So where is all the outcry about "Obama's War"?

[Vegan Joe]

Your blind hatred has made you a bigot.
You're a simpleton, who spouts rhetoric he read in some extremist publication.
You're a hater.
Listen to yourself

Aw, what's the matter? Run out of material? Not that you've ever had anything interesting, or original to say.

Interesting enough for you to return.

[sinisterkungfu]

This thread raises my BP and lowers my IQ. I suspect it has the same effect on others.

My guess is that it has the same effect on liberals and people who voted for Obama too.

Still wondering were the outcry about the war went?

People are too busy laughing at teabaggers, birthers and the moron McCarthyists running around crying Socialism. It's hilarious, really. Watching an entire political party disintegrate in front of you is pretty amusing.

[sinisterkungfu]

Your blind hatred has made you a bigot.
You're a simpleton, who spouts rhetoric he read in some extremist publication.
You're a hater.
Listen to yourself

Aw, what's the matter? Run out of material? Not that you've ever had anything interesting, or original to say.

Interesting enough for you to return.

Return? I haven't really gone anywhere, other than home from work.

[I'm Your Man]

Still wondering were the outcry about the war went?

Sure its very sad, I guess people are waiting (too long) for real changes, they guess it takes time for good changes, compared to a fraction of second it takes to declare a war or to take other bad decisions. It takes time to repair mistakes of the Bush administration, but I agree that people are too calm now. Why dont you start, VeganJoe, by going in front of the White House and protest against Obama's war politics? Especially that your son has been sent there I believe? You should be in anger... But you're not, because you love war. In a way, you're happy that Obama is like Bush, but you would like that people notice he's an imposter and deserves as much opposition that Bush got. But thing is he's not that bad, so people are kind of happy with what they have eventhough they know it could be better.

[VeganEssentials]

But you're not, because you love war.

Not trying to stick up for Joe here because we're not in agreement about a lot of things, but where the hell did he ever say that he loves war? I've read pretty well every political thread he's started (and I wisely stay out of most of them as they almost always turn south at some point ), but somehow, I don't recall seeing this mentioned ever. A good deal of Republicans didn't ever want to go to war, but that's what happened and we're stuck with it. My parents are Republicans and always have been, but they never wanted to see us go to war in Iraq. By your faulty logic, they love war because they aren't Democrats, which is absurd. Joe's complaining about his son being sent on another tour of duty, but yet he's happy that we're still at war? I think you're pulling things out of somewhere that they shouldn't be coming from, because your statement doesn't make on ounce of sense

I do get a laugh out of people saying, if you don't support Obama, you're a warmonger who wants global domination. I don't support Obama, (nor did I support Bush or Cheney), but does that mean that I love war? Hell no! The democratic party is not the answer to all our problems, and neither is the Republican party. Heck, NO party is going to be the perfect solution, and I do get a chuckle when people think that as a vegan, you need to be far-left liberal or it's some kind of error in your head that means you're screwed up. Vegans come in all shapes, sizes, races, religions, political leanings - just because it's not what you are doesn't mean that it's completely wrong.

We can agree to disagree tastefully without everything coming down to us vs. them politics, because you need to keep in mind, not all of us toe the party line like we're rooting for local sports teams that have had a long-standing rivalry, and just because we don't agree doesn't make either of us "right" in our beliefs. I've to conclude, too many people just want to have a side that they can say is "good" vs. the "bad" one because that's how we've been trained to think, in complete polarization where you have two options and the one you agree with less MUST be the wrong one to fight against. It's all one big distraction to keep us from seeing the real issue, that we have less control than we really should. I don't see either party (or any other party) being good or bad specifically. All have their pros and cons, so be it, and making things out like one is far superior to the other is a crock to me. They're all crooks, they all make promises they can't keep, and we're all screwed in the end. Politics suck no matter what. Let's leave it at that.

[I'm Your Man]

I said that because Bush started that war and then he has been elected a second time eventhough it was clear that he wanted to continue this war. Most republicans are or were for the war. War and fight to the terrorists was the most important thing about republican campaign while ending the war was the main change democrats advocated. But concerning VeganJoe in particular, you're right he never said ''I love war'', but he went to Vietnam, his son went to war (did he tried to convinced him not to?), I never saw any veganjoe posts where he complains about the war in Iraq; I challenge him to write: ''I, Joe, want to see this war ends now''.

[abey]

i think obama is just a lier puppet,just like his predecessors,USA,and the hole world, is governed by the bankers and the big corporations,its all about money and power,and war is a very very(maybe the most) beneficial thing for them, sad but true

[VeganDrew]

1. Obama, like many other presidents in history, is a war criminal.

2. Obama, like virtually every other president in history, is a criminal.

3. Obama is a better president than McCain would be.

4. The US government is a criminal institution.

5. Anyone who joins the US military is an unfortunate, misinformed, and ill-educated individual who we should hope won't be turned into a psychopathic murderer.

6. Serious anti-war activists have always known 1-5 and condemned Obama's wars.

7. Revolution.

[xveganjoshx]

1. Obama, like many other presidents in history, is a war criminal.
Alright.

2. Obama, like virtually every other president in history, is a criminal.
?

3. Obama is a better president than McCain would be.
Have you looked into the alternate dimension of our multiverse and seen how the world would be in an alternate reality? Or all you just speculating here?

4. The US government is a criminal institution.
No comment.

5. Anyone who joins the US military is an unfortunate, misinformed, and ill-educated individual who we should hope won't be turned into a psychopathic murderer.
Yet they protect your ability to sit behind a keyboard and mock them.

