Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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 Post subject: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:19 am 
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Rabbit
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Veganism isn't easy... In fact it's quite difficult.... I can't be with friends for longer periods of time because I eventually get hungry and need something to eat and can't just live off of cucumbers and apples or other raw veggies/fruits.... I can't live off of nuts and bread either and up a fatso. and that's if the grocery shops/convenient stores are even open at the time I get hungry when I'm out chillin with friends.

I want FOOD... Real food that makes me feel full, and vegetables don't... Not in their raw un-spiced off-the-grocery-shelf state. Not that vegan food can't taste good, it can taste fucking awesome, but all of this requires time, planning ahead and bringing with you your own food wherever you go, especially if you're out with friends all day/evening/night. OR that there are vegan restaurants/take away places, which there aren't where I live... And falafels/subway sandwiches are just so damn demotivating and in no way nutritional, if anything I just end up becoming hungrier, because it cardboard food.

I can't live like this, it's depressing... It's weakening (because I'm malnutritioned).

So yeah I've fallen back to vegetarianism with my crappy eggs and crappy cheese/dairy products (which I'm intolerant to). This feels like such a failure morally and health wise. But the city I live in just isn't cut out for vegans, at best maybe vegetarians and even then it's difficult. I've even considered going back to meat. Fortunately I'm too disgusted by the thought of meat that I'll hopefully never cross the bridge again but I'm feeling really weak at the moment, so I can't for sure say that it won't happen (although I truly hope it doesn't).


Given my situation and circumstances I find that vegetarianism is manageable, but veganism is asceticism and I'm not an ascetic.

I love the idea of veganism... I guess that's the problem... It's an ideal for me... Not a viable practise.... I hate this set back.

I don't know why I'm writing this here... Eventually it all falls back to myself...


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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:04 am 
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Gorilla

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:05 pm
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Location: Harkány, Hungary
You want to be vegan or raw vegan? Because veganism isn't all about just raw fruits and cucumbers, do you eat grains, beans legumes and other stuff? There aren't many things in my city either, but it is mostly managable. Also if you go out like for a pizza, you can ask for a pizza without cheese and meat. I don't think you could not get full of that. Do you eat enough calories and a big variety of food? Also if you go back to eating cheese and eggs, don't judge yourself and don't feel guilty, try and search for more quality foods possibly from local farming where they don't hurt animals. To be honest I haven't been fully vegan for the last couple of months, I've been eating goat cheese and eggs that I know come from a good place, lot of people probably going to throw bad things to me because of this, but I'm not that "crazy" vegan anymore. Meat eating gorsses me out too, probably never going to go back to that, unless if I would not have any other chance of survival, but hope we won't come down to a world like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:57 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:13 am
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try indian places, they very often have vegan/vegetarian stuff is absolutely delicious, and filling, and they will usually ask you how spicy you want it, incase that upsets you
but yeah, there are a hell of alot of vegetarians (maybe not so much vegans, but they cater for that too) in india, so their cuisine has alot of suitable stuff

should also do a google search on organic/whole food/ vegetarian resturaunts in your area, they will all have vegan options

edit: maybe you should get some bloodwork done, maybe there's a few small things that you are missing in your diet? or just arent eating right?
i've never felt tired/weak/malnourished even before i was on a thought out diet, and im curious, what you think that dairy/eggs could give you that a vegan diet couldnt?


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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:28 am 
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Don't feel like a failure. You've fallen once, that's no shame. The real shame is never standing up again.
Take it easy, take your time. Choose a vegan day to see if you can overcome the problems you faced.

You did the right thing, it isn't good to be malnourished. Now try to learn and take one step at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:38 am 
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When I first decided to try being vegan my original plan was to start out as a 'weekday' vegan and then go back to vegetarian on the weekends. I got that idea from Graham Hill's Ted Talk. (only a 4 minute talk).

Well, after the first 5 days of eating vegan, I never did go back to eating vegetarian actually... just couldn't. But that was me.

Maybe that plan will work for you tho? You're more likely to be out with friends etc. on the weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:35 pm 
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What foods are you eating which you find more convenient and satisfying than vegan food?

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Totally feel you on it being very difficult to eat while out with friends. It took me a year or so to really adapt and get used to the idea that I had to be really responsible as far as bringing my own food or making sure I was completely full before leaving the house. When eating out I found it easiest to just request something special ordered, or explain my restrictions to the waitress/waiter and ask for recommendations.
I'm also the type that's just naturally inclined to have my backpack with me wherever I go, though, and said backpack always has a few Clif bars or other quick snacks in it for when I'm feeling too drained and there's no appropriate food in sight. I've been told I pretty much shut down and go blank faced when my blood sugar gets too low so I know I've got to make having snacks around a priority :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:00 am
Posts: 7
I'm sorry to hear that.

I don't think veganism is asceticism at all. I love the food I'm eating and I'm not missing out on anything I pretty much eat the same as I did before, but vegan.. but I can understand that some places aren't as vegan friendly as others though.

