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 Post subject: Vegans and Straight Edge relationships...
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:16 pm 
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Do you guys usually gravitate toward other people who are vegan in relationships or are you OK with being with someone who doesn't have the same exact value system as you?

My husband and I are like night and day. I have maybe a glass of wine or two a year and don't smoke or do any drugs. I've also been vegan since before he and I met. He eats meat, smokes and drinks and thinks "exercise" is the walk from the house to the truck. :roll: We respect each others differences and he knows that if he wants meat he has to buy and cook it himself. Somehow, despite major differences we're the best of friends and support each others ambitions. There are definately times though that his stubbornness irritates the hell out of me. I don't actively try to change him- because I know that you can't force anyone to change if they aren't ready and willing to- but I hope that through my own examples he'll come around someday.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:30 pm 
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Hrmm I never had a relationship at all in my life to tell you the truth, but being a vegan is a definite plus. I dont consider eating meat in and of itself wrong, but when you add on moral stuff (such as we dont need it to live anymore, the pain of the slaughter, etc) then it makes it a must. Its like saying if you know someone that rapes kids just as an example. Is that person a good person regardless of that flaw? Same as with people that know very well the information behind the meat industry and fur. If they continue to do it with the knowledge on hand, they are no different. Like they say, knowledge is power. With power, you have the ability (no matter how big or small, boycotting is a good example) to change things. If you see that things are good the way (animals being skinned alive for fur, etc) they are, then you dont change it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:33 pm 
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My husband isn't vegan or vegetarian but other than that we are exactly the same. I mean we workout together and neither of us drink or smoke and we're both huge health nuts. Ok , so i'm more of a health nut but he tries :) You know what they say opposites attract.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:40 pm 
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as long as the other person respects me and my beliefs, its cool.
but as of lately.... trying to date girls who arent vegan, who do drink, who do smoke, etc. it just doesn't work out. I do need someone who is also straight edge and vegan like me.


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 Post subject: bobbycore
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:41 am 
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I would never date anyone that smokes or does drugs. It is not something that I want around me at all for health reasons. I do not want to date a balidgerant drunk nor a social drinker that will go spend all her money on booze.

So basically I find ladies, and have found a lady that is as close to edge as you can get.

I wont date someone that eats meat though, it makes it too hard to go out and make dinners.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:14 am 
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While I get along well with most people I meet, I wouldn't want to have an intimate relationship with a meat eater. Veganism is not a casual thing for me, it is right up there with not being a canibal! Would you date a canibal? For me it's not really different, more socially acceptable but not different.

I think alcohol is okay in moderation. Personally, I chose not to drink for most of my life until I was 30. Now I drink occassionally. I don't think it is nearly the moral issue that taking lives to pleasure the taste buds is.

Smoking on the other hand is like a dirrect assault! Someone may as well stroll over and stick poison up my nose as smoke! Smoking brings out my evil side. I just want to smack people in the head and ask them why they are so stupid. :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 12:47 pm 
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michaelhobson wrote:

Smoking on the other hand is like a dirrect assault! Someone may as well stroll over and stick poison up my nose as smoke! Smoking brings out my evil side. I just want to smack people in the head and ask them why they are so stupid. :twisted:


AMEN! People always tell me that smoking is protected under freedom, which the act fully is protected as everyones right to choose to smoke or not smoke. But before we go slapping or hitting people lets read the Merriam-Webster definition for self defense

1 : a plea of justification for the use of force or for homicide
2 : the act of defending oneself, one's property, or a close relative

so the real questions are; if someone is smoking around you can you take action to stop the smoking or do you have to first attempt to verbally halt the harmful act before using reasonable force to stop the smoking.

This is what I do and I only do this in situations where myself, my loved ones or our youth are at stake. I have only had to do this three times that I can remember. 1. ask the person to stop smoking nicely and with your justification as to why they should stop. if they refuse 2. take the cigarette from their mouth and stomp it out. Neither time that I have done this has lead to a fight becuase it does not need to lead there.

I learned to have no tolerance for smoking by helping run or just attending hardcore shows in portland. People would try to smoke in non smoking venues or in areas that young kids had to walk through. I do not appreciate someone close minded enough to smoke in an area that will harm another person who chooses not to smoke.

Ohhh and one more thing. The choice to smoke cigarettes is backed by our freedom of choice, right? Well if those who choose not to smoke are forced to inhale smoke anyway, then what is backing our decision? What is working for us to help create a smoke free atmosphere paralelling our decisions. I took advantage of the smoking ban in my county of Oregon when I lived there and never really appreciated how nice it was. Kentucky is a whole different story though, smoking and burbon is a way of life.

