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So, starting another supplement roundtable. I always learn a lot from these. After reading Martin Berkhan's post on supplements awhile ago, I've been rather interested. http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/01/supplements-you-might-actually-find_09.html

 

To cite what he cites and anyone who supports yohimbine cites: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214405

 

Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.

Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise performance in soccer players.

 

Ostojic SM.

 

Institute of Sports Medicine, Sports Academy, Belgrade, Serbia and Montenegro. [email protected]

 

The main aim of this study was to determine the effects of yohimbine supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in professional soccer players. The athletes (20 top-level male soccer players) were allocated to two randomly assigned trials. Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days. Subjects in the placebo group ingested an equal number of identical-looking pills that contained cellulose. There were no statistically significant changes in body mass and muscle mass within or between trials (p > 0.05) after the supplementation protocol. Percentage of body fat significantly decreased in the yohimbine group after the supplementation protocol (9.3 +/- 1.1 vs. 7.1 +/- 2.2%; p < 0.05). Furthermore, fat mass was significantly lower in the yohimbine versus placebo trial at postsupplementation assessment (7.1 +/- 2.2 vs. 9.2 +/- 1.9%; p < 0.05). There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players. Nonetheless, yohimbine supplementation appears to be suitable as a fat loss strategy in elite athletes.

 

That said, yohimbine is supposed to block alpha-2 adrenoreceptors, which downregulate the release of epinephrine and norepinephrine, two primary lipolytic hormones. This also gives beta receptor stimulators, like caffeine and synephrine/ephedrine a more powerful effect. Also, alpha-2 receptors are supposed to be dense in the trouble areas in men and women, such as the stomach, hips and thighs. The blocking of these receptors apparently helps to mobilize fat in those areas, so it will be preferentially burned. The great think about yohimbine, unlike caffeine, synephrine and ephedrine, is that there is no negative feedback loop associated with the blocking of alpha-2 receptors, or so I am told. Basically, your body won't release less epi and such from yohimbine. I don't know how much truth there is to that, because the body sure loves homeostasis. Correct me if there is any misinformation there, I just want to get the basics on it down, so everyone can be on the same page. Like Martin says, though, all this does sound rather hokey.

 

I got some in powder form (yohimbine hcl) from trueprotein.com, which you must dose very carefully. I felt like a crack dealer, measuring out on a milligram sensitive scale. It has been about a week since I started, and I have this to say: it works. Maybe it is placebo effect, but I can definitely see it in the mirror, and I can only pinch half the fat I used to be able to. I am not going to say the pinch amount, because it is embarrassing. Intermittent fasting got me most of the way there, and yohimbine seems to work great for that last little push.

 

Also, yohimbine hcl, 11-hydroxy-yohimbine and alpha yohimbine are recommended over yohimbe extract. Yohimbe is supposed to contain alkaloids (same family as caffeine, theobromine, etc.) other than yohimbine. These can have certain negative effects that you aren't as likely to get from pure yohimbine. You want yohimbINE, not yohimbE.

 

Thoughts? I will get some pictures up in a week or two or three, and you guys can be the judge.

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Thanks for posting this. I've read many articles on yohimbine hcl and yohimbe (mainly in fitness magazines) and have always been a little leary. I was always worried about the jitters and side effects. Also I've seen yohimbe as a topical product in a lotion, but had my doubts. What dosage are you currently using if I may ask? Any less than desirable effects? Once again thanks for posting.....very interesting.

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Thanks for posting this. I've read many articles on yohimbine hcl and yohimbe (mainly in fitness magazines) and have always been a little leary. I was always worried about the jitters and side effects. Also I've seen yohimbe as a topical product in a lotion, but had my doubts. What dosage are you currently using if I may ask? Any less than desirable effects? Once again thanks for posting.....very interesting.

 

I had no issue with the jitters. Some people do, it is individual. I use 25mg, which I worked up to. I can't measure out 20mg easily due to my scoop, so I went with 25mg. Some guys over on intensemuscle.com go up to 50mg per day, some even higher. It is the (unscientific) semi-consensus over there, that for a man, 50mg is the max you should try. Some of the huge guys go higher, but they are huge. I think the recommended dose is around 1 mg per ten pounds of weight. So, I am going about seven mg over.

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I hadn't seen anything on yohimbine in a while, but glad to know that it seems to be working for you.

 

A decade ago, I used to pop a few along with a couple of ephedrine tabs and wash it down with a large coffee, and I'll say, it really packed a punch and made me wired all day. Don't know what it did for my fat loss, but I never had any shortage of energy

 

I'd heard some rumors from a "mad scientist" guy who did weird experiments with fat loss stuff some years back that he claimed there was some potential for spot reduction via a combination of yohimbine and DMSO, keeping it wrapped on problem areas for about an hour daily. Not sure if it had any merit, he swore it worked but said you'll smell like a can of tomato soup all day from doing it. That alone prevented me from wanting to experiment with that method

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Haha, yeah, that smell would keep me away, too. I had to look up DMSO. So, the idea is, DMSO penetrates the skin, so yohimbine can enter in a specific area easily?

