Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:11 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:30 pm 
Offline
Rabbit

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 47
thanks ;) I'll follow your posts with with more interest from now on. You seem a very highly knowledgeable poster.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:59 pm 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 812
yepes wrote:
thanks ;) I'll follow your posts with with more interest from now on. You seem a very highly knowledgeable poster.

Oh, it's mutual!

_________________
--
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:17 pm 
Offline
Rabbit

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 47
thanks mate ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:16 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:30 am
Posts: 184
Location: Atlanta, GA
HIT Rob wrote:
Scott Shetler wrote:
redsoxjss wrote:
I am not yet a raw foodist but I am leaning heavily towards becoming one. I am an athlete when it comes to running, playing five sports competitively (basketball, baseball, soccer, golf and ultimate frisbee) as well as a weightlifter I am very into calisthenics. I like to train with weights three or four times a week for about an hour each session and do high intensity cardio a couple times a week and steady paced cardio (like running or swimming long distances) two or three times a week.

Eating the right amount of calories to support my body weight was relatively easy but if I become a raw foodist, I am concerned I will lose muscle mass. I am currently 6'0 and weigh 185 pounds (17 years old), I've put on around 15 pounds of lean muscle since I began working out a year and a half ago.

If I went on a raw food diet I would really be getting my protein from nuts and seeds as fruits and vegetables don't provide as much but you can only eat so much. They cost a lot and have twice as much fat (which is good fuel) as they do protein but I still can't imagine myself getting more than 35-50g of protein a day. Could I supplement with pea, rice or hemp protein? I don't know if those powders are actually considered raw anymore. Also do those have toxic chemicals in them? I want to detoxify my body as well. If anyone has any advice for me, the newbie, it would be greatly appreciated.


redsoxjss,

I share your interest in the raw food approach. Actually right now I consume what many refer to as a "high raw" approach to nutrition. It's roughly 75% raw vegan, 20% cooked vegan, and 5% "free" foods which I do my best to keep plant-based as well. Eating out is the biggest issue for me, although I live in Atlanta and we have a few great vegan restaurants and even a couple that cater to raw vegan dishes. Also, a couple times a year I will go on 100% raw spurts and never have any issues. My energy is always good and I certainly haven't atrophied. There is a gentleman named Danny Dalton who is featured in a documentary on raw vegan bodybuilders - in fact there is a 10:00 clip available on YouTube if you search "Danny Dalton raw vegan muscle". He is in his 50's, and is very lean and muscular. I began following him on Facebook and purchased his e-book, essentially he eats 1 sometimes 2 meals a day, totally raw, 1/3 greens, 1/3 other vegetables and fruit, and 1/3 nuts and seeds. He claims initially when you eat totally raw the body detoxifies and you lose a lot of weight and with it some muscle, but he said he was able to rebuild muscle and stay lean following a raw approach. There are some others profiled on the documentary as well and is worth looking into if you are interested in the totally raw approach. It can certainly be done if that's the route you want to go, just look to those who currently do it for guidance. Good luck to you!

Scott


Hi Scott,

Sorry i know this post was to Redsox, but i watched the video myself..

The individual Danny Daltan, indeed is in decent shape for a man of he's age, he doesn't overtraining which is also a good. (i know you mentioned this) but it disputes me when he talks about how over a 2 year period he lost a considerable amount of weight (including healthy weight) switching to a raw food diet, to the point were his family were becoming concerned for his well being, he states himself, he couldn't even look at himself in the mirror it got that ugly, a registered dietitian would called that an eating disorder.

He states that this was due to his body detoxifying, i would disagree with that, whether he realizes it or not, modern man's/homo sapiens digestive system has not evolved to have the capacity to digest huge quantities of raw foods, It shows this in the video i posted in early in this thread.
Now, he has rebuilt hes body, and looks like hes in good shape, i suspect his body has possibly began to adapt to this extreme change of lifestyle, but imo, the average trainee / person does not need to put the body through such an ordeal to become healthier.

I must point out, i am not against having some raw foods in one's diet, its perfectly healthy, but there are also plenty of perfectly good healthy nutritious food's, raw foodist's are missing out on simply because those food's need to be cooked. I fear there's more to it than just cooking food for the raw foodist, many off them talk about being "at one with nature" or "more spiritual", i have no issues with this, whatever makes them happy, they're doing me no harm, but i wont mistake what their saying as real information.


Rob,

I certainly respect what you're saying but disagree with your comment that it's not "real" information. There are plenty of people out there aside from Danny who not only follow but thrive on a raw vegan diet and there are numerous cases where people have successfully overcome chronic disease due to this way of eating. Certainly it isn't the only way, but to say it's not real is false as people do it daily. Perhaps it doesn't line up with your personal beliefs yes, but to say it isn't real information is a stretch. Plenty of people consume large amounts of raw food on a daily basis and seem to process and digest it just fine. I know many people don't have the same success - I think due to individual's own unique biochemistry would have a greater affect on how they process foods whether they be cooked or raw. Oh, and registered dietitians? Considering some still recommend the classic "food pyramid" I'll try not to mistake what they all say as "real information" either! ;-)

Please don't take this post as argumentative, just sharing my thoughts on the topic!

