Vegans short on 3 nutritents Meat eaters short on 7

[Katabatic]

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/77/2

 

Stop with all the fluff. Dairy being unhealthy is just nonsense. Look at that profile. Tell me it's not a good source of protein, Vitamin A, Pantothenic Acid, Potassium, Selenium, Vitamin D, Riboflavin, Vitamin B12, Calcium and Phosphorus.

 

I get sick of meat eaters telling me that veganism is unhealthy, and I get sick of vegans telling me animal products are unhealthy. I don't even know why we are debating this. There is as much evidence against cows milk as there is against soy milk. That is to say, very little.

 

And I get sick of people saying milk is healthy. It is not based on solid evidence.

 

There is a lot of evidence against cow milk. There are studies you can look up that link increased cow milk consumption with increased osteoporosis. I have seen such a Harvard study. Of course there is lactose intolerance and other various problems that have been studied.

 

But that's not the main point. Milk is for babies. I'm not a baby.

[Jason]

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/77/2

 

Stop with all the fluff. Dairy being unhealthy is just nonsense. Look at that profile. Tell me it's not a good source of protein, Vitamin A, Pantothenic Acid, Potassium, Selenium, Vitamin D, Riboflavin, Vitamin B12, Calcium and Phosphorus.

 

Milk is a source of high protein.

Milk is not a source of good protein.

 

I gave up meat and dairy for my health.

Now I'm glad that the entire planet benefits from my choice.

[Marcina]

Lactase (the enzyme used to digest milk) depletes after the age of 5 in humans, because we no longer need milk. That is why 90% of adults cannot drink milk without experiencing bloating, cramps, nausea, and other such problems.

 

Honestly, why would people need to drink the milk from a cow anyways? Humans make their own milk. The world is so messed up that it's fine to put a shot of cow's milk in your coffee, but if I were to squeeze my boob and use my own milk in my coffee I would get strange looks.

Not that I'd whip it out in public or anything.. But if I did!!!

[Emmybear]

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

 

Edit: also it,s not true that meat in small quantity as a "condiment" is healthy. Just a few molecules of infected meat is enough to kill a human. Just one infected mad cow's brain is enough to kill 300 000 humans. Just one bite of meat and you could swallow the flesh-eating bacteria. There's even some vegeterians that got infected by prions and died of the human mad cow disease just because there was microscopic traces of meat in some product. Alzheimer and Parkinson are just two amongst many deseases resulting of small (or large) consumption of meat by slow infection of very small doses of prions over a long period of time.

 

 

What was the product they ate? What is a prion?

[Endy]

A prion is an infectious agent comprised only of proteins, unlike bacteria and viruses. Researchers think the culprit behind Mad Cow is a prion. The name comes from proteinaceous and infectious--the "on" is a play off virion.

 

As for the product, I haven't a clue. I'm curious too!

 

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

 

Edit: also it,s not true that meat in small quantity as a "condiment" is healthy. Just a few molecules of infected meat is enough to kill a human. Just one infected mad cow's brain is enough to kill 300 000 humans. Just one bite of meat and you could swallow the flesh-eating bacteria. There's even some vegeterians that got infected by prions and died of the human mad cow disease just because there was microscopic traces of meat in some product. Alzheimer and Parkinson are just two amongst many deseases resulting of small (or large) consumption of meat by slow infection of very small doses of prions over a long period of time.

 

 

What was the product they ate? What is a prion?

[Endy]

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

Yup, looks like it pays to read the label more carefully.

[Im Your Man]

Emmybear wrote : What was the product they ate? What is a prion?

 

http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow.cfm#Books

http://www.rense.com/general66/amdm.htm

http://www.drgreger.org/talks/#nutrition

http://www.colmkelleher.com/

Also daniele starenkyj wrote an amzing book about this but I think it,s only avaible in French.

 

A prion is a deformed protein, altered, maligne protein, call it whatever you want, caused by cannibalism. Humans started to feed their bovines with all kind of stuff such as bone flour and blood flour, so containing some crushed animals collected on roads, or all the euthanized cats and dogs, etc; but also the cows and other animals in farms that die of all kind of deseases. So when cows eat cows, it modifies the DNA of the proteins (those sick proteins are called prions and are almost indestructible, no matter if we try to burry it or burn it into ashes, it's still active and can kill if eaten) and their brain become like swiss cheese full of holes, that's mad cow desease. This desease can pass to any other species (there's lots of mad sheeps, for instance), including humans.

We hear every week in the news in different countries : a mad cow detected, thousands of cows will be killed to avoid spreading... but often the killed cows goes into flour to feed living cows so it's never ending!

 

In the '70's a primitive tribe ( I think they were called the Kurus) was found in the middle of the jungle. They were always eating their own deads, all body parts. And the population of this small village kept decreasing because all those who ate human flesh were becoming mad and dying weeks after. I think 2 000 died of human mad desease in about 15-20 years, until they finally stopped cannibalism.

