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Just when you thought it was safe to go out...


michaelhobson
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We've had forum missions and visions since the onset in 05 when this forum got started. It is expected that the members will follow the guidelines.

 

It can be very easy or very difficult or manage a community of people and for the most part, it hasn't been too hard over the years because we have a very good group of people who choose to be positive and treat other members respectfully.

 

That is all we ask.

 

We are making a number of changes in what I feel is in the best interest in the forum and that is what I have to do as the manager of the group.

 

Sometimes I'm popular and sometimes I'm unpopular based on the decisions I make but I do so in the best interest in the community and have been succeeding for years based on the concepts we set forth with from the onset here on this forum.

 

I do encourage people to participate but I also encourage people to find other forums to use if they don't like the way "I" handle things on here. There are plenty of other places to go and I support a number of other online vegan communities.

 

I appreciate the community for making my job pretty easy. I'm not online much these days but we continue to move forward in a positive way with or without my heavy involvement.

 

Off to the gym now.....gotta stay positive.

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We've had forum missions and visions since the onset in 05 when this forum got started. It is expected that the members will follow the guidelines.

 

It can be very easy or very difficult or manage a community of people and for the most part, it hasn't been too hard over the years because we have a very good group of people who choose to be positive and treat other members respectfully.

 

That is all we ask.

 

We are making a number of changes in what I feel is in the best interest in the forum and that is what I have to do as the manager of the group.

 

Sometimes I'm popular and sometimes I'm unpopular based on the decisions I make but I do so in the best interest in the community and have been succeeding for years based on the concepts we set forth with from the onset here on this forum.

 

I also encourage people to find other forums to use if they don't like the way "I" handle things on here. There are plenty of other places to go and I support a number of other online vegan communities.

 

I appreciate the community for making my job pretty easy. I'm not online much these days but we continue to move forward in a positive way with or without my heavy involvement.

 

Off to the gym now.....gotta stay positive.

 

I've highlighted exactly what I intend to do from now on. It saddens and angers me simultaneously. I've always felt a deep connection with the friendships I've developed on this board. I've valued the freedom you previously gave members to express themselves - even if just in a silly photo-diary way or in a nudity or sexually-themed thread. I always appreciated how inclusive the board was - even for lil ol' leg weight walking me who couldn't afford a gym. I can't accept the new level of political correctness now expected of board members. I can't go along with the censorship and hypersensitivity. It's a true shame that you no longer participate and run the board. When you were doing the bulk of it, I can think of nothing but positive things to say. Now, that you are relying heavily on the opinion of the "chosen ones", I feel the dynamic of the board has shifted and find that I can't sit back and continue to participate. It's sad more than anything.

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I know I am new and I only met Robert once but he is hands down one of the nicest, laid back guys I have ever met...I'm sure this hurts him as much as everyone else. Besides...it's just a forum...we all lead lives outside of this community.... If I got deleted I would be able to move on....just like Astro and Potter are I am sure.

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I know not everyone will understand or agree with how I handle certain situations but I put a lot of thought into it and there is so much to consider, it would surprise a lot of you.

 

I base my decisions based on what I believe is the best interest of the forum community. I do that each and every time and that is how I will continue to make decisions. I look for the best solutions I can find that provide the best outcome for the community.

 

That's all I can say and at the end of the day, I'm OK with me and the decisions I made to continue to support this forum.

 

Thanks for understanding. I know many still won't and like I said, I encourage those who do enjoy the forum to stay but if for any reason any of you no longer enjoy your time here, please move on to another forum. I may even be able to help you find one that fits your style better than this one does. We build community and factor in a lot of things as we move forward and we've done a lot of positive things for a lot of people and we'll continue to do that as we grow.

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I don't mind it really. Things happen. And not following the rules pertaining to common community standards and how to act with others is a good reason for acount deactivation in my book.

 

Although I do hope that suitable warnings were issued to said members before there time here was cut short. And I am sure there were warnings. And if they had been warned and still continued then they deserve what they get.

 

I haven't been here for any of what has gone down. In fact I haven't seen an ounce of dis-respect or offensive material( Besides the somewhat common religoun/god bashing that goes down here but most of that is just harmless fun ) But I don't blame Robert. He is after all the cheif of the Vegan Bodybuilding Police Squad. And quite possibly one of the nicest people here. And might I add maintaining peace on a forum is not an easy task.

 

Cheers mate. You're doing a great job.

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I spend more time on this forum than Facebook and Myspace combined!

I love everybody here!