Best,
Scott

_________________
-Scott

“Every human being is the author of his own health or disease.” -Buddha
http://www.extreme-fitness.org
http://www.scottshetler.com
http://www.plantbasedperformance.org


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:28 pm 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 812
Scott Shetler wrote:
I certainly respect what you're saying but disagree with your comment that it's not "real" information. There are plenty of people out there aside from Danny who not only follow but thrive on a raw vegan diet and there are numerous cases where people have successfully overcome chronic disease due to this way of eating.

"Due to" is your problem there. There's no evidence it was "due to" this way of eating. They have a belief, maybe, but it's based on correlation, not evidence.

Scott Shetler wrote:
Certainly it isn't the only way, but to say it's not real is false as people do it daily. Perhaps it doesn't line up with your personal beliefs yes, but to say it isn't real information is a stretch. Plenty of people consume large amounts of raw food on a daily basis and seem to process and digest it just fine. I know many people don't have the same success - I think due to individual's own unique biochemistry would have a greater affect on how they process foods whether they be cooked or raw. Oh, and registered dietitians? Considering some still recommend the classic "food pyramid" I'll try not to mistake what they all say as "real information" either! ;-)

It's "real" information, but it's anecdotal and uncontrolled, so it's not worth much. I think it's pretty well accepted that people can live fine on a raw vegan diet, sure. It's just when other claims come in that things get sketchy. Curing diseases, "detoxifying," etc. Humans, nearly all of us, are incredibly stupid when it comes to correlation and confirmation bias.

_________________
--
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:10 pm 
Offline
Manatee

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 499
Scott[/quote]

Hi Scott,

Sorry i know this post was to Redsox, but i watched the video myself..

The individual Danny Daltan, indeed is in decent shape for a man of he's age, he doesn't overtraining which is also a good. (i know you mentioned this) but it disputes me when he talks about how over a 2 year period he lost a considerable amount of weight (including healthy weight) switching to a raw food diet, to the point were his family were becoming concerned for his well being, he states himself, he couldn't even look at himself in the mirror it got that ugly, a registered dietitian would called that an eating disorder.

He states that this was due to his body detoxifying, i would disagree with that, whether he realizes it or not, modern man's/homo sapiens digestive system has not evolved to have the capacity to digest huge quantities of raw foods, It shows this in the video i posted in early in this thread.
Now, he has rebuilt hes body, and looks like hes in good shape, i suspect his body has possibly began to adapt to this extreme change of lifestyle, but imo, the average trainee / person does not need to put the body through such an ordeal to become healthier.

I must point out, i am not against having some raw foods in one's diet, its perfectly healthy, but there are also plenty of perfectly good healthy nutritious food's, raw foodist's are missing out on simply because those food's need to be cooked. I fear there's more to it than just cooking food for the raw foodist, many off them talk about being "at one with nature" or "more spiritual", i have no issues with this, whatever makes them happy, they're doing me no harm, but i wont mistake what their saying as real information.[/quote]

Rob,

I certainly respect what you're saying but disagree with your comment that it's not "real" information. There are plenty of people out there aside from Danny who not only follow but thrive on a raw vegan diet and there are numerous cases where people have successfully overcome chronic disease due to this way of eating. Certainly it isn't the only way, but to say it's not real is false as people do it daily. Perhaps it doesn't line up with your personal beliefs yes, but to say it isn't real information is a stretch. Plenty of people consume large amounts of raw food on a daily basis and seem to process and digest it just fine. I know many people don't have the same success - I think due to individual's own unique biochemistry would have a greater affect on how they process foods whether they be cooked or raw. Oh, and registered dietitians? Considering some still recommend the classic "food pyramid" I'll try not to mistake what they all say as "real information" either! ;-)

Please don't take this post as argumentative, just sharing my thoughts on the topic!

Best,
Scott[/quote]

Not a all mate, no worries:)

Sorry Scott, i should have been more specific when i said "real info", i'm not talking about the raw food diet itself, i'm talking about when raw foodist being talking about being "more spiritual", and being "at one with nature" from following such an eating plan.

