compromised at some level. I'll leave your journal alone now bud, all the best with your goals MF.

Have you ever experimented with intermittent fasting for any of your clients with medical issues, specifically digestive problems? I find IF to be my most powerful tool for general health as well as in my training. Even outside of lifting I found a lot of my fatigue issues went away when I started IF.

I had mentioned I used to get over trained very easily, I'd become irritated, sleep poorly, and get tired during the day. When I started IF all of that went away and it's very hard for me to become over trained now, especially with the assistance of a powerful diet, plenty of hydration, and a properly structured routine, for me, anyway.

I find that the 12-16 hours my guts are totally inactive to be an incredible period for them to rest and heal, as well as balance out my hormones to help me sleep more efficiently, and my insulin sensitivity to help with nutrient delivery after my fast period.

I don't think my training frequency is too high. I have 15 days a month of hardcore training, or around 4 days a week, the other 15 is rest, to some degree (I honestly don't consider a 3-4 mile run exerting myself, I don't even sweat when I run). I've been at it at this pace since September 23rd and I am not having ANY issues.

I'm a marathoner/ultrarunner but I still wouldn't consider running 3-4 miles as a rest day. And if they are regular runs then you also have the cumulative effects from them (muscular break down, fatigue, free radical damage etc etc). I don't sweat when I run either but I can still lose up to 3kg on my long runs which is pretty crazy when you think about it haha. Anyway thanks for the post, a lot more info in there! Yes, I have used IF along with other things like fasting and CBL (you can Google John Kiefer and 'Carb back-loading'). All three of those methods certainly have value and merit.

11-17-12 1hr 30 min
DB chest press 146$ x8x8x6 > X
Pushups + 25# x20x20x20 > 27.5#
Dips + 12.5# x12x12x12 > 15#
DB chest flys 48# x8x8x8 > X
Hammer chinups +20# x12x12x12x12 > 22.5#
Triceps overhead 48# x15x15x15x15 > 50.5#
Biceps curls 38# x15x15x15x15 > 40.5

I'm just at about 2 months of training and feeling slightly over trained, oddly enough, just as of this AM.

I'm going to do my B day on the 19th to finish a circuit and then take a week off and rest. After some research, reading, and thought weighing I'd rather over rest a bit, if that is even possible, than fart around with the perfect days of rest on an off week and not fully recover.

I figure that on a solid 7 days of rest I am only 'skipping' 3 days, and over the course of a year that is 18 off days. It's hard for me to let go because I am working so incredibly hard. But I know there is really good merit to resting and it will help me greatly in the long run and help me further my goals.

It's nice that this happened over the holidays. I'll be able to put my feet up and stuff my face with Tofurky.

Thanks for the goading MF, you made me go and do some serious crack research on recovery.

No worries buddy, I hate to see people get burnt out simply because they underestimate the recovery side of things.
Funny thing is people assume that as they get stronger and become more advanced with their training they need to increase both the amount of days they train as well as the length of the workout; I believe it to actually be the opposite. Why? Because as the intensity of the training increases along with your strength/power output, the body's demand and need for extra recovery is greater. If you're doing some research I highly recommend you check out a BB'er called Mike Mentzer - his theories and ideology on training are controversial but bang on the money IMHO. Cheers MF.

I'll check him out MF, thanks bud. I was actually thinking of trying a truncated training routine after my week off for the next 2 months where I did shorter workouts. Problem is I like to eat, and I am convinced my 1+hr workouts are the reason I don't get fat. lol.