 

I'm pretty oblivious to Astrocat and Veganpotter leaving. I don't know why they left, but it's their business, not mine. I will miss them though, and wish them the very best in whatever they're doing.

 

I like the atmosphere of this forum and I hope to stay for a very long time ^^

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We've had forum missions and visions since the onset in 05 when this forum got started. It is expected that the members will follow the guidelines.

 

It can be very easy or very difficult or manage a community of people and for the most part, it hasn't been too hard over the years because we have a very good group of people who choose to be positive and treat other members respectfully.

 

That is all we ask.

 

We are making a number of changes in what I feel is in the best interest in the forum and that is what I have to do as the manager of the group.

 

Sometimes I'm popular and sometimes I'm unpopular based on the decisions I make but I do so in the best interest in the community and have been succeeding for years based on the concepts we set forth with from the onset here on this forum.

 

I also encourage people to find other forums to use if they don't like the way "I" handle things on here. There are plenty of other places to go and I support a number of other online vegan communities.

 

I appreciate the community for making my job pretty easy. I'm not online much these days but we continue to move forward in a positive way with or without my heavy involvement.

 

Off to the gym now.....gotta stay positive.

 

I've highlighted exactly what I intend to do from now on. It saddens and angers me simultaneously. I've always felt a deep connection with the friendships I've developed on this board. I've valued the freedom you previously gave members to express themselves - even if just in a silly photo-diary way or in a nudity or sexually-themed thread. I always appreciated how inclusive the board was - even for lil ol' leg weight walking me who couldn't afford a gym. I can't accept the new level of political correctness now expected of board members. I can't go along with the censorship and hypersensitivity. It's a true shame that you no longer participate and run the board. When you were doing the bulk of it, I can think of nothing but positive things to say. Now, that you are relying heavily on the opinion of the "chosen ones", I feel the dynamic of the board has shifted and find that I can't sit back and continue to participate. It's sad more than anything.

 

 

okay bye.

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I know I am new and I only met Robert once but he is hands down one of the nicest, laid back guys I have ever met...I'm sure this hurts him as much as everyone else. Besides...it's just a forum...we all lead lives outside of this community.... If I got deleted I would be able to move on....just like Astro and Potter are I am sure.

 

 

very well said.

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People getting removed from web boards is a fact of life. It doesn't make the admins ogres. I've been on a lot of web boards. Usually (not always) when someone is removed from a web board it is obvious why. In my opinion if someone is not getting along with Rob or Rich it is likely that person is putting some work into it.

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I know Robert very well and can say that he puts a lot of thought into any problems with the board. I stand by his decisions and will continue to do so.

 

As for certain members being banned or asked to leave, Robert has given more than enough explanation. I realize that Astrocat appeared to be okay on the forum but she could be downright frightening if she felt you somehow insulted her - because then the pms would start. I was on the receiving end of this and came very close to asking her to never contact me again. And this was over a quote from a nutritionist that was directed at no one. I don't know how many other members got this treatment but it was very upsetting and completely inappropriate. I never told Robert about it but if he received similar pms and decided that she shouldn't have such access to his forum members, then it's entirely understandable, IMO.

 

Sometimes removing a member or two means that more members will feel comfortable to remain here. This is not a perfect world and we can't all just get along. For those who have left and/or have started their own forum, good luck with finding the perfect mix of people. You may have it for a time, but things change.

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Okay, I am not much for confrontation, but I have been talking about this over at Veganpeople.com and feel that I need to say something here or it is like I am talking behind some people's backs. I am upset with how things on this forum have been going as of late and I have been slightly tempted to take a leave, but my love for it has kept me. This is such a great place for vegan athletes and of all kinds to get together, support each other and get some exposure. It is a wonderful way to help destroy some of the misconceptions about veganism.

 

However, we have become so prone to in-fighting that we may soon destroy all the work that has gone into this forum and all the good that will surely come out of it if it moves forward successfully.

 

I am unhappy with the decisions to ban people. I understood Potter, since he had repeated warnings that he was being too abrasive, but I don't feel banning Astrocat was appropriate. It was Robert's decision and as such I will stand by it and not try to rile anything up over it. The decision has been made, it is over, time to move on.

 

I am with Lean and Green on the moving on thing. Clearly, not everyone can be made happy about these recent decisions, so the only thing to do is march forward and attempt to put this behind us. This is not to say that we should from now on put a facade of happiness towards each other; it is only to say that we should try to get over this current state of affairs and continue to build a community that thrives on lively debate and can get over both minor and major disagreements without one party or another exploding in a miasma of blind emotion.

