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Douglas Graham


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I saw him give a talk at the North American Vegetarian Society's vegan Summerfest summer before last. It seemed like everything he had to say was one nu age buzz term after the next.

The morning after I was eating breakfast with some vegan doctors who were also giving talks at the conference. They said it politely but they thought he was full of it.

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That's too bad Beforewisdom. What do you mean by nu buzz term after the next?

 

From my experience working for him last Oct. He isn't full of it.

 

His talk as well as his video didn't use terms from medicine, didn't use any terms from nutrition and his claims did not refer to any randomized double blind studies, or clinical research at all. His talk included terms from various eastern and/or mystical religions, used out of context, in ways that conflicted with their original definitions. These terms were combined in ways where they did not make any sense if you knew their original definitions.

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are you talking david wolfe or doug graham? lol!

course those docs are gonna bad mouth doug. or they will look like fools eating the grains that they admit are damaging to both humans, the animals and the planet..

 

Durianrider, these were vegan medical doctors who promote eating vegan at a 5 day vegan Summerfest. I am not going to mention their names as we were casually sitting around a breakfast table having a conversation nobody expected to be displayed on a web board. Every one of those people would be a well recognized vegan medical author on this forum.

 

 

Beyond that, this post I just made also fits my thoughts why I disagree with your doubts quoted above

 

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13062&p=158429#p158429

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I haven't read his book yet, but his program appears to use the basics of human metabolism very well. Most of the evidence on my blog supports his diet, except for the fact that it is high in simple sugars. Still, the major thing for a healthy muscle-building diet is to maximize the ratio of CHO:FAT in the diet, using plant foods, and his plan does that well. Fruit is easy to digest, so if you can afford to overfeed on it you can build muscle without the fat (especially with exercise). I think my blog would be of interest to anyone thinking about 80/10/10, as the scientific evidence heavily supports what that guy is doing.

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Hey everyone,

 

I read about the 80/10/10 diet on foodnsport.com a long time ago, I listened to talks/interviews of Doug Graham, but now that I'm in Canada I finally was able to catch the book! And I'm reading it at the moment...

 

Here is, so far, my criticism on Doug Graham and the 80/10/10:

 

Nr.1: This is a general one, don't know if it should be discussed here: the whole theory is standing on the old vegan ape theory, which says that our primate ancestors only at vegan food. Well first, nobody knows how it really was, but on the other hand I think we should consider two things: we do not know of one "natural" culture (past or present) that lived totally vegan, and secondly, there is no primate that lives totally vegan, especially those that are most closely related to us. I think it is simple-minded to say things like "when the calories from animal (+insect) origin only resemble 4% of total calories we might just as well neglect them“. Even though it's the minority of calories it can or could still have a huge impact nutrion-wise providing certain nutrients.

And in my opinion it is even more simple-minded of Dr. Graham to ignore this issue at all so it's easier to convince people.

 

Nr.2: In his argumentation in favor of a low-protein diet he mentions that mother's milk only contains 5% protein. Then how about the fat-percentage in mother's milk?! It's about 50percent, right?

I don't want to say that you should eat a 50% fat diet here... I just think it's pretty weak to use the mother's milk argumentation for protein, but don't even mention the fat-percentage....

 

Nr.3: For a diet that's suggested for your entire life, his book is way too simplistic! He says it's for all stages of your life.... well I don't think so. When your brain is developed, you might be able to go that low in fat, but what about the babies who need a whole array of fatty acids,especially DHA and EPA which is very low in omega3 from plants. Obviously the 80/10/10 was not written for babies or children. But when it says „for a lifetime“ that also includes being pregnant for (most?) women. For an optimal development of the fetus and the baby (mother's milk) I think it's critical to be aware of differentiation between the different fatty acids.

I'm not sure if Dr. Graham does not have a similar opinion on this or if he just doesn't mention it so the 80/10/10 theory is more convincing...

 

Nr.4: The story of Ronnie Grandison!

Dr. Graham is not shy to tell what kind of athletes he has helped over the years. One guy that he mentions by name, and that name is actually mentioned everywhere (even amazon description), is the NBA basketball pro Ronnie Grandison.

 

Here Dr.Graham tells his story about Ronnie:

I would help them (the athletes) as best that I could. And one of them, a player from the NBA, a gentleman named Ronnie Grandison came to me and said, “Look, this is my last year of playing basketball pro and I want to do the best I can.” And I said, “ Well, you know, don’t waste my time because I can’t imagine that your going to do what I’m gonna suggest.” And he goes, “No I really will, I am that kind of guy, I am extremely motivated.” So, I explained to him what to do over a series of telephone calls and he did it really to the letter, got phenomenal results and felt so good at the end of the year that he continued and went back the next year and tried out for his club who had told him he was too old the year before, but now he wasn’t too old anymore. Now, he was fitter, faster, shot better, thought more clearly and ended up playing another five years of NBA ball.