All of the above is why I would never date anyone who smokes and also why I do not eat boca products (owned by phillip morros inc.) even though they are damn tasty.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:38 pm 
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Quote:
While I get along well with most people I meet, I wouldn't want to have an intimate relationship with a meat eater. Veganism is not a casual thing for me, it is right up there with not being a canibal! Would you date a canibal? For me it's not really different, more socially acceptable but not different.


I agree.........veganism is nothing casual for me either........can you tell? 8)

So for me, I also prefer to date other vegans. I've tried dating non-vegans but it just didn't work out. I've been single most of my life and I'm content this way for a little while. I think I love kids more than 99.8% of the people in the world. Working with kids is something I've done for a job for about the last 10 years, off and on and the most fun job I've ever had was working for Celebrity Cruises as a youth supervisor. So one of these days I will be very interested in having kids, but for now I'm just another single vegan out there, who is not impressed by meat-eating, alcohol drinking, cigarette-smoking girls.....Any one of those things is a Major Turn-Off but most girls I meet seem to have at least 2 of those interests.

I've met some really cool single vegan girls, but no intimate relationships have ever come from it. I'm more of a "friend" to most girls I meet, and most of my Best friends I've made over the past few years are girls.

I guess we all look for different things in potential partners but for me some of the BIG Things I look for are that the individual:

Is Vegan
Is Genuinely happy, positive, enthusiastic and caring
LOVES kids and interacts well with them
Enjoys fitness


My brother-in-law always teases me. He married my sister in September and now he always tries to get me to meet girls.......he'll say things like:
"maybe she's vegan, likes kids and likes fitness" because those are the three things I'm always talking about.

Anyway.....yeah, for me, veganism in such a HUGE part of my life that is they way I will go for relationships..................BUT check this out.......my sister, who has been vegan for like 15 years and has been the most influential person in my life, married a non-vegan-non/vegetarian.

And as I've read from the previous posts, some of you on here are married to non-vegans as well, so I know that it can work. But for me, it's weird......even if a girl is really pretty or nice or whatever, but then I see her eat meat, it's such a major turn-off that I'm no longer attracted to them at all. That's just me.

Well, I better finish my sandwich, it has been sitting on the plate while I type this :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:13 pm 
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Elephant
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howdy!

i don't think i could have a relationship with a meateater. she has to be vegetarian at least, because i think you have to share the basic ideologies for a working relationship. so i totally agree with robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:17 pm 
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i think if veganism was purely a health choice i could probably date a non vegan, but as its an ethical choice, i just dont think i could have that much in common with someone who had ethics so drastically different than my own.


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 Post subject: interconnection
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:37 am 
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Yeah, I agree with the majority here. I don't know how a devout vegan can have a strong relationship with a meat-eater. It must be hard, because eating is such a big part of our lives and existence. So every time you sit down to share a meal you are reminded of this big difference. I mean, every time you kiss them you are kissing the carcass of a dead animal. Perhaps, that is a little bid drastic, but still you are sharing a relationship with someone whose beliefes and ideals are totally opposite to yours. And although one may say that diet is the difference, the fact is that many of the values of a conscious vegan are interconnected with their diet choice. It is not to say that a vegetarian shouldn't date a meat-eater however, because by setting a positive example that other person may eventually come around to see things a bit "clearer"! Nonetheless, to those who are in this type of diet-mixed relationship, I wish you luck and hope for the future. I myself am very fortunate to have fiancee who is vegan, like me!


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 Post subject: dating non-vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:55 am 
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Elephant

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the guy that did supersize me, has a vegan wife and I heard an interview with him on NPR. When at home he eats vegan because she is a great cook, but if he is out at a restraunt then he will order meat.

I am in a relationship with a non-vegan, and it does cause some problems since eating out at many restraunts is difficult for vegans, atleast for me since I hate asking the server does this have eggs, chicken stock, milk, etc. in it. But we were going out before I went vegan so it was not something either of us considered an obstacle, but it is now. the way I see it is that people are going to make their own choices about what they eat, and many will do so regardless of the harm they cause others, because they don't care. Or they are slaves to habit, maybe both, whatever their excuse is. My parents eat meat, most of my friends eat meat, and so does my girlfriend. So really if I wanted to be very strict and cut ties with any meat eater I really wouldnt know anyone. The best thing I can do for veganism with the meat eaters I know is just help them understand veganism. Maybe they will come around eventually, maybe not, but I can't force them to be vegan, they can't force me to not be vegan. More vegan places to eat would make life a whole lot easier though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:23 am 
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Elephant

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He would not HAVE to be Vegan (altough it's a plus) but, at least no red meat or pork, I can't watch anyone eat those it turns my stomach. No smoking, no drugs, drinking...I don't mind in moderation. Working out / taking care of one's self is a must. And they must have goals in life.