 

We need to develop some thicker skin around here, because frankly I, and I know many others, are getting sick of nearly everything exploding into a shit storm which accomplishes nothing but leaving everyone smelling at the end.

 

I love this forum. It is the first forum I came across and actually wanted to stay and contribute to conversations in because I felt it was constructive and not filled with minds who want to mute and bash each other. It is losing that flair and I am losing my patience.

 

Please be reasonable again.

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I agree with so much that has been said here. The good stuff anyway, not the stuff about being pissed off and leaving. I've said it, but I'll say it agin. I love veganbodybuilding.com, and everyone here is stuck with me. I am saddened when members leave, but that is pretty much up to them not anyone else. If you aren't being cordial to other members, don't like the way the forum is run, and don't follow simple guidelines like being nice to the other members that belong here, how can you be that upset when you're asked to leave or your account gets deleted. Maybe all of this occurring will make people think more before they post a nasty or unthoughtful post.

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I am unhappy with the decisions to ban people. I understood Potter, since he had repeated warnings that he was being too abrasive, but I don't feel banning Astrocat was appropriate. It was Robert's decision and as such I will stand by it and not try to rile anything up over it. The decision has been made, it is over, time to move on.

I'm not aware of a single example of Rob ever having a disagreement with someone and actually trying to reason with the person. Can you point to even one single example of that happening on this board? From what I can tell, to actually engage anyone who disagrees with him would be "not being positive".

 

As such I have zero confidence that Rob really engaged Potter by pm in any meaningful way.

 

And for someone to get to 10,000 posts and then without any actual incident suddenly get banned is simply fucked. I have serious doubts that they're still friends and I would like to see evidence of this meeting they're supposed to have this summer. If they were still "friends" then there would not have been any reason to delete his account.

 

I am with Lean and Green on the moving on thing. Clearly, not everyone can be made happy about these recent decisions, so the only thing to do is march forward and attempt to put this behind us. This is not to say that we should from now on put a facade of happiness towards each other; it is only to say that we should try to get over this current state of affairs and continue to build a community that thrives on lively debate and can get over both minor and major disagreements without one party or another exploding in a miasma of blind emotion.

 

We need to develop some thicker skin around here, because frankly I, and I know many others, are getting sick of nearly everything exploding into a shit storm which accomplishes nothing but leaving everyone smelling at the end.

 

I love this forum. It is the first forum I came across and actually wanted to stay and contribute to conversations in because I felt it was constructive and not filled with minds who want to mute and bash each other. It is losing that flair and I am losing my patience.

 

Please be reasonable again.

You have more compassion than quite a few people here.

 

What Rob is doing is riding very frequent posters like Compassionate Girl and Potter to build his forum and even though he didn't like either he kept his disagreement to himself (because that's what he does) and waited till he thought they had attracted enough other people here, then without ever really attempting to iron out his disagreement, he "throws them under the bus". He's slowly trying to make the forum in his own bizarre advoidant personality image.

 

It's useless to talk to him because he doesn't engage anyone who disagrees with him. He doesn't suddenly become a different person by pm. And have you not noticed he never actually admits being wrong about anything?

 

He thinks he's being positive. He's not. He's one of the most negative vegans I've ever known in that he doesn't believe people can work out their differences.

 

And Astrocat is a wonderful person. Her treatment here has been horrible.

 

There are a lot of meat eaters who are looking for any way possible to be critical of vegans. The way this forum is being run could potentially give them lots of ammunition. Posts like that of DV, Zack, etc make vegans look like hypocrites or even worse, people who care about animals more than people. But such behavior is exactly the same on endless ugly forums.

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Besides...it's just a forum...we all lead lives outside of this community.

 

Amen.

 

Like many other people I often take postings on a web board too seriously. They are just words on a screen.

 

A hypnotist I was talking to once told me that people go in and out of hypnosis every day every time they read a book, watch television, or watch a movie. None of those stories are real, yet the well produced ones can illicit real emotions. I can remember reading "Lady Of The Camilla's" and being so upset when she died at the end that I had to take a brisk walk.

 

I'm wondering since web boards combine reading, bright lights, and being "by yourself" if it has a slightly hypnotic effect as well and that explains why people get bent of shape over something that has little to do with the important things in their lives.

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I'm not aware of a single example of Rob ever having a disagreement with someone and actually trying to reason with the person.

 

Some people are of the opinion that it is more tactful to carry on disagreements in private. Maybe Rob is one of them.

 

 

And for someone to get to 10,000 posts and then without any actual incident suddenly get banned is simply fucked.

 

I know of at least one public instance when vp caused a new member who would have been a valuable addition to VBB to leave. It is possible that the other people who he caused to leave didn't think bickering with someone in public would produce anything worthwhile for them.

