Decline Bench Press

How come I never hear or read anything about decline bench presses? Currently on Chest Day I do...

Flat Bench Press - Bar

Decline Bench Press - Bar

Incline Bench Press - Dumb Bells

Flat Flies

Push Ups (Wide Hands)

Pull Overs - Dumb Bells (Only if I have any strength left at this time)

Am I wasting time and energy with the decline Bench? Also, should I be doing incline flies instead of flat flies?

i think decline can be useful, but i think people go on far too much of an angle sometimes.......all my benching is done very slightly decline as little as my head 2-3 inches lower than my ass, this little bit of decline feels alot nicer on my shoulders than normal flat press. just give things a go and see how they work for you......just do it slowly and build up the poundage gradually incase you get injured doing something your body isnt used to .

what are your goals with the training program?

Hi AZvegan

The decline press is actually a great deal more productive for the pec's than is flat pressing.. it engages the entire pec, not just the lower pec, and as Mike pointed out, its a great deal easier on the pec/shoulder tendons.

At the beginning of this video, 6x Mr Olympia Dorian Yates explains why the decline bench press is the most effective pec exercise

As a natural trainee, i personally would recommend you preform no more than 2-3 movements per bodypart. In fact the chest workout that Dorian provides in the above video is ideal.

Thanks for the info guys. mrbear666, my goals are to put on some muscle, but more important is to trim the last of my fat. I'm not looking to be a body builder, that ship as sailed many years ago. I lost 50 lbs a few years back but then came to a stall. I think if I can shed another 10 or so and add a little muscle I'll have a decent cut and I could figure out what's next from there.

HIT Rob, so am I doing too many body part movements in my workout? I only work one body part a day and do about six exercises per body part. I could always cut that in half and do two body parts a day which will allow me to hit each muscle group twice a week.

Thanks for the info guys. mrbear666, my goals are to put on some muscle, but more important is to trim the last of my fat. I'm not looking to be a body builder, that ship as sailed many years ago. I lost 50 lbs a few years back but then came to a stall. I think if I can shed another 10 or so and add a little muscle I'll have a decent cut and I could figure out what's next from there.

 

HIT Rob, so am I doing too many body part movements in my workout? I only work one body part a day and do about six exercises per body part. I could always cut that in half and do two body parts a day which will allow me to hit each muscle group twice a week.

Hey AZ vegan...

I understand the logic of training a bodypart per day, but there is an inherent problem with training this way, and that is it only allows for localized muscle recovery, what it doesn't allow for, is systemic recovery. Its not just the targeted / localized skeletal muscles that are effected by intense training, its the entire physical system that's effected, and if you don't not allow enough time to elapse for systemic recovery to take place, then your really training in a counterproductive way.

Keep in mind, hypertrophy is a tri-phase process, employ the stimulus (intense training), then allow for systemic recovery (compensation), and then finally allow for growth (overcompensation) to take place. Train before the last two phases take place, and you short circuit the entire process.

For the natural trainee, training briefly and intensely (no more than half hour bouts) 2-3x per week will produce best results. Leave the one bodypart per day training method to the steroid / growth hormone infused genetic freaks in the muscle mags:)

Hope this helps

Rob

Thanks Rob, makes a ton of sense. I'll have to cut it back and give it a try.

i agree with Rob, very hard brief training and a good clean diet really does wonders for the physique let us know how you get on mate!

Rob, I just read you blog from last May when where you listed your training log explaining the brief bouts of high intensity training. It sounds like not enough lifting but I'm sure it is and I have to wrap my head around it and give it a try. I am going on vacation in a couple of weeks but when I come back I am going to go straight into this training method and I will let you know how it goes.

Rob, I just read you blog from last May when where you listed your training log explaining the brief bouts of high intensity training. It sounds like not enough lifting but I'm sure it is and I have to wrap my head around it and give it a try. I am going on vacation in a couple of weeks but when I come back I am going to go straight into this training method and I will let you know how it goes.

Hey AZvegan

Indeed, on paper Hitters workouts don't sound like much, but HIT is a very different species of exericse, HIT makes a much deeper / greater inroad into the body. Its my belief that this level of intense physical is an absolute requirement, the stress must be of a high order/magnitude in order to warrant an adaptive response from the body, we know this from evolutionary biology.

By the same token, you cant tolerate or expose yourself to this level of intense physical stress for long, overexposure to intense physical stress is toxic and counterproductive, this is essentially why the HIT workouts are kept brief and are low in volume, and since the inroad is deeper, the compensation/recovery times are also longer. Moreover, as you grow progressively stronger, the stresses on the body also grow greater, so were you may be able to get away with training 2-3 times per week at first with HIT, you may well find you require even less exposure over time.

This last few weeks I've been training 2-3x per week with a little more volume, however this is only because i haven't been training to all out failure, i guess you could call it "active rest", this was to ensure my lower order fibers did not de-compensate, while at the same time my CNS got a brief rest. Tomorrow am back to my balls till the walls workouts:)

If you want to know more about HIT or would like some links, just give me a shout

Best and have a great holiday

Rob

Hi Rob, thanks for all of the help. Could you give me an example of a weeks work out for you? Below is what I was thinking, but is it too much?