I think everyone is different and everyone's tolerence for what they want in their SO varies.


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 Post subject: I wouldn't date a murderer...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:09 pm 
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I agree with those of you that emphasized that vegetarianism and veganism are NOT just diet choices, or even lifestyle choices. In my view, whether a person has no moral qualms about killing another innocent and defenseless creature for frivilous reasons like gluttony speaks DIRECTLY about the quality of their heart and measure of kindness and compassion contained within it. I would never date a murderer, so, subject to the qualifications I set out below, why would I date a meat eater? Killing a living creature is murder, plain and simple, even if that creature ain't human. Perhaps I feel that way because I am not speciest, as most if not all meat eaters are. IN fact, speciesm is what makes animal exploitation in all its various forms possible. And, at the risk of being controversial, I might add that it is that same "us versus them", "they are different from us, they are not like us" attitude that makes genocides and holocausts possible. I know this because my great grandparents were massacred in the Armenian genocide in 1915 by the Turks, who justified the mass slaughter of men, women and children on the grounds that Armenian people living in Turkey at that time were "inferior" beings to the Turks in Turkey. That "Us versus theM', "they are not like us", "we are superior" attitude is one that is extremely dangerous and should be rejected by everybody, not adopted let alone encouraged. Unfortunately, most humans have that attitude. A few short decades ago, it was used to justify genocides and holocausts, like I said earlier, and even slavery, etc. As somebody whose people were oppressed and slaughtered, I cannot understand why any human being whose "people" have experienced oppression and exploitation cannot empathize with the plight of animals, since animals are BY FAR the most oppressed, exploitated and abused class of beings on the face of this planet. So when I see Armenians or other formerly oppressed groups wearing fur or eating meat, I get ESPECIALLY enraged and disgusted. Never mind, sympathy, where is the empathy of these people?

Just because consumers who eat meat are not the actual people who slit a cows throat and hang it upside down until it bleeds to death, or scald a pig alive, that does not mean that they are less culpable than the actual butchers. There is no morality in paying somebody else to do something that you cannot even bare to watch, and most people (I would like to think) would not be able to watch, up close and live, the slaughter of innocent animals and not be affected by their squeels and shrieks in terror and their physical struggles to escape their executioners. If they can so watch and be utterly indifferent, then they must have hearts of stone and ice water for blood.

BUt again, most people are generally decent and so I think that like one of you said, it is a matter of habit, of convenience, and of the feeling of superiority over all other life forms on earth that allow people to exploit animals and not lose sleep over it. But in view of the fact that eating animals is not necesary or even good or you, meat eating is a purely gluttonous exericse, and wearing animals, whether in the form of leather, fur, wool or silk, is vanity plain and simple.

As far as smoking and drinking, I used to smoke but quit several years ago. However, I will light up a cigarette once in a blue moon if I am feeling extremely stressed (so I cannot say that I am 100% smoke free). yes, it is stupid and so feel free to hit me on the head if you ever see me. And I enjoy an occasional Martini, shaken, on the rocks with exactly 9 olives, or a glass of red wine. While these may not be good for me, they cannot be compared with meat eating because I am only hurting myself by engaging in these choices, NOT innocent animals who are utterly at my mercy. People do have the choice and freedom to do whatever they want, and indeed, meat eaters, smokers and drinkers will defend their actions on this ground. BUT in my view, your choice and freedom stops at the point where you begin causing suffering to others beyond just yourself, particularly where those others are vulnerable and defenseless against you and your kind.