 

And Astrocat is a wonderful person. Her treatment here has been horrible.

 

She may be. A person's messages on a web forum are just one tiny aspect of who they are. I noticed that right before she left she was posting nasty message about the way Rob was running things and was posting insults about one of the mods.

 

If someone did that on one of my forums I would have ended their account.

 

That is like going to someone's home after being invited to a party, discovering you don't like the way it is being run and then bitching to everyone how you don't like the way the host is doing things.

 

 

There are a lot of meat eaters who are looking for any way possible to be critical of vegans. The way this forum is being run could potentially give them lots of ammunition. Posts like that of DV, Zack, etc make vegans look like hypocrites or even worse, people who care about animals more than people. But such behavior is exactly the same on endless ugly forums.

 

I don't understand this comment. The name of the forum is Vegan Body Building. It is about exercise and nutrition. DV is one of the few people who rarely posts off topic and most of her posts are solid information.

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Hey Rob;

 

I've run several mailing lists. I know how stressful it can be when it seems like you are getting many messages expressing dissatisfaction.

 

In my experience less than 5% of the regular readers ever post at all. Out of 200 something people on a list, there may be about 6-7 regular posters.

 

Anytime I have had to do something drastic to maintain the list, I've gotten complaints from a few people. I will always get praise for doing it too, often more praise then complaints. In unrelated situations I will often get compliments on the results. A well run, informative and pleasant to use list.

 

The people who scream are frequently are not in the majority opinion.

 

I've found the best way to admin is to allow people a lot of freedom, even when they are being negative. I don't step in until that negativity starts to really stink, and many people are complaining to me, insisting that I do something. As a result, when I step in I have a lot of support and I get praise for doing what I do ( often offline ).

 

It seems like have the good judgment and you are already doing things that way. That says a lot of good things about you. Many people who are smart enough to see this don't have the strength of character to admin their forums that way.

 

I think you are doing a great job and I love using this forum as a result.

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I hope someone starts a forum called whiningvegans.com. It will be one of the busiest boards on the 'net.

 

him and zack always get right to the point.

 

Every vegan web board I have read comes to a pissing contest like this one eventually. Not everyone one of those people can be a fool. A person's messages on a web board is just one of many, many aspects of who they are. I don't see any point in mocking anyone who rightfully or wrongfully left.

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I am unhappy with the decisions to ban people. I understood Potter, since he had repeated warnings that he was being too abrasive, but I don't feel banning Astrocat was appropriate. It was Robert's decision and as such I will stand by it and not try to rile anything up over it. The decision has been made, it is over, time to move on.

I'm not aware of a single example of Rob ever having a disagreement with someone and actually trying to reason with the person. Can you point to even one single example of that happening on this board? From what I can tell, to actually engage anyone who disagrees with him would be "not being positive".

 

As such I have zero confidence that Rob really engaged Potter by pm in any meaningful way.

 

And for someone to get to 10,000 posts and then without any actual incident suddenly get banned is simply fucked. I have serious doubts that they're still friends and I would like to see evidence of this meeting they're supposed to have this summer. If they were still "friends" then there would not have been any reason to delete his account.

 

I am with Lean and Green on the moving on thing. Clearly, not everyone can be made happy about these recent decisions, so the only thing to do is march forward and attempt to put this behind us. This is not to say that we should from now on put a facade of happiness towards each other; it is only to say that we should try to get over this current state of affairs and continue to build a community that thrives on lively debate and can get over both minor and major disagreements without one party or another exploding in a miasma of blind emotion.

 

We need to develop some thicker skin around here, because frankly I, and I know many others, are getting sick of nearly everything exploding into a shit storm which accomplishes nothing but leaving everyone smelling at the end.

 

I love this forum. It is the first forum I came across and actually wanted to stay and contribute to conversations in because I felt it was constructive and not filled with minds who want to mute and bash each other. It is losing that flair and I am losing my patience.

 

Please be reasonable again.

You have more compassion than quite a few people here.

 

What Rob is doing is riding very frequent posters like Compassionate Girl and Potter to build his forum and even though he didn't like either he kept his disagreement to himself (because that's what he does) and waited till he thought they had attracted enough other people here, then without ever really attempting to iron out his disagreement, he "throws them under the bus". He's slowly trying to make the forum in his own bizarre advoidant personality image.

 

It's useless to talk to him because he doesn't engage anyone who disagrees with him. He doesn't suddenly become a different person by pm. And have you not noticed he never actually admits being wrong about anything?