 

Ok, now here is the story told in a different way, just by the facts:

Ronnie Grandison totally only played NBA basketball for a total of 4 seasons. Season 88/89 at the age of 24, 91/92 (age 27), 94/95 (age 30), 95/96 (age 31). But Dr. Graham says „another 5 years of NBA ball“. Well that means this does not include his first season. That only leaves us with another 3 years.

And now here comes the kicker: even though Grandison „was fitter, faster, shot better“ he was only able to play in a total of 2 games in his 2nd season (age 27), a total of 3 games in his 3rd season and a total of 28 games in his 4th season. I should mention that an NBA regular season takes 82 games. (in comparison he was able to play 72 games in his first season). As a side note, in the few games he played Grandison played 8.3 minutes and 2.4 points per game.

Those are just the facts. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grandro01.html

And it gets obvious that not only does Dr. Graham tells a different version with a different interpretation, he also changes facts... One might also call this „lying“.

 

If Dr. Graham needs stories like this to sell his theory or his book, then I'm very sorry to say, that in my eyes this man is not really what I call trustworthy.

This might seem as offending and totally unreal to people who have met him in person. Actually, I'm sure he personally is a shining example of raw food and 80/10/10. But the success of his diet doesn't need to hold true for others. But he is presenting it as if it was.

 

What I want emphasize here: maybe the 80/10/10 really is a very healthy or even close to optimal diet. I'm not ruling that out! I want to stay with the facts and I simply criticize the way Dr. Graham is selling it and part of his argumentation.

 

I wonder what's your opinion on all this....

 

Sunny greetings!

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Nr.3: For a diet that's suggested for your entire life, his book is way too simplistic! He says it's for all stages of your life.... well I don't think so. When your brain is developed, you might be able to go that low in fat, but what about the babies who need a whole array of fatty acids,especially DHA and EPA which is very low in omega3 from plants. Obviously the 80/10/10 was not written for babies or children. But when it says „for a lifetime“ that also includes being pregnant for (most?) women. For an optimal development of the fetus and the baby (mother's milk) I think it's critical to be aware of differentiation between the different fatty acids.

I'm not sure if Dr. Graham does not have a similar opinion on this or if he just doesn't mention it so the 80/10/10 theory is more convincing...

 

I have his book too and can see all of your points. Although I've tried to do 80-10-10 a couple times, I just don't have the will power. Right now I'm "doing" a vegan diet that's mostly fruit and salad, but also a few cooked things thrown in each day (oatmeal, rice+beans, etc.).

 

Dr. Graham is a (the?) moderator on this message board: http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/

 

There was one thread a while back where he talks about 80-10-10 for young children. Basically, his take is that children should be breast feeding until there about 4 or 5 years old. Slowly weening throughout that time while increasing fruits until they (the child) finally "decides" he's done with breast milk. Apparently this is the "natural" time span for this type of thing. Obviously, these days, you won't find many woman willing to breast feed that long.

 

As for what a pregnant woman or new-mother should eat, he feels that the standard 80-10-10 works fine - just more calories.

 

I'm not defending him or his book, just passing on what I read.

 

Greg

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I would really want to read that book, however i cant buy it in Hungary, it's a shame.

Probably i will order it from the UK or from the USA if i have to, with some other books that i cant get here.

 

So i cant tell anything about the book, but i think the 811 diet is quite good, i am on it for 2weeks now and i feel better and my skin is better so for me it is good. And also i believe that for humans the fruits are the best food, just think about.

We should not buy any supplements that they try to sell us in the name of healty, nowadays every supermarket and shops are full with healthy stuff, is it so easy? Then we could live forever. Usually lot of people uses everything for their health, teas and vitamins and little this and little that but when i look at them i see that they are far from good health.

So i think what is simple and natural is the best for us.

 

but still. i am very much intrested in your opinions about the book and lifestyle, its a forum is not it?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've been on Dr Graham's diet for 9 months-just eating raw fruit and greens and a very small amount of raw nuts. The diet has revolutionized my life; I can not say enough good about it! My strength skyrocketed within a few days ( I was vegan before goin raw), I lost 40 lbs of excess weight in 4 months with no cardio, my joint pain vanished, my skin became pristine, my blood pressure is continuing to drop-for many people, this diet works incredibly well. At 47, I am gaining about a pound a month of muscle and I have 6 pack abs without doing any cardio. I basically never get sick, my recovery time is amazing, I can run for miles, and so on.

 

I've also found fruit to be pretty cheap; in season I use watermelon and bananas as staples. I typically buy 200 lbs a week for about $60 (my wife and children are also vegans and they eat a lot of fruit too.)

 

I highly recomend this diet! But make sure if you try it to keep your fat consumption UNDER 15% of total calories; otherwise it is hard to efficiently burn the sugar and you won't feel good. Do it like he says and you will be amazed!

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