 

But yeah, the yohimbine is working quite well. It seemed to take a few days before anything really started to happen, but these last couple days, each morning I have had less of a pouch down there. I expected a little something to happen in a few weeks of use, but never imagined it would happen this quickly and dramatically. It seems to work on a "woosh" effect. I haven't been weighing myself, so I don't know if the fat is just burning off, or burning off and then being redeposited once I eat, just not in the same area. Either way, I don't really care. Losing fat is easy, losing that pouch has been a bitch. I guess that is what I get for being so damned fat at 275 before.

 

That sounds like a potent stack you used to use. I can't imagine being short on energy using that. What I am doing for a stack, is brewing one strong ass half gallon of iced green tea, and slamming 24oz of it with each dose of yohimbine. I have some green tea extract coming from trueprotein.com in a few days. After one of the doses, I go on a brisk walk. I'll tell you one thing, I throw off some heat on that walk!

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This looks promising. I'll have to see if I can find some of this stuff locally, I just received an order of 16lb of protein and 2lbs of creatine yesterday from TP, so I won't be reordering anytime soon.

 

I'm a bit confused by the wording of study abstract though. How can fat decrease if both muscle and body mass stayed the same?

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This looks promising. I'll have to see if I can find some of this stuff locally, I just received an order of 16lb of protein and 2lbs of creatine yesterday from TP, so I won't be reordering anytime soon.

 

I'm a bit confused by the wording of study abstract though. How can fat decrease if both muscle and body mass stayed the same?

 

That confused me too the first time I read the study. It says their body mass did not change significantly, but their fat mass did. I figure they said that, because, say two pounds is an insignificant change in total body mass, but if those two pounds lost are all fat, and the subjects are lean, that is a significant change in fat mass.

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Just picked some up from GNC so let's see how well it works. I got the herbal extract because that's what they had. It's standardized so the potency should be right on, but I'll be mindful of side effects.

 

I think the guy there looked at me weird because it's marketed as a male sex enhancement supplement, but whatever.

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Just picked some up from GNC so let's see how well it works. I got the herbal extract because that's what they had. It's standardized so the potency should be right on, but I'll be mindful of side effects.

 

I think the guy there looked at me weird because it's marketed as a male sex enhancement supplement, but whatever.

 

You sure you picked up Yohimbine not Yohimbe. Yohimbe if I remember correctly is for male sexual enhancement.

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You sure you picked up Yohimbine not Yohimbe. Yohimbe if I remember correctly is for male sexual enhancement.

They're sort of the same thing. Yohimbe contains yohimbine. My bottle states: "Yohimbe Bark Extract (Pausinystalia yohimba)(2% Yohimbine Alkaloids = 9 mg) 450mg".

Yohimbine HCL is also marketed towards male sexual enhancement, it was pretty much thrown out as a bodybuilding supplement years ago because it failed to boost testosterone. But its use weight loss gets mixed reviews.

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You sure you picked up Yohimbine not Yohimbe. Yohimbe if I remember correctly is for male sexual enhancement.

They're sort of the same thing. Yohimbe contains yohimbine. My bottle states: "Yohimbe Bark Extract (Pausinystalia yohimba)(2% Yohimbine Alkaloids = 9 mg) 450mg".

Yohimbine HCL is also marketed towards male sexual enhancement, it was pretty much thrown out as a bodybuilding supplement years ago because it failed to boost testosterone. But its use weight loss gets mixed reviews.

 

Yeah, they are similar. Yohimbine is supposed to help you get it up, because it increases blood flow. I think it is basically useless for weight loss unless you are already pretty lean. It helps with the last few pounds.

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OT but related, have you tried ephedrine, cubby?

 

Nope. Do you have any experience with it? I've had synephrine before in a Speed Stack a couple of times. That stuff gets me wired, but that might be mostly due to the 250mg of caffeine.

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I haven't, when I started looking into it a while ago it was about the time there was a newfound war against the stuff. I only recently realized that it's still legal to buy and use, it just can't be sold as a dietary supplement. I'm not sure that you can source the pure stuff from within the US, at least what you can buy at a pharmacy usually contains an expectorant as well. energyreload.net is a canadian place that sells the pure stuff. Purely for decongestant use of course. I just found that site while poking around links off of lyle's site. I have no experience with them.

Edited by chrisjs
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Huh, that is interesting. I was under the impression that the stuff was under a complete ban again as well. Lyle is a big supporter of it, as well as a bunch of the guys over at intensemuscle.com. The media has me scared shitless of it though, I must admit. I'd really need to look into it before even considering it.

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Ephedra or Ephdrenie never really had the potential in my opinion for weight loss / fat loss. It works great for sinuses I used to take it alot when my allergies were kicking my ass. But I used to know alot of people who took the pure form prior to its ban and they never really noticed anything. Its something you don't want to over use and since it doesn't show that good of results I would say don't bother with it since it does has side effects.

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Ephedra or Ephdrenie never really had the potential...
The ECA stack (with or without the aspirin) is one of the few proven weight management supplements. From what I remember there were just too many fatties popping the pills in between their big mac and diet cokes and it exacerbated their already poor heart health.