Indeed there are scientist and raw foodist's who will disagree with my opinion, and visa versa, which is fine, however some of the points i made are not subjective. As to how some individuals digestive system can tolerate such eating habits is beyond me, just as how my grandfather was able to smoke 20-30 cigarettes a day from the age of 15 to the age of 98 and not get cancer or have a stroke or heart attack..lol

Best
Rob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:06 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:30 am
Posts: 184
Location: Atlanta, GA
blabbate wrote:
Scott Shetler wrote:
I certainly respect what you're saying but disagree with your comment that it's not "real" information. There are plenty of people out there aside from Danny who not only follow but thrive on a raw vegan diet and there are numerous cases where people have successfully overcome chronic disease due to this way of eating.

"Due to" is your problem there. There's no evidence it was "due to" this way of eating. They have a belief, maybe, but it's based on correlation, not evidence.

Scott Shetler wrote:
Certainly it isn't the only way, but to say it's not real is false as people do it daily. Perhaps it doesn't line up with your personal beliefs yes, but to say it isn't real information is a stretch. Plenty of people consume large amounts of raw food on a daily basis and seem to process and digest it just fine. I know many people don't have the same success - I think due to individual's own unique biochemistry would have a greater affect on how they process foods whether they be cooked or raw. Oh, and registered dietitians? Considering some still recommend the classic "food pyramid" I'll try not to mistake what they all say as "real information" either! ;-)

It's "real" information, but it's anecdotal and uncontrolled, so it's not worth much. I think it's pretty well accepted that people can live fine on a raw vegan diet, sure. It's just when other claims come in that things get sketchy. Curing diseases, "detoxifying," etc. Humans, nearly all of us, are incredibly stupid when it comes to correlation and confirmation bias.


That's a bunch of BS-look at the work of Dr Gabriel Cousens and what he's done with diabetics using a raw food diet. He was an MD who became a naturopathic physician when he realized prescribing meds wasn't curing diabetes. Now he regularly gets diabetics off their meds and blood sugar in the normal range through a raw food approach. But then again it could be "due to" the weather in the SW USA where his center is located.... Using a predominately raw diet with a heavy emphasis on juicing comes from Dr. Gerson and his years of work and research with his patients. How about Dr. Esselstyne using a plant based diet to reverse disease in his cardiac patients? Not enough double blind placebo controlled peer reviewed studies there for you there either?

_________________
-Scott

“Every human being is the author of his own health or disease.” -Buddha
http://www.extreme-fitness.org
http://www.scottshetler.com
http://www.plantbasedperformance.org


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:13 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:30 am
Posts: 184
Location: Atlanta, GA
HIT Rob wrote:
Scott


Hi Scott,

Sorry i know this post was to Redsox, but i watched the video myself..

The individual Danny Daltan, indeed is in decent shape for a man of he's age, he doesn't overtraining which is also a good. (i know you mentioned this) but it disputes me when he talks about how over a 2 year period he lost a considerable amount of weight (including healthy weight) switching to a raw food diet, to the point were his family were becoming concerned for his well being, he states himself, he couldn't even look at himself in the mirror it got that ugly, a registered dietitian would called that an eating disorder.

He states that this was due to his body detoxifying, i would disagree with that, whether he realizes it or not, modern man's/homo sapiens digestive system has not evolved to have the capacity to digest huge quantities of raw foods, It shows this in the video i posted in early in this thread.
Now, he has rebuilt hes body, and looks like hes in good shape, i suspect his body has possibly began to adapt to this extreme change of lifestyle, but imo, the average trainee / person does not need to put the body through such an ordeal to become healthier.

I must point out, i am not against having some raw foods in one's diet, its perfectly healthy, but there are also plenty of perfectly good healthy nutritious food's, raw foodist's are missing out on simply because those food's need to be cooked. I fear there's more to it than just cooking food for the raw foodist, many off them talk about being "at one with nature" or "more spiritual", i have no issues with this, whatever makes them happy, they're doing me no harm, but i wont mistake what their saying as real information.[/quote]

Rob,

I certainly respect what you're saying but disagree with your comment that it's not "real" information. There are plenty of people out there aside from Danny who not only follow but thrive on a raw vegan diet and there are numerous cases where people have successfully overcome chronic disease due to this way of eating. Certainly it isn't the only way, but to say it's not real is false as people do it daily. Perhaps it doesn't line up with your personal beliefs yes, but to say it isn't real information is a stretch. Plenty of people consume large amounts of raw food on a daily basis and seem to process and digest it just fine. I know many people don't have the same success - I think due to individual's own unique biochemistry would have a greater affect on how they process foods whether they be cooked or raw. Oh, and registered dietitians? Considering some still recommend the classic "food pyramid" I'll try not to mistake what they all say as "real information" either! ;-)

Please don't take this post as argumentative, just sharing my thoughts on the topic!

Best,
Scott[/quote]

Not a all mate, no worries:)

Sorry Scott, i should have been more specific when i said "real info", i'm not talking about the raw food diet itself, i'm talking about when raw foodist being talking about being "more spiritual", and being "at one with nature" from following such an eating plan.