You know what's best for you :) Don't feel bad because of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:17 am 
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Gorilla
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What? Veganism is easy. The alternative is pain, suffering, and misery.

As a guy who regularly consumes 4,000+kcal I have no trouble finding food to eat; I either bring food with me, or find something along the way. If am going to Subway I just throw some Tofurky in my backpack and have them chuck it on the sandwich, I also make sure they clean their knives/spatulas because fuck that. Chipotle is another favorite place of mine, and I always seek out Indian, Asian, or Mediterranean places.

I also pack my own food. a protein shake, peanut butter sandwich, piece of fruit, some nuts/seeds, even some pre-soaked oats with stevia and a tetra packed almond/rice milk will go a long way. If I will be gone for extended durations I cook a crap ton of split pea stew and throw it in a tupperware, stop and grab a loaf of bread on the way and BAM, 3,000+kcal.

And if your friends cannot respect your dietary regime then are they really friends? Hell even the 70 year old woman who lives on site with me will make me sweet potatoes and veggies for our pot luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:38 am 
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I don't know I guess it's just the combination of a hectic home situation, nomadic life-style exam prep and coming to find out who your friends are in tough situations, that have made me seek comfort in ease and food/sweets I've always loved. Chocolate, cake, pizza and all that, don't talk back.. don't give you crap or ambiguous promises, it's solace on mostly hectic/shitty days. I do this to the detriment of my body, so ity's not completely consequence free and I've gained a lot of weight too... Fuck I just need to join a convent... Postmodern life is fucked up and so are postmodern people. Now if only there existed monasteries for non-religious non-theistic people :-s


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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:48 am 
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Aspirant, we're all here to support you and make the transition easier. But i think you have to be honest with yourself. On the one hand you said you find it hard to get 'real' food which is filling and nutritonal, stating that falafel and sandwiches are no good. Then you go on to say you're choosing to eat pizza,, cake and chocolate. So be honest, it's nothing to do with anything besides cravings and difficulty cutting out foods you like the taste of - which is a totally different issue to the one you raised - but nothing to be ashamed of. Lots of people struggle to drop the things they love which give them comfort, and i'm sure there will be lots of suggestions on what can be done to help, or even vegan comfort food alternatives. But i think it's important to focus on the truth, otherwise it can't be addressed. Veganism isn't the problem in itself and is not an ascetic lifestyle. You can find vegans of all shapes and sizes, just like any other food program, there are so many options on a vegan diet.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:40 am 
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That's rather judgemental and unfair. I haven't been dishonest, in fact I've openly admitted my cravings and difficulties on this diet. I've also been honest about my current life circumstances and yes external factors do affect my will power. This hasn't been an easy adjustment by any means, but having low mental energy definitely only exacerbates matter. With all of this in mind, veganism ends up becoming an austere way of life...for me. This may not make sense to you, which just means you have a very strong willpower and don't let external or internal factors affect you and that's good for you. I'm just not there yet. That is not the same as being dishonest.


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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:06 am 
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Yeah, I understand how you could take what I said that way, and I don't like to condescend, but I'm just calling it how I see it, it's not my intention to judge, just trying to get it straight. I don't understand how you can criticize the vegan diet, saying you can't find the nutrition and feeling of satisfaction that you want - then when you drop veganism, you eat pizza, chocolate and cake. I'd understand if you were eating some kind of lean meats, chicken, or even whey protein powder or something. But to go onto junk food, after you talk about nutrition, doesn't make sense to me. So that's why I say it seems dishonest - and more like cravings, rather than seeking genuine healthy, satisfying alternatives.

Also, giving in to cravings doesn't necessarily mean coming off veganism, there are all kinds of junk you can eat as a vegan if you want comfort food. I can't get my head around calling it austere / ascetic :D When I first became vegan, I did have some non-vegan slip ups along the way. These days I don't, but I do have slip ups with eating vegan junk food. I mean, there's just everything available, from ice cream, to chocolate, to burgers and candy... I have to work hard to avoid that temptation, I limit myself within veganism to watch my weight. I don't feel like veganism is the restriction - I could be eating all kinds of things - rather healthy eating is my restriction, which would be the same, vegan or not.

But what might work better for you is doing veganism one day out of the week to begin with, it might be less pressure mentally. Then build up doing two days, three etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:02 am 
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Manatee