Saturday - Chest, Shoulders and Triceps

Flat (or incline) Bench Press

Flat (or incline) Flies

Standing Lateral Raise

Military Press

French Curls (also call sculled crushers in the US)

Dips

Monday - Back and Biceps

Bend over row (Reverse Grip - I feel them in my lats best)

Pull Ups

Preacher Curls

Hammer Curls

Wednesday - Legs and Abs

Leg Curls

Leg Lifts

Calf Lifts

Squats (and/or lunges)

Knee Lifts

Crunches

I don't go to a gym, I work out at home so I don't have access to machines.

I also can't wait to try the cluster 1 1/4 rep methods that you talk about, I'm just not sure which exercise should get which one.

Bill

Hey Bill,

Its my Pleasure:)

If using a 3 way split (push, pull, legs being my favorite, i go with something like this

W/O A

Incline Press

Side Lateral Raise

Dips

*The Pec's, frontal delt's and triceps receive sufficient stimulation from the IP and Dips, and the lateral head of the delt is stimulated with the LR. Adding an overhead press or triceps extensions is not necessary, and may well be counterproductive.

W/O B

Underhand Chin

Row

Curl or DL

* The underhand chin puts the biceps into their strongest position, making them less of a weak link. Moreover the Underhand Chin strongly engages the pecs and abs, its really an upper body squat.

W/O C

Leg Press

Calf Press

Leg Curl

* I personally don't Squat or Deadlift due to lower back issues (and because of the fact i don't have the ideal structure for free weight squatting), If you can sqaut, swap the LP for Squats, or a Squat variation, just be very careful though, if training alone at home i wouldn't recommend going to all out failure on them.

* If your performing movements such as Squats, BB Rows, Dips, Underhand Chins, your abs will have received sufficient stimulation.

This is an abbreviated version of Mike Mentzer heavy duty book 1 routine, low volume, but still addressing all the major muscle groups, I've used it myself for a number of years with good success (as have everyone I've trained), and still return to it every so often. When using the above routine i'm in and out of the gym in less than 12-15 minutes, however the duration of the workout is not important, what is important, is that the intensity of effort is were it needed to be.

Yes mate, 1 1/4 reps, as well as J-Reps are good "low stress" high intensity techniques (as they force you to use a lighter load), they produce more contractions per unit of time, without having to add more and more volume. The cluster sets are one of my favorite Brain Johnston techniques, its an advanced "high stress" high intensity technique which allows for deeper inroading, essentially its just a modified rest pause method, use sparingly:)

Hope this helps

Rob

Yes Rob, it does help and I am going to start using this next week. I agree 100% with you that the duration of the work out isn't important, it's what you do during the workout. My only other question is what do you do for warm up with a program like this?

Warming up is really an individual thing, for myself, i tend to preform 2 nice slow and controlled moderately heavy low rep sets on the first movement of each of the workouts, on the second and third movements, one warm-up set tends to be sufficient. What i wouldn't recommend as a warm-up, is preforming super light, high rep sets, i see people doing this in the gym all the time, they warm-up with a weight that is way to light and they just bounce up and down 20 or so times, all this does is increase the risk of an injury. I also don't recommend stretching before a workout , its the contraction the draws blood into a muscle, thus producing a warm-up effect. Moreover, there's ample research that shows stretching for just a few minutes before a strength training session can actually negatively effect strength levels by as much as 20%.

If you have injuries, i find putting a little drop of tiger balm on the injured area before the workout helps, or eve just a hot water bottle, i do this with my lower back and left knee before workouts. Helps a little:)

1 final question and then I will leave you alone. I believe you do high sets with reps to failure with this method. (i.e. 105kgs x 8 reps to failure; which I take as 8 sets each set you do reps to failure). What is the rest period between the sets and do you leave the weight the same for all 8 sets? OK, 1 question with 2 parts. lol

Hey Bill

Lol, no worries mate...

When training to failure and beyond, i perform as mentioned, one or two low rep warm-up sets per movement, i then perform just one single working set to failure per movement. One single set to failure is more than sufficient for stimulate growth Bill. Trust me:)

interesting thread guys! I too spent like decades with gym membership, doing alternating workouts with grouped together stuff like AZVegan describes. Generally hit plateau and stayed there for years with no real impact. Then discovered what Rob is describing with both more cross-body workouts (mixing in together in same workout multiple muscle groups), HIIT concepts and most needed core/leg work at home (lots of various squat actions, ski-switches, burpees, etc), planking, and yoga on a down day not and then.

Night and day results vs my chest/should days then arms/back days, leg days, etc.....

Rob, I am going to get started on this tonight as I am excited to try it out. I have heard and read about before but never gave it a try. I will let you know how it works out. If all goes well I am thinking that I will build some muscle while trimming out the extra fat.

Thanks for the input VeganBadass, as I told Rob I am going to try this technique starting today because I am excited to change things up. I am extremely hopeful that I will get good results but I am sure there will be a learning process involved.