Indeed there are scientist and raw foodist's who will disagree with my opinion, and visa versa, which is fine, however some of the points i made are not subjective. As to how some individuals digestive system can tolerate such eating habits is beyond me, just as how my grandfather was able to smoke 20-30 cigarettes a day from the age of 15 to the age of 98 and not get cancer or have a stroke or heart attack..lol

Best
Rob[/quote]

I don't think food choices make you more spiritual, but I do think the majority of people I meet who follow a plant based diet-raw or not-tend to have a deeper connection to the environment and all living things. As far as food making you spiritual, hell in Alan Watt's book "The Way of Zen" he states that on the eve of the Buddha's enlightenment he "gave up, he relaxed his ascetic diet and simply ate some nourishing food." LOL

_________________
-Scott

“Every human being is the author of his own health or disease.” -Buddha
http://www.extreme-fitness.org
http://www.scottshetler.com
http://www.plantbasedperformance.org


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:04 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 812
Scott Shetler wrote:
That's a bunch of BS-look at the work of Dr Gabriel Cousens and what he's done with diabetics using a raw food diet. He was an MD who became a naturopathic physician when he realized prescribing meds wasn't curing diabetes. Now he regularly gets diabetics off their meds and blood sugar in the normal range through a raw food approach. But then again it could be "due to" the weather in the SW USA where his center is located.... Using a predominately raw diet with a heavy emphasis on juicing comes from Dr. Gerson and his years of work and research with his patients. How about Dr. Esselstyne using a plant based diet to reverse disease in his cardiac patients? Not enough double blind placebo controlled peer reviewed studies there for you there either?

Well now, after mentioning Cousens, I think you might just be kidding around. He claims to be a homeopath and "reiki master," and I'm not aware of him providing any actual evidence that he can get diabetics off insulin outside of the Simply Raw documentary, which is, frankly, a mess (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/sim ... ood-diets/). He can make all the claims he wants, but until he provides actual evidence, they're meaningless.

As for Esselstyn, that's correct, not enough studies. In fact, Esselstyn goes beyond simple lack of evidence into the realm of dishonesty, brushing over the fact that in his research he puts his subjects on statins, instead claiming all the effects -- which are dubious anyway -- are due to diet. And yes, his work is uncontrolled. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065)

I'm not saying that diet can't have dramatic effects on health. Of course it can. Depending on the person and diet, it can reduce the need for medications, including insulin. It can certainly reduce the risk and severity of heart disease. However, truly drastic changes are rare, and the same diet isn't going to work for everyone. Raw foods aren't a panacea. This is why we do the research and collect actual evidence. Otherwise we'd have a thousand different ineffective treatments for every ailment.

_________________
--
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consuming Enough Protein on a Raw Food Diet
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:26 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:30 am
Posts: 184
Location: Atlanta, GA
blabbate wrote:
Scott Shetler wrote:
That's a bunch of BS-look at the work of Dr Gabriel Cousens and what he's done with diabetics using a raw food diet. He was an MD who became a naturopathic physician when he realized prescribing meds wasn't curing diabetes. Now he regularly gets diabetics off their meds and blood sugar in the normal range through a raw food approach. But then again it could be "due to" the weather in the SW USA where his center is located.... Using a predominately raw diet with a heavy emphasis on juicing comes from Dr. Gerson and his years of work and research with his patients. How about Dr. Esselstyne using a plant based diet to reverse disease in his cardiac patients? Not enough double blind placebo controlled peer reviewed studies there for you there either?

Well now, after mentioning Cousens, I think you might just be kidding around. He claims to be a homeopath and "reiki master," and I'm not aware of him providing any actual evidence that he can get diabetics off insulin outside of the Simply Raw documentary, which is, frankly, a mess (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/sim ... ood-diets/). He can make all the claims he wants, but until he provides actual evidence, they're meaningless.

As for Esselstyn, that's correct, not enough studies. In fact, Esselstyn goes beyond simple lack of evidence into the realm of dishonesty, brushing over the fact that in his research he puts his subjects on statins, instead claiming all the effects -- which are dubious anyway -- are due to diet. And yes, his work is uncontrolled. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065)

I'm not saying that diet can't have dramatic effects on health. Of course it can. Depending on the person and diet, it can reduce the need for medications, including insulin. It can certainly reduce the risk and severity of heart disease. However, truly drastic changes are rare, and the same diet isn't going to work for everyone. Raw foods aren't a panacea. This is why we do the research and collect actual evidence. Otherwise we'd have a thousand different ineffective treatments for every ailment.


Wow - I wasn't aware. Thanks!!!

_________________
-Scott

“Every human being is the author of his own health or disease.” -Buddha
http://www.extreme-fitness.org
http://www.scottshetler.com
http://www.plantbasedperformance.org


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS } Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group