6. Serious anti-war activists have always known 1-5 and condemned Obama's wars.
There always has to be a criteria or distinction between "serious" activists and the pansies who just talk the talk, right? I mean, if you're not in the ALF, you're not a "serious" vegan, right?

7. Revolution.
You can fight the fight, man. I don't want to. I thought I did at one time, but I'm content living in a great country, having a comfortable home, friends, leisure activities, romantic partners, and all the wonderful things that life is worth living for, many of which I haven't even mentioned. If you want to be sprawled out on the asphault by an FBI bullet to the dome, more power to you brother, keep up the good fight.

[I'm Your Man]

6. Serious anti-war activists have always known 1-5 and condemned Obama's wars.
There always has to be a criteria or distinction between "serious" activists and the pansies who just talk the talk, right? I mean, if you're not in the ALF, you're not a "serious" vegan, right?

I've heard the ALF is not a real organization with members, it is just a movement; nobody is in the ALF but at the sametime any vegan can do something for the ALF. I myself just wrote 'Meat is Muder - Go Vegan - ALF' with my tag on a wall and that makes me part of the ALF.

[Vegan Joe]

1. Obama, like many other presidents in history, is a war criminal.
Alright.

2. Obama, like virtually every other president in history, is a criminal.
?

3. Obama is a better president than McCain would be.
Have you looked into the alternate dimension of our multiverse and seen how the world would be in an alternate reality? Or all you just speculating here?

4. The US government is a criminal institution.
No comment.

5. Anyone who joins the US military is an unfortunate, misinformed, and ill-educated individual who we should hope won't be turned into a psychopathic murderer.
Yet they protect your ability to sit behind a keyboard and mock them.

6. Serious anti-war activists have always known 1-5 and condemned Obama's wars.
There always has to be a criteria or distinction between "serious" activists and the pansies who just talk the talk, right? I mean, if you're not in the ALF, you're not a "serious" vegan, right?

7. Revolution.
You can fight the fight, man. I don't want to. I thought I did at one time, but I'm content living in a great country, having a comfortable home, friends, leisure activities, romantic partners, and all the wonderful things that life is worth living for, many of which I haven't even mentioned. If you want to be sprawled out on the asphault by an FBI bullet to the dome, more power to you brother, keep up the good fight.

I like the way you think!

[VeganDrew]

3. Obama is a better president than McCain would be.
Have you looked into the alternate dimension of our multiverse and seen how the world would be in an alternate reality? Or all you just speculating here?

Speculating, based on what he said in the campaign.

5. Anyone who joins the US military is an unfortunate, misinformed, and ill-educated individual who we should hope won't be turned into a psychopathic murderer.
Yet they protect your ability to sit behind a keyboard and mock them.

They simply do not. The US military reduces my freedom and my safety, it does not protect me in any way, shape, or form that I want or find not morally reprehensible. The US military protects my ability to exploit people in other countries due to military hegemony, but not since the 1940s has the US military protected anyone, and almost all military activity (including, in some ways, WWII) is a criminal offense that would have our country's leaders hanged next to the Nazis at Nuremburg.

Look at Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Libya, Afghanistan, the Phillipines, East Timor, Latin America, Africa, and let's tally up where US soldiers were protecting and where they were coercing the local populace as an arm of US economic colonialism, and let's see what we come up with.

I highly suggest 9-11 (or any other book) by Noam Chomsky, A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn, and most especially the documentary Why We Fight which is available here.

6. Serious anti-war activists have always known 1-5 and condemned Obama's wars.
There always has to be a criteria or distinction between "serious" activists and the pansies who just talk the talk, right? I mean, if you're not in the ALF, you're not a "serious" vegan, right?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. What I'm saying is that peace activists who are not holding signs to be fashionable, do not support Afghanistan.

7. Revolution.
You can fight the fight, man. I don't want to. I thought I did at one time, but I'm content living in a great country, having a comfortable home, friends, leisure activities, romantic partners, and all the wonderful things that life is worth living for, many of which I haven't even mentioned. If you want to be sprawled out on the asphault by an FBI bullet to the dome, more power to you brother, keep up the good fight.

I definitely also want to be content and enjoy the good things in life. I don't think it's a yes/no issue though. I was just listening to Democracy Now! and it turns out Martin Sheen has been arrested for anti-war activity more times than years he has been alive.

But the lifestyle we lead is afforded to us in many ways by inequality served at the end of a gun. Sometimes it's less obvious (Colombian military trained at the School of the Americas on how to terrorize and kidnap their populace, so they can privatize utilities and bring in United Fruit Company to give us cheap bananas) than others (US supporting the extermination in East Timor, current support of the Turkish government as they massacre their Kurdish population) but rest assured that what we enjoy is, in a lot of ways, at a terrible cost.

I think we have a moral responsibility to stop this any way we can.

[beforewisdom]

If the BS in this thread could be shoveled into trucks we could give the world free organic vegetables.

[Vegan Joe]

I just read the last few posts in this thread. Sarcasm aside, it really does look like an exchange between grade school children.

The topic of this web board is bodybuilding and fitness. There are plenty of places on the web to talk about politics. Why not take this subject there?

If the BS in this thread could be shoveled into trucks we could give the world free organic vegetables.

Why not just post in another thread, as your two cents is bearly worth two cents.

[Vegan Joe]

The US military protects my ability to exploit people in other countries.

The US military protects you from other countries exploiting you. As the cloud begins to lift. lol