"intelligent" people speak out against healthcare

These people are the ones protesting healtchare:

Every faction has it's crazies. Vegans sure do. Socialists sure do. Libertarians sure do. Catholics, Muslims, and more! It's most ignorant to mock those against healthcare, and even more so to portray the worst as a representation of the whole. Especially coming from a vegan, who I'm betting has had people cite the Animal Liberation Front to them, calling vegans terrorists.

I've been called intelligent a couple times in my life, so I'm just going to quote myself from the Bill O' Reilly supports healthcare thread. It should take you less time to read my few paragraphs than it did to watch that video. I'll be interested to hear your take.

The biggest problem with this bill is that the purpose is to provide everyone health insurance. It's not aimed at creating a sensible, sustainable health care system in any sense of the term. It's aimed at giving everyone insurance. I don't personally know anyone who has studied the history of health care who believes that insurance is the savior.

 

Doesn't anyone else see a problem in needing insurance to get a routine checkup, or a prescription for antibiotics (or insurance to purchase said antibiotics)? That's the equivalent of having home owners insurance for if you ever decide to paint your walls. Or care insurance for if a bird poops on your windshield. It's absurd. Insurance is meant for catastrophes.

 

You don't even need to go that far back in our countries history to a time when most people didn't have health insurance, and those who did only carried catastrophic, and yet everyone got treatment. So what happened? Basically, government got involved. We saw the birth of the HMO, and a slew of legislation over a decades time that created a third party payer system of big-business insurance companies. Combine this with changes in tort law that increased medical professionals insurance costs, and voila! You need insurance just to get your sore throat checked out.

 

So I guess we could create this public option, but it's completely besides the point. It doesn't address the issue. Now I grant you that other parts of the bill are helpful, but at the end of the day, I'm betting money we won't be any better off. The problems will remain, if only shift slightly as new problems emerge. We're stripping individual liberty for nothing. It's all flash to attract the masses that really don't understand our healthcare system.

 

But Bill O' Reilly supports it.

Personally I'd rather legislation be drafted to promote the kind of healthcare system we used to have before it got muddled up by government and turned into the monstrosity that we have today. A sustainable system of doctor-patient relationships where insurance exists only for those who want it, and only for catastrophes. Not for every time you have a tummy ache. Insurance needs to be gotten rid of, not expanded. The fact that it's necessary today should really highlight the problem [costs].

 

A couple really interesting things have been happening in the last year. First were the doctors who began refusing insurance and instead would give their patients a price list for services offered. These were incredibly cheaper rates, and poor Americans flocked to these sorts of places. Similar are the little clinics (not sure what they're called) that have been put up in some malls and stores around the country, where anyone can walk in, spend like $15 on a regular checkup, and the most expensive thing costs like $75. No insurance needed, and the quality of care they're getting rivals what you and I with insurance are getting.

 

Another cool thing I saw that was just on the nightly network news last week were clinics that do not take insurance, but instead charge a monthly fee to belong too, much like a gym membership. Prices range anywhere from 35-75 dollars a month to belong, and this covers all costs, including x-rays and such. Very affordable, fraction of the cost of health insurance, and best yet--the care at these places is significantly better than what most of us with insurance get. Significantly. Doctor-patient relationships, no third party, no worrying for the doctor about getting all the paperwork right rather than spending time treating the patient. And poor people can easily afford it. These sorts of places have actually existed for many years, but used to be only for the wealthy who would have it in lieu of insurance as the quality of care, and availability of care, was so much better.

 

And guess what, these ideas don't cost more money, they cost less. Spending a trillion dollars on some absurd plan that's going to remove peoples options is going to be terrible. If you were going to one of these clinics, you're now going to get fined for not having insurance. Money doesn't solve problems, but anything that requires a lot of it can be sold to an entirely ignorant public.

This is the problem with making social issues political. Obnoxious morons come out from everywhere and they talk and talk but you know they don't fully understand what they are talking about. They only have something to say because they just watched glenn beck or michael moore.

I am all for socialized healthcare. It might force the government to promote a better diet to help reduce costs.

It might force the government to promote a better diet to help reduce costs.

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Everyone pay attention: Vegan Joe does not approve!

"not all americans are retarded, only about 85%"

/norweigan drunk dude at a party

Everyone pay attention: Vegan Joe does not approve!

I think we should all agree to ignore Vegan Joe's comments from now on.

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They'll go at you Joe, but whenever I take the time to write out a developed argument, it gets ignored. It's a funny thing to support something, or criticize someone else for supporting something, without stating your own position in full, in your own words. Imo. *ducks for cover*

They'll go at you Joe, but whenever I take the time to write out a developed argument, it gets ignored. It's a funny thing to support something, or criticize someone else for supporting something, without stating your own position in full, in your own words. Imo. *ducks for cover*

As a two finger typist, I have very little interest in typing to the wall. They know the opposing positions, they just can't conceive of them. They think because it is change that it therefore must be better.

They'll go at you Joe, but whenever I take the time to write out a developed argument, it gets ignored. It's a funny thing to support something, or criticize someone else for supporting something, without stating your own position in full, in your own words. Imo. *ducks for cover*

Take a look at this thread and you'll see that it's quite the opposite. Vegan Joe cherrypicks lines from people's arguments, takes them out of context, makes a baseless assertion, and then ends it all with something smug. That's all he does.

Take a look at this thread and you'll see that it's quite the opposite. Vegan Joe cherrypicks lines from people's arguments, takes them out of context, makes a baseless assertion, and then ends it all with something smug. That's all he does.

