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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:18 pm 
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Daywalker wrote:
Moreover, this kind of intensity (which would be a sprint training), would increase your metabolism and burn a lot of calories after the actual workout.

It's a myth that fat is only burnt with low intensity.


I'm glad you brought that up.... I'm a huge fan and proponent of HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). It:
1) increases cardiovascular and respiratory capacity. Measurements of V02 capacity have shown that one HIIT session (20 mins) a week gives greater gains in this area than multiple slow, steady-state cardio over the same amount of time.

2) is primarily anaerobic... and large muscle groups are put into play. This greatly increases metabolism throughout the whole day, not just while you are on the machine.

3) can be worked into training days quite easily. If one prefers separate sessions that's fine, but it can be done following an upper-body workout. Following a lower-body workout is not advisable as the muscles are already fatigued and you'll pretty much die trying an HIIT after that.

I used to do an hour SS cardio a day last year and 1 hr training (am/pm). Piddly results. This year I dropped cardio down from 7 hrs to 2 SS sessions (30 mins ea/week), and 1 HIIT session (20 mins). Dropped training from 6 hrs /week to 40 mins 4x/week. Very fast results within a matter of months.

It's quality... not quantity that counts.

My add to the list? Learn how to train most effectively, getting the most 'bang' for your buck. Spending hours in the gym won't help you cutting or bulking if you aren't getting results. Time doesn't mean you are doing it RIGHT.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:36 pm 
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You are right about getting the most "bang" for your buck. I like how I lift little weights and get the same result as the guy next to me lifting twice as much. Of course I use strict form and work the muscle with intensity, as the guy next to me uses all of his other muscles just to get the weight up and lets it swing back down with gravity leading the way.

I find recovery time is just as important as lifting and cardio time. If you have micro-teared your muscle bundles, you won't be able to build if your body hasn't finished repairing it yet. I will not work a muscle group that is still really sore from a workout. It is sometimes so hard to wait, but I do and I am rewarded by being able to lift a little bit heavier in the next workout!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:45 pm 
I've found working sore muscles only hurts for a while....I got used to doing it and as soon as I got a few heavy sets in after the painful warmup I was normally good to go


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:34 am 
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@veganpotter: this works particularly well if you're doing a lot of core ttraining (so abs, glutes, pelvic web, low back). i've read and heard many time that you can work those muscles hard day after day without much worry about muscle loss or injury from tear down.

as for limbs/extremities, i think it is often a detriment to work the sore muscles. but if you're only doing one or two sets of light to moderate weight, often the opposite happens. you can knock the soreness out of your muscles without have a teardown effect, or so i've heard...


now, i have a cutting question: you know how fat cells are constant in number? well, if someone was a fat little kid and built up a good amount of fat cells on the stomach area, how did he get a 10-pack? (this is about a friend of mine i hadn't seen in 10 years) seriously, where did the fat cells go? methinks instantly of liposuction, but wondered if just anyone can rid themselves of fat cells and get ab ripples.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:42 am 
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bighead wrote:
@veganpotter: this works particularly well if you're doing a lot of core ttraining (so abs, glutes, pelvic web, low back). i've read and heard many time that you can work those muscles hard day after day without much worry about muscle loss or injury from tear down.

as for limbs/extremities, i think it is often a detriment to work the sore muscles. but if you're only doing one or two sets of light to moderate weight, often the opposite happens. you can knock the soreness out of your muscles without have a teardown effect, or so i've heard...


now, i have a cutting question: you know how fat cells are constant in number? well, if someone was a fat little kid and built up a good amount of fat cells on the stomach area, how did he get a 10-pack? (this is about a friend of mine i hadn't seen in 10 years) seriously, where did the fat cells go? methinks instantly of liposuction, but wondered if just anyone can rid themselves of fat cells and get ab ripples.


Doesn't the body use up fat cells? I thought the body (on average) goes through like 80g of fat or something. That's ultra simplistic no doubt

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:22 pm 
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that's fat grams... as in the kind of fat you ate. but there are fat cells which are like bone cells or any other cell that is a living part of your body. apparently people don't actually lose these cells, they just shrink down really small.

"Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!
...It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger."

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:35 pm 
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bighead wrote:
that's fat grams... as in the kind of fat you ate. but there are fat cells which are like bone cells or any other cell that is a living part of your body. apparently people don't actually lose these cells, they just shrink down really small.

"Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!
...It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger."