 

Even vegans: there can always be some traces of meat in some food products, Or you can have a surgery and they're gonna put cow's brain cells on the scars to make it heal faster. It happened in France and elsewhere many times that persons became mad and died shortly after the surgery because the cow's brain cells came from a mad cow of course.

[damdaman]

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

Damdaman... so you're talking about meat the same way you would about some poison substances and drugs... don't take too much, just a tiny small bite per week, just as a condiment like salt... lol

It's like saying : go ahead, sniff some cocaine, just once in a lifetime can't be so bad. Or just one cigarette per week.

Listen, to be able to say that a food is healthy, we should be able to eat it in larger amounts than what you say, like fruits and veggies. Otherwise we could say that tobacco is a healthy food also because it contains carbs, proteins, vitamins and minerals.

Of course milk is healthy, for a calf. But we don't care to know if meat and dairies are healthy or not, because we don't need them, and since we don't need them, I don't see why there's vegans here saying they would be healthier eating meat. If it would add something better to a diet, don,t you think adult cows would add some milk to their diet instead of just grass, and that herbivorous animals wouldn't eat meat ?

When a vegan say "If I only cared about my health I would eat meat" it's like if he would say my health is inferior on a vegan diet and eating meat would make it superior. So vegans like Mac Danzig, Tim VanHorden, or even vegeterian Bruce Lee have inferior health and athletic abilities than meat-eater athletes ?

 

First I'd like to point out that I never said that anyone would be "healthier" if they ate meat, nor did I say that "If I only cared about my health, I would eat meat."

 

What I said was that people who eat small quantities of meat, and take care to buy organic, local-type sources of meat, are not eating unhealthy.

 

To say that they are is wrong, and it makes us look like radical fanatics.

 

I do not think that such things are *sustainable* environmentally, and I do not think that it is ethical. But it is not unhealthy to do so. If we want to be taken seriously by the nutrition community we have to acknowledge that it is possible to eat healthy on a diet that contains meat. It is also possible to eat healthy on a diet that does not contain meat. In fact, it's not only healthy, but it's also more environmentally sustainable and doesn't involve killing innocent creatures. But on the issue of health, a small amount of chicken or fish 2 - 3 times a week is not a health concern. It's just not. If you insist that it is, you will not be taken seriously by people who know nutrition.

 

I don't think you should put words into my mouth or act like I think vegan athletes are inferior because they don't eat meat. A) I'm a vegan athlete myself and I perform better than my meat-eating peers in many ways, B) I never said that you need meat to be healthy, in fact, I *actually* said the opposite if you go and read my post.

 

Somehow you've twisted what I said (that eating chicken/fish a couple times a week does not make you unhealthy) into "meat-eaters are superior athletes and you can't possibly be healthy on a vegan diet compared to on a omnivorous diet." Honestly I don't appreciate that. I've been vegan since 2001 and I've *never* said that a vegan diet is inadequate in any way.

 

There's a huge difference between acknowledging the reality that some diets that contain small quantities of meat are not unhealthy diets and saying that vegan diets are inferior.

[ChaserHUN]

If someone want to get dairy in their diet I think goat-dairy products would be the good choice, goat milk is a more similar to human breast milk, so it's better than cow milk, but Arnold Schwarzenegger said that milk is for babies, and he is not a vegan or even a vegetarian, and yeah, there's gelatin in multivitamin, but I don't take multivitamin supplements no more, I studied lot of nutrition and I get everything trough my diet

Tim VanOrden on supplement use

[Im Your Man]

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

Damdaman... so you're talking about meat the same way you would about some poison substances and drugs... don't take too much, just a tiny small bite per week, just as a condiment like salt... lol

It's like saying : go ahead, sniff some cocaine, just once in a lifetime can't be so bad. Or just one cigarette per week.

Listen, to be able to say that a food is healthy, we should be able to eat it in larger amounts than what you say, like fruits and veggies. Otherwise we could say that tobacco is a healthy food also because it contains carbs, proteins, vitamins and minerals.

Of course milk is healthy, for a calf. But we don't care to know if meat and dairies are healthy or not, because we don't need them, and since we don't need them, I don't see why there's vegans here saying they would be healthier eating meat. If it would add something better to a diet, don,t you think adult cows would add some milk to their diet instead of just grass, and that herbivorous animals wouldn't eat meat ?

When a vegan say "If I only cared about my health I would eat meat" it's like if he would say my health is inferior on a vegan diet and eating meat would make it superior. So vegans like Mac Danzig, Tim VanHorden, or even vegeterian Bruce Lee have inferior health and athletic abilities than meat-eater athletes ?

 

First I'd like to point out that I never said that anyone would be "healthier" if they ate meat, nor did I say that "If I only cared about my health, I would eat meat."

 

And I never said you did. Did I quote you for saying this? No. Fallen Horse did say this. You interpret my whole post as adressed only to you just because I started my post by quoting you. I must say I also started my post by saying your name, because the first sentences were especially to you, then perhaps I should have written : "next paragraphs: to everybody". I must admit it wasn't very clear and bit confusing.