Conclusion, I would date a meat eater if I knew that the reason why they ate meat was not because they genuinely did not care about the suffering of animals. This is because, as many of you stated, I would hope that I could positively influence them into seeing the "light" as I eventually did. I would hope that this evolution in consciousness would come sooner rather than later though. And make no mistake people, it IS an evolution in consciousness. Vegetarians, and even more so vegans, are more evolved humans than their meat eating, fur and leather wearing counterparts. This is an inescapable conclusion, although one to which most meat eaters are not receptive. The reluctance to see it as an evolution in consciousness, though, is understandable - nobody likes to think of themselves as a neanderthal or anything other than a good kind person. That is why vegetarians/vegans are looked up by society with such hostility. It is because they represent an uncomfortable and inconvenient choice: either change your lifestyle, or your self-image, but you simply cannot have it both ways - the facts don't support it because there is nothing kind or moral or decent or civilized or "un-neanderthal" like about eating animals for the simple reason of pleasing your palate. Meat eating for that reason is one of the most blatant examples of human selfishness and self-indulgence.


However, even though I would, and have dated meat eaters, I would NOT date anybody who I realized genuinely had ZERO charity and mercy in their hearts for innocent creatures. I would like to think that few people on this earth fall into the latter category.

Interestingly enough, Mahatma Ghandi, one of the most peaceful men on earth, would go on hunger strikes and subject himself to suffering in order to try and change his opponents hearts. Ghandi reasoned that people had two components: their "inner essence", and their "outward personality." Often, indeed in most cases, a person's outward personality clashes with their inner essence (whether they themselves realize it at the time or not). According to Ghandi, a change of heart in your opponent is possible only when this inner essence is different from the outward personality. And when a person does undergo a change of heart, that means that their outward personality has finally gotten in sink with their inner essence. When I studied Ghandi many years ago, I really did not fully appreciate the meaning of any of this. When I first became vegetarian, what he was talking about finally made more sense to me. My inner essence finally was in sink with my outward personality. It is like "I met myself for the first time" when I realized that I was NOT cool with eating or wearing animals, even though I had been doing so without much thought for the first 22 years of my life.

So compassion, empathy, kindess, integrity are musts for me in a man. of course, you need chemistry as well. I like a man who is not so "happy go lucky all the time" because frankly, that irritates me. Sometimes, one must be serious and since I am an extremely pasionate and intense person, I look for those qualities in others. LOYALTY though, is probably right up there with compassion. Finally, nothing to me is sexier than a big strong fit guy who is tough with people and can kick anybody's ass, but is gentle with animals and is mezmorized by, and drawn to, the innocence and vulnerability of the non-human animals with which we share this earth. I guess you can summarize it by saying a reverence for innocent life.

And, it is difficult for me to admit this because it is going to turn the stomach of most of you but if it helps animals or the environment then I will take that chance. To any of you out there that think you are too much of "die hard carnivore" that you simply could never give up indulging your lust for animal flesh, I GUARANTEE that nobody out there was a bigger, more die hard meat addict than I. Without getting into too much detail so as to turn all of you off and make you sick to your stomach, I could eat RAW seasoned ground beef without so much as blinking, and I would have all my carnivorous meals pretty much as rare and bloody as possible (not because I was evil, only because I liked to indulge my lust for animal flesh). And, unlike most meat eaters, I did NOT get sick of eating meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. No other food interested me - not pasta, not bread, not pizzas. Just steak, especially prime rib, BBQ chicken, bacon (I could even bacon raw), etc. So don't anybody give me this CRAP about how THEY are too die hard of a carnivore and it would simply be too much to ask of them to give up animal flesh. I think I could pretty much have "carnivored" anybody under the table, and I guarantee that I could have made the most avid meat eating neantherdal pale in comparison to me. MY POINT: If I could become vegetarian (being the vampire that I was), I guarantee that ANYBODY could become vegetarian.

But, after I viewed the video "Meet your meat"and really put my mind to the fact that my lust for the taste of animal flesh was causing the death and suffering of literally billions of animals a year, and since because in my inner essense I was a compassionate girl, I stopped eating animals just like that, cold turkey. When you are confronted with the facts and images of the suffering you have no other choice but to stop. If you don't, you are inexcusably failing to carry your moral weight, which, in turn, must be carried by others :x who care about the delicacy of the planet and the vulnerability of the creatures with which we share it. And even while I ate meat, I was NEVER proud of it like most meat eaters curiously are. I was saddened that I liked meat so much :( . TO all "proud" meat eaters, at least have the courage to admit the obvious: there is nothing to be proud of a habit or addiction that causes suffering and death to billions of innocent beings, directly contributes to world hunger, and is responsible for grave environmental degradation!! :evil:

We will leave my thoughts on the religious aspects of vegetarianism for another day, but there is much to be said about that as well.


Last edited by compassionategirl on Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:54 am 
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Elephant
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wow, thanks for that contribution. maybe it should be published on some vegan sites, its awesome!

:)


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