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aspirant, i have to say i'm personally pretty free of all food cravings, but if you arent, it will take willpower to just stop those things

personally, i developed a distaste for meat - the reality that i was being fed dead, ground up animals was revolting, and at a very young age(i think around 9-12) and went vegetarian with very little, if any cravings for meat foods, though my diet was still pretty junky, lots of nachos, white bread, processed foods/chips etc, not caring much about what i ate (though at that age it didnt matter as much), though i avoided milk/yoghurt products, still used cheeses, until i was about 16 or 17 and just made a decision "why don't i care about my diet"- and cleaned it up, then more recently, like a year or two ago, i started avoiding the last few animal products i still used, and recently changed my diet for muscle building

anyhow, in my case, nutritional gaps/lack of strength etc wasn't a problem, and i'm not very susceptible to cravings, i never looked back when i for example, gave an extra animal product up, or say, a junk food, though i had a long time to adjust

it's hard to give up foods when you're still attached to them,perhaps similar to (but not as extreme as) quitting smoking for some people

my best advice would be to try to develop a mental distaste for the chocolate/cakes/whatever you want to get rid of, avoid those foods, then never look back- for me, i the earliest experience i could remember was, when i was at a friends house for dinner, they had sausages, and vegetable type things, i remember just looking at the sausage, i ate about a quater of it, and i remember fat or oil oozing out of it, and i just thought- why do our parents feed this to us? it's disgusting, it cant be healthy, and the idea stuck with me


PS if you're a fan of very dark chocolate, there are some that are vegan- i usually get an 80% once a year for easter, and there's vegan pancakes you can make that are nearly identical to a bowl of oats ( in ingredients)


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 Post subject: Re: Fallen back...
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Quote:
I don't understand how you can criticize the vegan diet, saying you can't find the nutrition and feeling of satisfaction that you want - then when you drop veganism, you eat pizza, chocolate and cake


Well obviously those are not the only things I eat but I like to have the freedom to eat tasty unhealthy stuff and when I go without those treats for too long, I start twitching and eventually end up compensating heavily (and gaining weight in the process). If I could find vegan alternatives (other than falafel engulfed in meat fat or shitty subway sandwiches), i.e. vegan junk in my local area, I'd chose those over non vegan junk in a heart beat. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the extreme price difference in vegan junk vs non vegan junk. You'd think veggies were cheaper than meat and dairy, but vegan junk is up to 7 times as expensive and at least 4 times as expensive as non vegan junk. Unfortunately I don't have an unrestricted budget, so I have to count that in as well when needing to comfort eat.


Quote:
I'd understand if you were eating some kind of lean meats, chicken, or even whey protein powder or something. But to go onto junk food, after you talk about nutrition, doesn't make sense to me.


Well one can eat unhealthy and still be well nourished, just a matter of how many cheat meals you have in addition to the healthy food you eat. And I "recanted" from veganism... Not vegetarianism. There's still a huge leap from vegetarianism to omnivorism. Had I not cared (sufficiently) about animals I probably would be eating grilled steak, chicken breast, turkey and tuna right now. I would be eating leaner and taking in more protein, that's for sure - not so much because it is lean, but because I naturally love the taste of the aforementioned meats and used to eat quite a lot of chicken breast whether on cut or bulk.

But the thought of going back to eating meat is so demoralising that if I did it, I think I might end up with some kind of depression... So I'd rather not test my emotional health for the time being, my life is pretty hectic as it is...

Anyway I was tempted quite a lot today, but twice managed to steer away from non vegan food and ended up burning some money on vegan junk instead (was down town). I think I'll just take it one day at a time and try to appreciate the moment. I still have veganism as an ideal. Hopefully, once I have a functional fridge and my kitchen is fully done up, I can buy unprocessed food and store it properly as well as prepare my own food in the oven. If I start whining after that, then I'd indeed be dishonest to my vegan ideals.



Muchidna wrote:
it's hard to give up foods when you're still attached to them,perhaps similar to (but not as extreme as) quitting smoking for some people



In my case I'd say it is equivalent to quitting smoking. Some people smoke weed, drink, sleep around or whatever to alleviate stress... I "just" eat, seeing as I'm too much of a "prude" to engage in anything more severe than that, not to mention I hate the taste of alcohol... Wish I could think away my Asthma and maybe develop a liking for weed to take off the edge instead of food lol.


Muchidna wrote:
]my best advice would be to try to develop a mental distaste for the chocolate/cakes/whatever you want to get rid of, avoid those foods, then never look back-


You know you're right. I mean mental distaste for meat is the reason I've "degenerated" to vegetarianism as opposed to omnivorism. And to be honest I have a mental distaste for dairy as well and even more so for eggs, it's just that it is not sufficiently heinous (in comparison to eating animal carcasses) for me to mentally recant from and often a time the other ingredients in a given food/sweet will numb the taste of eggs or butter, that I can sort of block it out, if that makes sense? Can't say the same for cheese though, I like the pure taste of cheese, which is weird because up until I was a young teenager I actually despised it unless it was on pizza.

You are right though, this is most likely due to a fundamental lack of self-care... I should care more, or rather care sufficiently about the well being of my body to be eating better and more clean. Sometimes I brag about how I eat for 3 people but work out for 4 (really it's just a defence mechanism) and a regular at the gym said something that really made me think... He told me I'm abusing my body and should instead just be eating and working out for 1 person. I guess moderation is the key for me... As far as eggs/dairy products go, I have to - somehow- enlist them on my "no-go-whatever-the-case" mental scheme. As a kid, visualising eggs coming out of a hen's beep, would do the trick... Perhaps Is should go back to my infantile imaginations :-p


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