 

He thinks he's being positive. He's not. He's one of the most negative vegans I've ever known in that he doesn't believe people can work out their differences.

 

And Astrocat is a wonderful person. Her treatment here has been horrible.

 

There are a lot of meat eaters who are looking for any way possible to be critical of vegans. The way this forum is being run could potentially give them lots of ammunition. Posts like that of DV, Zack, etc make vegans look like hypocrites or even worse, people who care about animals more than people. But such behavior is exactly the same on endless ugly forums.

 

Jay,

 

I'm not going to address your whole e-mail because I think it is quite silly and completely inaccurate. Your posts have actually worried me quite a bit because they always see a glass have empty, are full of sadness, anger, spite and other aspects that make them stand out like a huge red flag. In fact, I do care quite a bit and I've chatted with many people, including forum members in private to try to think of ways to help you feel better.

 

I think this post is one of the craziest I've read and I don't think it was very appropriate to be so inaccurate and claim to have any clue about what goes on around here after being away for two years, only to return to be negative the entire time.

 

The only point I'll address is potter. We're in touch yesterday, and this morning. He's staying at my house this summer. You really have no idea what you're talking about and there are other forums to join who don't make it a point to be positive and that may be a better fit for you. See ya.

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If they were still "friends" then there would not have been any reason to delete his account.

 

 

First think up that sentence. Really think about. I can name at least 500 reasons why I would ban my best friend from using a forum if I ran it.

 

The easiest would be if he posted child porn. He would also cease to be my friend after that.

 

Maybe on a lighter side. Perhaps, because he does have a bit of a temper, he went to far one day after getting a warning and went against the rules we all agreed to when we signed up for this forum. I would ban him, and maybe it would suck for a couple weeks, but after that he and I would still remain friends, because thats what friends are.

 

I agree with Rob above 100%.

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There are a few threads on this forum, such as this one, that do nothing positive, IMO. If someone has a question about Robert's actions then that person should email Robert instead of starting a public discussion. As some of you may know, our posts here and even our pms are being reposted on other sites. I've seen this happen with other forums in the past. A few people are unhappy with one forum so they join a new one and start blasting the old one. Nothing constructive comes from this.

 

These types of threads don't fit with the mission of this forum and may turn off potential members and/or new members. I think we've talked about this enough. Two members have been banned in the last year (out of a total of 4 since the site started). Robert had his reasons for doing so and no one has a "right" to post here. It's not like we pay a fee for joining.

 

If you don't like how things are done here then please just leave and take your negativity with you. If you have questions for Robert then please contact him privately and keep your conversation PRIVATE.

 

I am asking that Robert and or the moderators remove these threads that question the banning of members. If I were scanning this forum and thinking of joining, this would not encourage me to join. Additionally, these threads make enough current members uncomfortable enough to stop posting.

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There are a few threads on this forum, such as this one, that do nothing positive, IMO. If someone has a question about Robert's actions then that person should email Robert instead of starting a public discussion. As some of you may know, our posts here and even our pms are being reposted on other sites. I've seen this happen with other forums in the past. A few people are unhappy with one forum so they join a new one and start blasting the old one. Nothing constructive comes from this.

 

These types of threads don't fit with the mission of this forum and may turn off potential members and/or new members. I think we've talked about this enough. Two members have been banned in the last year (out of a total of 4 since the site started). Robert had his reasons for doing so and no one has a "right" to post here. It's not like we pay a fee for joining.

 

If you don't like how things are done here then please just leave and take your negativity with you. If you have questions for Robert then please contact him privately and keep your conversation PRIVATE.

 

I am asking that Robert and or the moderators remove these threads that question the banning of members. If I were scanning this forum and thinking of joining, this would not encourage me to join. Additionally, these threads make enough current members uncomfortable enough to stop posting.

Talk about brushing issues under the carpet...

 

Why does everything have to be positive?

 

Obviously there are issues why people are being removed without being told and also if fellow forum members aren't being notified i) that person x has been deleted ii) and the reasons for doing so. Enough people have posted in this and Potter's thread expressing concern over this so deleting threads and pretending everything is OK is somewhat putting one's head in the sand.

 

The whole 'if you don't like it, go' attitude is rather childish and immature too. So if people don't agree with certain aspects of the way the forum is run, they should leave completely? So someone like Flanders - a long-time member, much-liked - should go as he has misgivings over what happened to Potter? So anyone who has understandable concerns over this has too much negativity and should remove themselves from the forum? Rather odd.

 

Well others think this hasn't been talked about enough, given that others continue to post and debate and discuss this.

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