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BeansNBroccoli
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:53 pm 
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@OwlWhisperer I agree 100% that genetics play a huge part in how our bodies hold fat and develop muscle. I was actually responding to this:

Evader wrote:
women will always carry more fat. a woman at 10% looks like a man at 5%.


I didn't mean to imply that you had said that all women carry more fat... that was a different poster. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I should've clarified :)

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Justin Morgan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:35 pm 
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owlwhisperer wrote:
So how about raw vegan body builders?


There aren't many raw vegans around, so naturally there aren't many raw vegan bodybuilders around either. But you might be interested in Erin Maubray. She is a figure competitor/fitness model, and I think she actually got a pro card last year, not sure about that. I follow men's bodybuilding a lot more closely than women (but I'm always interested in fine women). Wade Lightheart, Giacomo Marchese, Chris Califano, Danny Dalton, Charlie Abel..... Those are all the raw vegan bodybuilders I can think of off hand. Each one has a different diet and a different take on food. It's not really a 1 size fits all thing.

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owlwhisperer
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Yes, agreed. I met Giacomo and he is pretty massive. His fiancee does it with him, though I haven't met her. I think it is awesome, and eventually I think that will be where I go. Maybe after I move somewhere warm, or if I had someone as a mentor to share/ask questions then I can possibly do it now. But that would require for me to give up my warm soups and stews...as a blizzard currently reigns down here upon New York and New England. :/
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Evader
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:00 am 
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BeansNBroccoli wrote:
It is not always true that females carry more fat or that the definition/structure of a female at 10% will be similar to a male at 5%.
What is true is that breast tissue is mostly fat, so individuals with a lot of breast tissue will have more fat. This includes females and males with medical conditions such as gynecomastia. If an individual doesn't carry much breast tissue, their body fat % will be lower, regardless of sex. Yes this generally correlates to sex, but it's incorrect to say that women will always carry more fat than men. The general pattern of fat deposits found on most females is certainly not true for all females. There's tons of genetic variances that could account for different patterns of fat collection/muscle development, and your chromosomes are only one of them. To look at just chromosomal make-up as an indicator of where a certain individual will keep fat deposits just isn't as reliable as you may assume.
I know that females are also said to carry excess fat around the reproductive organs, as well, but one could make the similar arguments regarding this as I have already made regarding breast tissue. If you carry abdominal fat, you carry abdominal fat. Period. Regardless of sex.

Don't mean to harp, just a pet peeve of mine when an assumption is made that "women's bodies carry fat in this manner and men's bodies carry fat in this other manner" when chromosomes are really just one part of what is a hugely intricate genetic code that accounts for a lot of these differences. It seems to me to not be far from the old idea that females can't do pull-ups because of differences in upper body musculature, which as we all know simply isn't true, either.

As for raw vegan body builders, there is plenty of protein that can be gleaned from raw produce, and dry beans can be sprouted and be edible without the need to boil/cook. It might be a little/a lot more difficult, but there's no reason a raw body builder couldn't get sufficient protein if they structured their eating correctly.

I think I may not have expressed myself cleary. If you look at a man and a woman side by side that both have similar ab definition and similar muscle tone the woman will read higher on a body fat percentage analysys. If you disagree with that I'd love to see some scientific proof otherwise. Women carry more fat than men at the same level of fitness. Maybe there's one in a hundred thousand men that have extreme gyno that may be otherwise, but in virtually all cases women will always read a higher body fat analysys than men do when they look to be the same.

Honestly, I think you're taking offence to something rediculusly trivial and it was way off base to twist this thread so off-topic over such an insignificant variance of the word "always".
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BeansNBroccoli
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:46 am 
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Not trying to start a fight. I was merely pointing out that saying "always" is false. Theres a lot of factors that go into how one carries fat other than their sex chromosomes. Period. That's all I was pointing out.
Actually, gynecomastia affects up to 60% of young men in puberty to some extent (SOURCE), and studies show that as many as 30% continue with some recognizable form of gynecomastia into adulthood, ranging from enlarged nipples to actual breast tissue.
A lot of females just don't have this large amount breast tissue that causes the higher body fat percentage. Plenty of females have AA cup breasts (which amounts to almost no extra body fat), especially after all of the weight loss that tends to come concurrent with weight training and body building.
Bodies are not so easily definable by just one set of genetic characteristics, and I just think that if breast tissue is what causes the higher body fat percentage, maybe we should try to say "people with breast tissue" instead of just saying females and try to be a little bit more accurate with our terminology.
It's just my $0.02, and prior to that post, I don't think we really knew the body type of the OP. Now we know that she has what may fall in line with a more "typical" female build, but you didn't know that before and saying "always" can be very misleading.

Also, you know, she was asking why her sense of her own body fat was so off from the calculations of her body fat, and having a body type that doesn't fit neatly into the "typical" body that those body fat calculators assume could have been an explanation. It has been a source of frustration for me in my life, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Informing someone how those calculators work and the assumptions they make is actually perfectly on topic.

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Evader
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:56 pm 
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I had gyno issues during puberty (needed to see a doctor because it was so severe), I know first hand that it's quite common. Supplying a source for that one thing does nothing to convince me. Gyno is not fat, gyno is breast tissue, breast tissue is not fat. Fat, on men and women, often builds on the breast area more than other areas. Gyno or not.

Breasts are just one small part of why women carry more fat than men. Here's a really good article you should read: http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/e ... t-than-men

Here's a couple quotes from it:
"One of the main morphological differences between men and women is the greater amount of fat that women carry"

"Fat in normal women represents between 18% and 20% of body weight, whereas in men it represents only 10% to 15%. The reason for this difference is that women at some point in their lives may nourish a fetus and then a baby from their own reserves, so women have to stock energy in the form of fat in anticipation of future pregnancies (and must stock even more energy during the last two trimesters of pregnancy)."

Here's some more articles supporting this difference between men and women:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/46965 ... -than-men/
http://www.quickmedical.com/health_info ... women.html

It's OK for there to be differences between genders. Argueing over semantics is silly. Always vs almost always.. whatever...
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owlwhisperer
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Ok. So I would like to respond to the blatant argument that has become this thread. It's foolish and petty and totally off topic. Unless you are responding to my original post, please refrain from continueing this argument. I'd greatly appreciate that. Thank you. :)
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