 

One of many:

Herbal ephedra/caffeine for weight loss: a 6-month randomized safety and efficacy trial.

 

Boozer CN, Daly PA, Homel P, Solomon JL, Blanchard D, Nasser JA, Strauss R, Meredith T.

 

New York Obesity Research Center, St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital and Columbia University, New York 10025, USA.

 

OBJECTIVE: To examine long-term safety and efficacy for weight loss of an herbal Ma Huang and Kola nut supplement (90/192 mg/day ephedrine alkaloids/caffeine).

DESIGN: Six-month randomized, double-blind placebo controlled trial.

SUBJECTS: A total of 167 subjects (body mass index (BMI) 31.8+/-4.1 kg/m(2)) randomized to placebo (n=84) or herbal treatment (n=83) at two outpatient weight control research units.

MEASUREMENTS: Primary outcome measurements were changes in blood pressure, heart function and body weight. Secondary variables included body composition and metabolic changes. RESULTS: By last observation carried forward analysis, herbal vs placebo treatment decreased body weight (-5.3+/-5.0 vs. -2.6+/-3.2 kg, P<0.001), body fat (-4.3+/-3.3 vs. -2.7+/-2.8 kg, P=0.020) and LDL-cholesterol (-8+/-20 vs. 0+/-17 mg/dl, P=0.013), and increased HDL-cholesterol (+2.7+/-5.7 vs. -0.3+/-6.7 mg/dl, P=0.004). Herbal treatment produced small changes in blood pressure variables (+3 to -5 mm Hg, P< or =0.05), and increased heart rate (4+/-9 vs. -3+/-9 bpm, P<0.001), but cardiac arrhythmias were not increased (P>0.05). By self-report, dry mouth (P<0.01), heartburn (P<0.05), and insomnia (P<0.01) were increased and diarrhea decreased (P<0.05). Irritability, nausea, chest pain and palpitations did not differ, nor did numbers of subjects who withdrew.

CONCLUSIONS: In this 6-month placebo-controlled trial, herbal ephedra/caffeine (90/192 mg/day) promoted body weight and body fat reduction and improved blood lipids without significant adverse events.

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I agree, green tea powder is an acquired taste. I thought it was really bitter, so I bought some vegan caps and made my own pills. Much easier to get down. I also like the boost it gives. I still haven't given in and tried the yohimbine as I'm a tad afraid as to effects in females. I can't find much femlae specific info on it. Right now I'm taking green tea, CLA, and yerba mate.

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Maybe I should buy some v-caps. I probably will just continue to choke it down, though.

 

It was originally thought that yohimbine increased testosterone, because it helps with erections. Researchers found out that increased blood flow is what helps with them. There are no negative effects in women that don't occur in men.

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The ECA stack (with or without the aspirin) is one of the few proven weight management supplements. From what I remember there were just too many fatties popping the pills in between their big mac and diet cokes and it exacerbated their already poor heart health.

 

Exactly. The "if a bit works, more is better!" mentality helped shut ephedra/ephedrine down for dietary supplements due to the lunacy of people taking WAY too much for what they could handle. I once read a list of the first eighty "deaths attributed to ephedra", which included people who were also taking cocaine, and a guy that was shot in an armed robbery (but, it must have been the ephedra that killed him ) Combined with it's use in the manufacture of methamphetamine made it a perfect target for the FDA to slam-dunk into oblivion as best they could.

 

I used it off and on for about 4 years before it had a long period of disappearance - I recently started noticing the old tablets back at gas stations again, so apparently they're getting back to being available again, but it's never 100% pure ephedrine you'll find. It's always mixed with expectorants to help get around the current regulations, but it works just the same - even years ago, pure ephedrine tablets were pretty rare. If you stay within a reasonable dosage and DON'T take massive quantities or have any medical reasons to avoid it, there's no real worry for most people to take a tablet either by itself or in the old E/C/A stack. There was a lot of talk about 10 years back about how the aspirin part wasn't all that essential, I don't know how much it's changed since then, but all the fat-loss experts were saying that a low-dose baby aspirin was fine enough (and that white willow bark was useless, for those that thought it worked in place of aspirin).

 

But, like anything else, it seems to give a pretty mild effect for actual fat loss, most experts were always saying that the E/C/A stack gave about a 5% boost for metabolism, but it was no magic bullet like people had expected. There were also lots of people talking years ago about swapping out the aspirin for yohimbine, but when I tried it, I was wired and had the chills at the same time, it was a bit much for me. Though, not quite like when I acquired a bottle of clenbuterol in Mexico a decade back (hey, I have asthma, so it was legit ), which made my hands shake terribly for hours after I would take it. A potent metabolic booster, I guess, but not worth the side effect that came with it when I stacked it with a nice, big coffee in the morning

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Yohimbine HCL Powder from tp

 

Is that the $8.99/3grams stuff or am I reading that wrong...

 

You are right. 3g is actually a shitload when you are only taking about 20mg/day. I thought it was expensive as hell at first, too. There are caps, but trueprotein.com only has gelatin caps.

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