Wow! If that's the case, then it'd just be a matter of getting the cells as small as they can be, but presumably there is a limit on that, and therefore everybody will have a slightly different lowest possible fat amount.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:51 pm 
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bighead wrote:
that's fat grams... as in the kind of fat you ate. but there are fat cells which are like bone cells or any other cell that is a living part of your body. apparently people don't actually lose these cells, they just shrink down really small.

"Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!
...It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger."


Yep, this is exactly right. Good post bighead! :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:25 pm 
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It is possible to lose fat and gain muscle if you're a newbie to lifting and/or aren't that big to begin with due to the biochemical and hormonal responses in our bodies.
However, once you start putting on some actual mass and building a lot of strength, that will not apply anymore. You will have to focus on either building muscle or just leaning out.
If someone is actually into natural bodybuilding, I would advocate them focusing on ONE goal at a time. I'm a natural bodybuilder myself and I can tell you from first hand experience that many of my workout partners and I have spent a few years building a solid foundation/base before we start focusing on cutting.

You do need sleep and protein to build muscle, but CALORIES are the building blocks for your body. Calories are energy and without extra energy your body has NOTHING to build on and will not build much, if any, muscle. Again, it is possible to build SOME muscle and lose fat at the same time, but this usually applies to people who are new to bodybuilding and/or don't have much mass to begin with. If you do choose to lose fat and build muscle, it will take a much longer time to do so.
Any skinny kid should focus on lifting and eating plenty of food to put on muscle, then they can focus on cutting what tiny bit of fat they do gain.
The fat gain usually isn't noticable if done right; not to mention the more muscle you have, the easier and faster it is to lose fat.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:43 am 
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IMO this is true in my experience. And the more muscle you have, the more you reach your genetic potential, and then it becomes even harder to pack on muscle. That is when you get excited over the little 2 1/2 plates on each side make you that much stronger and help you get through your plateau. You start looking for the extra supplements to help you get the extra 5 or 10 lbs plate on your barbell next week.
Then it is hard to start cutting and you start to see the muscle under the skin start to pop out, but the weights start to go down cause you miscalculated your calorie intake for the day, or your body is starting to conserve energy and your basal metabolic rate goes down, and you just don't have the energy to do the heavy lifting. But then again who cares if a little muscle mass goes, you are just happy with the definition starting to come to the surface!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:38 pm 
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I found this 12 week Bodybuilding pre-comp diet followed by Robbie Hazeley. I thought it looked pretty good for metabolisms that need a bit lower carb pre-competiiton.

http://www.raw.veganbodybuilding.org/comp-diet.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:30 pm 
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Hi Alex,
can you post a one day meal plan during you cuttingtime oder precontest-time in this thread?
Like Meal 1,2,3,4,5,6 with calories and macro ratio.
That will be great!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:46 pm 
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bighead wrote:
that's fat grams... as in the kind of fat you ate. but there are fat cells which are like bone cells or any other cell that is a living part of your body. apparently people don't actually lose these cells, they just shrink down really small.

"Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!
...It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger."


I know this is an old post, but I wanted to correct this. Your life-long # fat cells is not constant after you hit puberty or anything like that. Fat cells have a half-life of about 12 years, meaning that over the course of 12 years, half the fat cells you had in your body are now dead, and new ones are created according to demand. Generally speaking, yes - fat cells just fill up or empty as you gain/lose weight. HOWEVER, if they fill up to a certain point, they are triggered to divide (multiply). You couldn't gain 200 lbs of fat just by filling your existing fat cells. And once you've created that fresh batch of fat cells, it'll take a long time for them to reduce in number even if you drop your weight (remember that 12-year half-life) - at that point, they're just emptying.

So that guy mentioned earlier who has a 10-pack but used to be a fat kid...he wasn't stuck with those fat cells for life. But, should he pig out, he would produce more again (as anyone would). Your number of fat cells is very slow to change if you're losing fat, but they can multiply quickly if you're gaining massive amounts of weight (and you're stuck with those extra cells for a long time, even if you empty them out).


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 Post subject: Re: Bulking and Cutting
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Thanks for the correction!

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 Post subject: Re: Bulking and Cutting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:42 pm 
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How exactly do you know how many calories will be enough to burn fat but not send your body into catabolic mode?? The reason i asked is because it happened to me some time ago i started losing weight, and losing more and more until i was too skinny and my BMR just plunged down. I got to the point of not etaing more than 1000 calories a day and exercising 3 hours, so it was basically anorexia. Now i am eating a lotttt more but i have gained weight because my body is not used to having so much energy, so i would like to know what would be a good amount to not burn off all the muscle like i did before but not gain/lose the little fat i have gained and not be hungry all the time


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