Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:08 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:11 pm 
Offline
Rabbit

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:19 am
Posts: 14
hi, i´ve been dealing with this problem and have search for info everywhere but i dont know what i should do. As an ectomorph i am quite thin and hardgainer, except for my belly... ive get rid of most of it but i cant get rid of the last fat layer. ive read that as ectomorph i should not be doing cardio, but if i dont do cardio i wont burn this fat. also because i am an ectomorph i eat huge amounts of food... so, what should i do? should i try, for example, 5-10 min cardio post workout? one day 45min cardio? what would it be better?

thanx


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:29 pm 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 512
Hi Aloxis...

I don't recommend it!

I recommend you read these articles from two very experienced world renowned H.I.T trainers...

http://www.mikementzer.com/aerobic.html
http://baye.com/fat-loss-myths-part-2-c ... -fat-loss/

Since dropping cardio out of my regime years ago, i've had no trouble losing over 50lbs of fat (by simply coming in under a maintenance level of calories), moreover, my joints and connective tissues are feeling a LOT better, and i've become a hellva a lot stronger, plus added considerable muscle to my frame:) Am a high intensity training bodybuilder Aloxis, am not an endurance athlete, there two different things altogether, with completely different approach's.

My trainer John Martini (the current overall Mr Northern Ireland BB champion), also is of the same opinion as myself. He's currently just 6 days out from this years NABBA Mr Universe, were he'll compete against the likes of former IFBB Pro Lee Priest.
In this video (filmed 8 weeks ago), John talks about his views on cardio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_T5jNAZLA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:53 pm 
Offline
VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:13 am
Posts: 3842
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
Well I'll politely disagree with Rob :shock: Cardio should be done on some level (even if it's just brisk walking on an incline). You don't even have to set aside a lot of time for it, it could be as simple as regularly using the stairs instead of the elevator or walking to work a couple of days every week. Regular cardio has has numerous benefits such as:

** Heart health/protection (increased bloodflow which means greater nutrient delivery as well as improving your BP and cholesterol panel)
** Stimulation of certain brain chemicals responsible for improving mood and general well-being
** Improved heart and lung health
** Increasing your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate)
** Mobilisation of fatty acids from adipose tissue and lipolysis

I'm an ectomorph as well, so if your goal is to gain size and muscle then doing large amounts of cardio is going to be counter-productive. BUT I am still of the belief that you should be doing a little on top of your weight training to maintain good CV health and optimal biomarkers (HDL/LDL, blood levels of omega 3 HUFA's, blood serum/plasma, AST and ALT levels in the liver etc) for CV risk management.

_________________
Feel free to find me...

Image @MiniForklift
WEB: http://www.jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:56 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 512
Hi MF,

All very true...

Though all those same (if not better) benefits can be had with a well constructed strength training program, in fact, Arthur Jones did research into this very topic...
based on the evidence, he concluded...http://denmark.concept1010.com/2011/11/ ... jones-etc/

If you 5 minutes MF, watch this Dr Doug Mcguff (ER physician, body by science co-author, and owner/trainer of Ultimate Exercise HIT facility) video on cardio, from a scientific stand point, no one articulates it better than he:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_abCD_17lCk


Last edited by HIT Rob on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:52 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 813
HIT Rob:

I'm willing to believe. I want to believe. But I'm still skeptical.

How do your workouts look in general when you're trying to get that high-level of cardiovascular stress?

_________________
--
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:50 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 512
Hit Blabbate,

Indeed, your right to be skeptical, no person should take anything on faith...

A few things Blabbate...

First, i use a slow cadence on every movement, this reduces momentum, and creates a deeper level of fatigue within the muscles, which in turn also produces greater vascular benefits.
Doug Mcguff explains it better in this short interview, listen careful to what he says to the local cardiologists comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FrP5k2_B9Q

Secondly, My workouts are fast paced, literately, its from one movement to the next, just enough time to resist mentally, then boom!
My workouts last a mere 12-20 minutes, however this is not important, its the quality of work that's important. I find myself sometimes lying on the floor for 10 minutes after these workouts.

My resting heart rate it better than ever, even at 235lbs, its usually sitting at around 50 bpm. Years ago when i ran or cycled almost every day my resting heart rate would have sat at around 65-70 bpm (and that was at a lighter bodyweight). Moreover, i suffered greatly with knee, hip and connective tissue problems when running and cyclying, as steady state exercise is "low intensity high force exercise", as opposed to H.I.T with weights which is "high intensity low force exercise".


Last edited by HIT Rob on Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:56 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 813
HIT Rob wrote:
Hit Blabbate,

Indeed, your right to be skeptical, no person should take anything on faith...

A few things Blabbate...

First, i use a slow cadence on every movement, this reduces momentum, and creates a deeper level of fatigue within the muscles, which in turn also produces greater vascular benefits.
Doug Mcguff explains it better in this short interview, listen careful to what he says to the local cardiologists comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FrP5k2_B9Q

Secondly, My workouts are fast paced, literately, its from one movement to the next, just enough time to resist mentally, then boom!
My workouts last a mere 12-20 minutes, however this is not important, its the quality of work that's important. I find myself sometimes lying on the floor for 10 minutes after these workouts.

