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 Post subject: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 5
I've been doing some online research on nutrition and what I have been finding has been less than satisfactory. I am a omnivore, and am looking to improve my knowledge on the plant side of my diet as it pertains to powerlifting. So I come to this community to learn what you guys do, to integrate and refine my own diet to optimize my own performance. So my questions are these:

1) In consuming plant-based proteins, how do vegans typically measure their intake to ensure they are complete? Do people typically mix equal parts incomplete proteins, or favour those food sources richer in BCAAs?

2) Has anyone gone through a significant bulking phase (moved up a weight class or two)? What food sources do you use to consume 4000+ calories per day while ensuring 2g protein/kg BW? I've found some vegan diets online of a 'eat this to gain muscle' sort. However, these do not give the way, nor list the number of calories relative to activity.

What I am hoping for is finding out more information on these topics, be it personal experiences or links to reputable information sources. Thanks for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:18 pm 
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VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:13 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
Firstly a big welcome to the forum, thanks for signing up and I do hope you stay around and add to all the discussions on here. I started up this powerlifting section of the forum a few months back, it's still relatively new but there's already a good amount of info (and motivation) in there. Speaking from my own experience, I'll answer your comments in red as best as I can.

1) In consuming plant-based proteins, how do vegans typically measure their intake to ensure they are complete? Do people typically mix equal parts incomplete proteins, or favour those food sources richer in BCAAs?

I personally don't measure anything I eat, I don't know how much protein I eat or carbs but I don't think I have ever had a problem gaining muscle and strength (bodyweight yes, but I know that's because I never really consistently eaten a large enough daily caloric in take). I pretty much just eat when I am hungry ensuring that I eat regularly throughout the day; what I eat and the portion sizes depend on what I need to be doing with my weight. Funnily enough the first time I competed in a powerlifting meet I was 150lb, then I dropped down to the 130-145lb class and now I am planning on dropping down to the 117-130 class when I next compete. So far I have managed to continue to increase my strength, being considerably stronger weighing 139 than I was at 150. In terms of BCAA's I use a pea protein that contains 9 essential and 9 non-essential BCAA's, everything else I just get through food.

2) Has anyone gone through a significant bulking phase (moved up a weight class or two)? What food sources do you use to consume 4000+ calories per day while ensuring 2g/kg BW? I've found some vegan diets online of a 'eat this to gain muscle' sort. However, these do not give the way, nor list the number of calories relative to activity.

My competition bodyweight compared to what I am when I'm training isn't too far apart, when I want to add weight I'll just increase my healthy fat intake such as coconut oil, avocados, raw nuts and take more of my omega 3 oils (I use one that sources EPA/DHA from microalgae). I eat similar foods but probably add in more snacks through the day and increase the portion sizes a little. I'm interested to hear what people are eating to consistently be hitting 4,000cals a day though :?


Good luck with your training, look forward to seeing you posting more around the forum. Have you competed before or are you looking at getting into it for the first time? Kind regards and all the best with everything MF.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 5
I've been powerlifting for a year, and before that was doing ultra-marathons. First meet I competed in the 165 class. After that, in playing around with my program (mostly in regards to volume of assistance work), and went up 10lb lean over the next four months. As is, while my lifts are progressing well, I'm approaching the 181 limit, so I'm looking for avenues to maintain nutrition while curbing anabolism. Currently the national records in Canada for my federation for all three are all within 14 months if the programming holds. After that, my plan is to move up to the 196.

Down to 130 is pretty amazing. At 181 I am in an almost non-existent weight class. I can only imagine how few people there are with you in your class.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:03 pm 
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VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
Good luck with your goals, funny how we are both ultrarunners as well. I've only ever come across one other guy (Dominic Cadden) that manages to combine both sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:07 pm 
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VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
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What programme do you run now ~ is it the same as what you ran in the past?

How do you go in the 165 class? Yeah I hear what you are saying, the 130-145 class can be reasonably competitive over here IF everyone shows up for it. There are a few guys that bounce between a couple of classes, and my main competition has moved up a class now. As for the 117-130 class, there seems like there's just one guy who has a record set in the deadlift which is 187.5kg. Pretty confident I can beat that.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:32 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 5
I pretty much stopped with the running after doing a 50 miler last summer. Before that race, I had started doing more strength training, getting up to 155-160. It made me the bulkiest runner there. In going over the results the guy who place first (about 6hr ahead of me) had the look of a cancer patient. So, given what is necessary to excel in that sport, I decided to keep the mass and move to powerlifting.

For my programming: 5/3/1 for core lifts. If the programming holds, I'm looking at BW OHP in 6 month, a 3xBW DL in 12, and 300lb BP in 12. After that, 5x5 for compound assistance work, and 6-8x4 for single-joint assistance work.

Here's another question I have about vegan athletes: many keep single digit body fat throughout the year. In the event of illness/virus, what is done to prevent serious catabolism as there is very little fat to provide a reserve of energy?


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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Good luck. In terms of the illness comment, I've had a few bad stomach bugs. I just tend to drop more weight but then as soon as I am better ~ eating again and back at the gym I put the weight straight back on.

What time did you finish the 50miler in, which one was it? I did a 70km offroad ultra a few years back, was a lot of climbing in it and the elevation was pretty full on (see the attached pic)... took me 11hr20!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:22 pm
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It was the Arc'teryx Squamish 50 miler. 3500m elevation change, done in 13:14. On three months training, goal was just to finish. I may still do the odd marathon, but I don't think I'll ever do more than a 50km as long as my focus is powerlifting. Too much difference on the neural adaptations.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:22 pm 
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VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
atavist wrote:
Too much difference on the neural adaptations.

I agree, it's near impossible to be good at both. I limit my running when I'm lifting but I do find that I can switch between the two very easily. Even after a couple of years powerlifting, when I went back to running I was up to 30km runs after just a couple of weeks. It really messes with my head though, what with losing the strength and muscle that took you ages to develop :(

I really like the 50km distance, just that extra 45-60mins on top of a marathon but not really a crazy distance and pretty easy to recover from. 50milers are a whole different ball game however. I've often thought it must be great being an ultrarunner in the States, you have so many great races at your disposal.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:03 am 
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Finch

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:22 pm
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With your running, that may be a good way to get the minimum catabolism you are looking for to get to the 130. Lose mass a few pounds at a time via the running, hold for a period for you body to adapt to the strength demands for the mass so you don't lose power, then do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-vegan looking to learn more
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:03 pm 
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VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:13 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
Thanks, yeah that's pretty much what I'm doing except I'm walking rather than running. Combining that with a slight caloric and carb restriction, like you said it needs to be a gradual process in order to not lose any strength whilst allowing my body to adapt to a new, lighter bodyweight.

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