Your whole thread was based on somebody elses youtube video, to call me out.

You didn't want to debate you just wanted to call me names. When I posted some additional information about the subject you refused to answer any of the critics, and reverted to calling me names. It has nothing to do with debating a subject. It only has to do with your hatred/ dislike for me.

Say what you will, You're still stuck with your hatred. (reason for posting in this thread)

PS I will never live up to your expectations, So I hope this makes you feel better.

You can't even take your own advice, and ignore me

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Addai- I agree with you and im about as liberal as they come. i believe that universal healthcare is better than what we have now-BUT i couldnt possibly agree with you more that this "solution" is more of dealing with a symptom of the much bigger problem, than actually dealing with the problem itself-that healthcare in this country is RIDICULOUS

VJ, we've been over this before. You claim that people call you names before they actually do and you call everyone "bigot".

When I said that you were doing the name calling "thing" yourself with the word bigot your reply was "well that's because you are bigots". Your replies to most valid arguments always leave me wondering if you are a troll/retarded/stupid etc etc. You post idiotic rethorical questions about Obama, gay marriage and when someone acutally takes up the discussion with you your only answer is another or the same (which again leads to me wondering if you're retarded) question. When confronted about your obvious homophobia you say childish stuff like "I'm not homophobic because my daughter knows a gay girl". The sad thing is that you give me the impression that you think you win the debates but all you really do is look stupid. Oh one of my favorite threads was the one you started and whenever someone who lived outside of the US replied you just quoted them and replied (for instance) "Sweden" and using it as an argument that our opinions weren't valid/good enough or whatever. You are really stupid. I don't know why I rant so much today but you fucking suck at debating and your opinions really make me sick.

I still think the whole political forum should be removed from VBB, it has no place here.

VJ, we've been over this before. You claim that people call you names before they actually do and you call everyone "bigot".

When I said that you were doing the name calling "thing" yourself with the word bigot your reply was "well that's because you are bigots". Your replies to most valid arguments always leave me wondering if you are a troll/retarded/stupid etc etc. You post idiotic rethorical questions about Obama, gay marriage and when someone acutally takes up the discussion with you your only answer is another or the same (which again leads to me wondering if you're retarded) question. When confronted about your obvious homophobia you say childish stuff like "I'm not homophobic because my daughter knows a gay girl". The sad thing is that you give me the impression that you think you win the debates but all you really do is look stupid. Oh one of my favorite threads was the one you started and whenever someone who lived outside of the US replied you just quoted them and replied (for instance) "Sweden" and using it as an argument that our opinions weren't valid/good enough or whatever. You are really stupid. I don't know why I rant so much today but you fucking suck at debating and your opinions really make me sick.

 

I still think the whole political forum should be removed from VBB, it has no place here.

Ya want to know what my problem is?: I don't hate people I disagree with. You think your side of the argument is the only right one. I don't get people like you who claim that I call eveyone names while you call me names. It only make your assesment of me rediculas. I don't know why you can't see that. Go back reread those threads, and you will see that in every instance the name calling was not started by me.

You and this post are a perfect example of the "pot calling the kettle black", but only you and a couple of people can't see this.

Here is another point to ponder: for all the people who have reported my posts/threads in the past, if I was acually guilty of all this name calling, don't you think the moderators would have taken care of this, but the truth of the matter is that I am usually defending myself against name callers (I never report posts except spam). I challenge you to go back and read without bias and you will see that 99% of the time I am correct in what I am telling you.

I've looked back at some old threads and honestly you are 99% wrong. You start the name calling and you claim that people call you names before they actually do. But when you do call them names it's of course justified because the words you use are accurate descriptions of the persons.

I do not think that everyones opinion but my own is the wrong one and I don't hate people I disagree with at all. You make a lot of assumptions and all of them are wrong.

And you continue with the "I call them bigots because they are bigots". Joe, I call you stupid because that is what you are!

I've looked back at some old threads and honestly you are 99% wrong. You start the name calling and you claim that people call you names before they actually do.

Joe, I call you stupid because that is what you are!

See, you prove my point once again.

I know nothing about the healthcare debate.

But I like Joe.

I told you already if I was the one doing all the hating and name calling I would have been band.

A band would be cool. But no you wouldn't have been banned because they do not ban people very often from this forum. I know VP and that crazy dude who got banned both from VF and VBB (personally I'm only banned from VF) but no one else acctually. You need to do a lot of shit to get banned from here and hating plus name calling doesn't really cut it. So it proves nothing.

So it proves nothing.

Still waiting for your proof.

I don't really think there is anything to prove. Just like you just asked me to look back at old threads I will ask you. We will reach different conclusions end of story.

Couldn't you at leat write "yeah it's true that I wouldn't have been banned since this forum doesn't do stuff like that", or is it too hard for you to accept that I was right?

I mean if I or the others did all the name calling wouldn't we've been banned?

I don't really think there is anything to prove.

Best point you've made so far. You come back with your proof, I'm done with this thread until you do.

Have a nice weekend.

PS was wondering why you don't post your workouts anymore you had a great physique going there last time I saw a photo.

I'll do it when you come with yours.

I don't post cause I haven't worked out in about 6-8 months, I just started again last week. Still below 10% bf but I lost a lot of muscle.

I've only read maybe two words of each post on this page. Sounds like two adults bickering like children on an issue of profound importance to everyone. It's like congress.