My rest heart rate it better than ever, even at 235lbs my resting heart rate is usually sitting at around 50 bpm. Years ago when i ran or cycled almost every day my resting heart rate would have sat at around 65-70 bpm (and that was at a lighter bodyweight). Moreover, i suffered greatly with knee, hip and connective tissue problems, as steady state exercise is "low intensity high force exercise", as apposed to H.I.T with weights which is "high intensity low force exercise".


Hmm. Interesting. So for a max effort workout, I'd probably be shortening my rests. Normally I'll do 3 minutes between heavy sets, 1.5 between light or assistance sets. Just enough time to get back to something approaching full strength.

I fully agree with the heart rate and injury stuff. I've always had more trouble with my knees and hips from jogging than from anything else. The repetitive stress is brutal. I'm sure some people can take it, but not me.

_________________
--
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:19 pm 
Offline
VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:13 am
Posts: 3842
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
The RHR (resting heart rate) is a funny thing. Mine is pretty much the same whether I am powerlifting or running (in the high 40's-low 50's usually).

Aloxis, you could easily cover your basic cardio requirements just by doing a 5-10min warmup and cooldown at the end of your weight training.

_________________
Feel free to find me...

Image @MiniForklift
WEB: http://www.jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:16 pm 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 512
Gents,

I must just point out, am not against the odd hike though the valleys or mountains, or a bit of rock climbing or a nice bike ride through the country side every now and then, its a great way to relax and what have you, life's for living, am really just making the point that there more efficient, scientific and safer ways to improve one's overall well being and condition than what the fitness industry would have us believe.

Best wishes
Rob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:01 am 
Offline
VBB Moderator Powerlifter & Ultrarunner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:13 am
Posts: 3842
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand.
Rob, I appreciate your insight buddy. Your opinion is no less valid than anybody else and you offer some solid scientific backing. Cardio is possibly the possibly one area that I agree to differ on with regards to HIT; but my viewpoint is perhaps different as I have always looked at things from purely a longevity and heart-healthy stance, rather than optimising musculature in an individual.

_________________
Feel free to find me...

Image @MiniForklift
WEB: http://www.jimsty.wix.com/strength-vs-size
FB: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mini-Forklift/161273440616736?ref=hl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:20 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 813
Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:
Rob, I appreciate your insight buddy. Your opinion is no less valid than anybody else and you offer some solid scientific backing. Cardio is possibly the possibly one area that I agree to differ on with regards to HIT; but my viewpoint is perhaps different as I have always looked at things from purely a longevity and heart-healthy stance, rather than optimising musculature in an individual.

From the research he posted, though, it looks like cardio isn't necessarily more heart-healthy in the short- or long-term. Intense weight lifting can work your heart just as well and can reduce your RHR and BP just as much. Of course, there's always competing research. :) And I doubt adding or removing a little cardio here and there is going to kill us either way. It's just an interesting perspective.

_________________
--
Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:09 am 
Offline
Rabbit

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:19 am
Posts: 14
thanx for the answers, i will try doing just 5min after my workout and will leave bike tours for summer... winter is coming, which in south east germany is pretty cold...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:17 pm 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 512
Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:
Rob, I appreciate your insight buddy. Your opinion is no less valid than anybody else and you offer some solid scientific backing. Cardio is possibly the possibly one area that I agree to differ on with regards to HIT; but my viewpoint is perhaps different as I have always looked at things from purely a longevity and heart-healthy stance, rather than optimising musculature in an individual.


Hey mate,

I train with all those things in mind too, especially after suffering a stroke 10 years ago, as well as having just the one normal functioning kidney, 2 herniated disc's in my lower back and an irregular HB (if i was a horse they'd put my down lol), the cosmetic or the body beautiful if you will, is the last thing on my list, longevity is like your good self at the forefront of my thinking. The longevity of my joints and connective tissues for example is just one reason why i stopped running and cycling, it was destroying them, my focus in the last few years has shifted towards reducing/minimizing the damage element associated with exercise (even in H.I.T itself), while at he same time, keeping the positive elements.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cardio or no cardio?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:54 am 
Offline
Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 512
blabbate wrote:
Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:
Rob, I appreciate your insight buddy. Your opinion is no less valid than anybody else and you offer some solid scientific backing. Cardio is possibly the possibly one area that I agree to differ on with regards to HIT; but my viewpoint is perhaps different as I have always looked at things from purely a longevity and heart-healthy stance, rather than optimising musculature in an individual.

From the research he posted, though, it looks like cardio isn't necessarily more heart-healthy in the short- or long-term. Intense weight lifting can work your heart just as well and can reduce your RHR and BP just as much. Of course, there's always competing research. :) And I doubt adding or removing a little cardio here and there is going to kill us either way. It's just an interesting perspective.


Hi Blabbate...

There's good and bad research in everything, but with the particular topic, its a fact established physiological fact that the only way you can get at the myocardium is by preforming mechanical work with muscle, and the greater the quality of mechanical work performed with muscle, the greater the vascular benefits.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS } Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group