Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

@ Ross and Chris

I hear ya guys on the low volume/frequency training, i love to train too, and when i first discovered HIT, i was reluctant to follow the recommendations of its proponents, despite their achievements. It wasn't until i spoke with Mike himself did i began to believe, using the most objective language i ever heard, he helped me develop a much more of a relaxed understanding of it all.
He told me about one client in particular, David Paul (Mikes favorite client) an actor from the 80s/bodybuilder had been training 6 days a week, for up till 2 hours a day for several years with zero improvements made (because he enjoyed working out). Mikes first recommendation to him was to take a 3 week layoff, on his return to the gym, in just one month with Mike, he increased his squat by 185lbs and gained 6lbs of muscle!! Not bad for an advanced athlete who had already been training for 20+ years:)

@ Rob - So, if the point is to accomplish sufficient stimulation, would it matter that much if I do one set of heavyweight/low rep, or one set of low weight/high rep, provided that each are to failure? Is there any significant benefit of one form over the other?

What about foregoing any warm up sets, and instead doing some overall cardio (like jumping jacks) prior to lifting? Wouldn't that allow for greater resistance, or higher reps, on the actual working set?

esqinchi wrote:@ Rob - So, if the point is to accomplish sufficient stimulation, would it matter that much if I do one set of heavyweight/low rep, or one set of low weight/high rep, provided that each are to failure? Is there any significant benefit of one form over the other?

What about foregoing any warm up sets, and instead doing some overall cardio (like jumping jacks) prior to lifting? Wouldn't that allow for greater resistance, or higher reps, on the actual working set?

Not at all Chris, in fact there's been well conducted research in recent years to show one can do just as well using high reps, at the other end many do well with low reps and heavy weights. I wouldn't go super high reps, as you want to stay within an anaerobic pathway.

I wouldn't recommend foregoing the warm-up sets for a treadmill, bike, jumping jacks etc, reason being, you also want to warm-up nero-muscularly for the bigger more intense training to come, you want to "simmer to the boil".

@ Rob - Cool. So, you're basically saying that once I reach failure, or at least close enough to not injure myself (by dropping the bar), there's literally no point in doing a second set - even if I am able to do so. In fact, doing so is likely counterproductive?

Also, since one would only be training a couple body parts per session, what's the harm in training more than 2-3 times per week?

For example, some of the workouts I've read of Mentzer describe as follows:

1. Rear Delt & Biceps
Rest 4 days
2. Quads & Hamstrings
Rest 4 days
3. Chest & Lats
Rest 4 days
etc....

If you are isolating those parts, why not train 3-4 times per week, instead of 1-2?

esqinchi wrote:@ Rob - Cool. So, you're basically saying that once I reach failure, or at least close enough to not injure myself (by dropping the bar), there's literally no point in doing a second set - even if I am able to do so. In fact, doing so is likely counterproductive?

Also, since one would only be training a couple body parts per session, what's the harm in training more than 2-3 times per week?

For example, some of the workouts I've read of Mentzer describe as follows:

1. Rear Delt & Biceps
Rest 4 days
2. Quads & Hamstrings
Rest 4 days
3. Chest & Lats
Rest 4 days
etc....

If you are isolating those parts, why not train 3-4 times per week, instead of 1-2?

Precisely mate, you've simulated the body sufficiently, a second set is unnecessary and for most..too much.

That's a very good question - Intense physical stress effects the entire physical system, there is systemic fatigue, not just localized, localized recovery actually happens pretty fast, however systemic recovery takes considerable longer. Mike found 4-7 days (depending on the individuals recovery ability and level) to be the precise amount required.

HIT Rob wrote:That's a very good question - Intense physical stress effects the entire physical system, there is systemic fatigue, not just localized, localized recovery actually happens pretty fast, however systemic recovery takes considerable longer. Mike found 4-7 days (depending on the individuals recovery ability and level) to be the precise amount required.

Here's a question for you Rob ~ do you think the same should be applied to running

I just did a 50km race at the weekend, thought I went ok (4hr45 and 5th place). My performances on lower mileage weeks/less training seems to be reduced in the sense that I generally run slower and my body feels more tired. Once I pick my running up to around the 50-80km a week over 4-6 days I noticeably run better. I have no problems or issues with recovery and definitely don't feel like I need the extra rest days just for the sake of resting. So, I'm inclined to feel like I'd rather keep the weekly mileage on the slightly higher side (even though each session has a specific purpose and I'm not just logging 'junk miles' for the sake of running) rather than maybe training harder but less.

Interested in your thoughts, and realise that running a) might be a curveball b) might not be applicable to the theories of HIT c) you have no idea because you have never been asked before


PS: Sorry to crash your thread Ross, and sorry about the shit gig you just went to lol.

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:

HIT Rob wrote:That's a very good question - Intense physical stress effects the entire physical system, there is systemic fatigue, not just localized, localized recovery actually happens pretty fast, however systemic recovery takes considerable longer. Mike found 4-7 days (depending on the individuals recovery ability and level) to be the precise amount required.

Here's a question for you Rob ~ do you think the same should be applied to running

I just did a 50km race at the weekend, thought I went ok (4hr45 and 5th place). My performances on lower mileage weeks/less training seems to be reduced in the sense that I generally run slower and my body feels more tired. Once I pick my running up to around the 50-80km a week over 4-6 days I noticeably run better. I have no problems or issues with recovery and definitely don't feel like I need the extra rest days just for the sake of resting. So, I'm inclined to feel like I'd rather keep the weekly mileage on the slightly higher side (even though each session has a specific purpose and I'm not just logging 'junk miles' for the sake of running) rather than maybe training harder but less.

Interested in your thoughts, and realise that running a) might be a curveball b) might not be applicable to the theories of HIT c) you have no idea because you have never been asked before


PS: Sorry to crash your thread Ross, and sorry about the shit gig you just went to lol.

Hey mate,

I'm sure you've heard of a Principle in exercise physiology referred to as S.A.I.D (Specific adaptation of imposed demands), your training at the moment with a specific goal to improve upon your existing endurance levels, therefore in your case, it does stand to reason that when you train more (aerobically), you make better progress and preform at a higher level.
That being said, HIT training (when done with the rush factor), has shown to be very effective for improving cardio function, one study that springs to mind is the Arthur Jones West Point Military Academy study in 1975, were subjects (who were already very fit) greatly improved the 2 mile running times after 6 weeks of Nautilus only training.

My apologies for crashing your thread also Ross:)

You god dam thread hijackers! Haha not at all, I'm enjoying the conversation, really interesting stuff rob think il try my best to stick with it for a while, had a long chat about it with a buddy of mine yesterday that's looking into that style of training

I'm still resting atm, it's nice to not wake up with DOMS... But I do miss the bar! Il think about probably training after work today or Saturday morning first thing.

And yeah Jim the gig sucked, everyone there was lame and boring so dullll

Okay fine.... I'm on the hiit band wagon hahaha, the only difference is that I can't quite go to failure with squats as I have no spotter and it's goddam dangerous.. So that'll stick to 8-10 reps for a few sets.

I'm still in the process of sorting out what exercises to do when, but I'm pretty set on 2 different workouts.
Workout 1: deadlift, rows, pull ups, ab crunches, shrugs, bicep curls.
Workout 2: squat, calf raises, DB bench, flys, tricep kickbacks, upright rows.

I'm still looking up and learning about hiit but after reading a bit of mike mentzer and watching a couple of videos that rob posted I'm liking the idea and am becoming convinced.

Will except any constructive criticism guys

Soooo it's been 7 days since I last trained, here goes

Squats
65Kg x 10 reps
65Kg x 10 reps
65Kg x 10 reps

Calf raises to failure, literally lost count

Dumbbell bench to failure- 27.5Kg x 15 reps

Dumbbell flys to failure- 20Kg x 14 reps (I think)
I tried not to count as it put me off

Upright rows with 15Kg weight plate
About 20ish reps each arm, total killer (good shout rob)

Tricep kickbacks to failure- 12.5Kg x about 25 reps ish, lost count.

I loved this, I'm gonna take 4-5 rest days now

Hey mate, you training today??? I'm going to try for a HIT leg session. I miss dumbbell bench man. I might have to splurge for some heavy db's.

vegan_rossco wrote:Okay fine.... I'm on the hiit band wagon hahaha, the only difference is that I can't quite go to failure with squats as I have no spotter and it's goddam dangerous.. So that'll stick to 8-10 reps for a few sets.

I'm still in the process of sorting out what exercises to do when, but I'm pretty set on 2 different workouts.
Workout 1: deadlift, rows, pull ups, ab crunches, shrugs, bicep curls.
Workout 2: squat, calf raises, DB bench, flys, tricep kickbacks, upright rows.

I'm still looking up and learning about hiit but after reading a bit of mike mentzer and watching a couple of videos that rob posted I'm liking the idea and am becoming convinced.

Will except any constructive criticism guys

Soooo it's been 7 days since I last trained, here goes

Squats
65Kg x 10 reps
65Kg x 10 reps
65Kg x 10 reps

Calf raises to failure, literally lost count

Dumbbell bench to failure- 27.5Kg x 15 reps

Dumbbell flys to failure- 20Kg x 14 reps (I think)
I tried not to count as it put me off

Upright rows with 15Kg weight plate
About 20ish reps each arm, total killer (good shout rob)

Tricep kickbacks to failure- 12.5Kg x about 25 reps ish, lost count.

I loved this, I'm gonna take 4-5 rest days now

Love it:))

Wee tip...

Forget counting reps, just focus on the muscle/s working, smooth turnarounds at each end of the rep and training to failure. If you do want to compare apples with apples when it comes to the training itself, use a stopwatch and track the time under tension/load and the weight used, OR do count the reps, but not necessarily on every workout, do the same workout again several weeks or workouts later and compare results:)

HIT trainer and Mr N.I BB champ recently said this on facebook...

"For all those people that count their rest periods between sets, record reps, rep tempo etc - that's all fine and dandy, but it all means jack shit if your not pushing yourself to that uncomfortable place were changes take place".

Thanks for your answer Rob!

Keep up the good work in here Ross, you are starting to look quite beastly from the photos of you I see pop up every now and then

Ross, Don't confuse HIIT with HIT.

Are you confused yet ?!

Hey guys! Yes I'm very confused! Haha nah I know the difference, ones high intensity training and the other is high intensity interval training, the latter beig a form of cardio right?

Anyways a little update from me,
I'm training today', back biceps etc.

Rob, what did you think of my split a few posts back? Is that a good combination of exercises?

I've been doing loadsssss of gardening recently, growing tons of veg in the garden and even indoors haha will post my workout soon!

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:Thanks for your answer Rob!

Keep up the good work in here Ross, you are starting to look quite beastly from the photos of you I see pop up every now and then

Haha thanks mate, yeah a couple of people have mentioned that I look broader and have bigger arms, it's nice to hear compliments when you've worked hard