 

What I said was that people who eat small quantities of meat, and take care to buy organic, local-type sources of meat, are not eating unhealthy.

 

Yes, eating unhealthy compared to a vegan. But not eating unhealthy compared to the average American that eats all-dressed pizza each night.

I never said that a person who eat meat cannot be healthy. I said meat is not a healthy food. A meat-eater can be healthy, thanks to the vegan foods he eats, and still be healthy. But healthy compared to what? To an obese, to a fit vegan, etc? There's many levels of healthyness and the fact of eating meat won't raise the health factor up, in fact it's gonna decrease it, regarding to the quantity eaten, while it,s still possible to be a "healthy person" with some meat.

But watch a person who eat only meat, and another person who eat only fruits and veggies (such as Tim VanHorden), and tell me who's healthier? There you go: you get the answer of which food is healthier.

[Im Your Man]

A prion is an infectious agent comprised only of proteins, unlike bacteria and viruses. Researchers think the culprit behind Mad Cow is a prion. The name comes from proteinaceous and infectious--the "on" is a play off virion.

 

As for the product, I haven't a clue. I'm curious too!

 

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

 

The product was in fact gelatin in pills on in yogourt I don't remember. It was the case of a 15 years old vegeterian girl that was vegeterian since birth. But gelatin isn't vegeterian, it's like eating meat. That was a story that happened many years ago and there's others like that, which I've read in the book by Daniele Starenkyj.

More recently, a small boy and his dog died after the boy feeded his pet with the dog food. He boy touched by accident the dog food, which was infected with prions, and then put his fingers to his mouth later.

 

Gelatin is made of cartilage, bone marrow, fat, etc. All parts that have the highest risk of containing prions.

The prions are condensed in fat, bones and espescially neural tissue. The organs with highest risks are : brain, eyes, sexual organs, throat, guts, snout, spinal cord, spinal bone, etc... 95% of prions would be in those, while less than 5% of prions would be in lean mass, muscles.

 

But to die of human mad cow desease is very rare, I think there have been only about 300 cases around the planet at this time and it's 1 out of 1 million. This is direct exposure, causing same symptoms than mad cow and dying in less than two weeks.

But slow infection isn't rare at all : so many people die of alzheimer and parkinson, and it's holes in the brain just like in brains of mad cows. http://www.rense.com/general66/amdm.htm

Of course some get thoses deseases beacuse of heredity genes, but most people got it from habits like eating hot-dogs and hamburgers.

 

It needs direct exposure to prions (eating a microscopic dose can be enough), it's rare because as soon as a cow or another animal show signs of infection, they kill it and kill the flock by preventive measures. They can do things like burning, burrying and spray chemicals and try everything they can to avoid an epidemy because if this happens (thousands and thousands of people dying) it could mean the end of the meat industry business. If a mad cow dies and the body is not taken somewhere safer, the dead body goes into the dirt, and the prions stay active for 300 000 years or so, even high radiation cannot destroy prions. So it can go in fruits, veggies growing on that ground. There's a woman and her son that died just because 2 km away a farm was infected with prions : the wind spread the prions to the house.

[veganmaster]

This is the exact kind of correlational study that should be soundly ignored by all. The research is extremely clear when you ignore the B.S. correlational, theoretical studies and focus on the big picture. The science robustly supports some indisputable facts:

#1. Humans are biological herbivores, designed via millions of years of evolution to process plant foods. It's crazy that even vegans are ignorant of this basic biological FACT, but propaganda works. For example, carnis and omnis have short intenstinal tracks maybe 2-6 times their body length, while humans match up with herbivores since we have long intestines 11 times bodylength. Meat needs to be excreted quickly, while plant foods must be kept longer to extract and the vitamins and minerals, etc. Numerous other examples abound, check these links to explore the surprising truth (ONLY HERBIVORES have Seminal Vesicles, for example,):

Dr. McDougall article (check his book "Digestive Tune-Up" for more in depth):

http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/030700pumeatinthehumandiet.htm

 

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html - CHECK OUT THE CHART halfway down!

 

It is actually pretty amazing that so many people are brainwashed to think humans are biological omnivores, considering most would admit we are cousins to chimps, gorillas, and other herbivorous primates. I find it frustrating that the "hunter/gatherer," Weston Price/Cave Man Diet nonsense is so successful. People don't seem to realize that what groups of humans did in the recent past has absolutely ZERO bearing on the BEST fuel for the human body, or on how the body is designed. Humans, like any creature, will consume whatever energy sources are available (Ex: eskimos and others have lived on high-meat diets - and despite getting 2500mg Calcium a day, they have horrible osteoporosis, because the high ratio of sulfuric amino acids in meat must be buffered by calcium from the bones). My point is, it is short-sighted to base you nutrition habits on something other than biology - you can feed an alligator broccoli all you want, but it will not change the fact that its carnivorous biology is better fueled by meat. And humans can eat all the chicken and fish and milk they want (and get chronic disease in the process) - but it does not change the FACT that the human body excels on plant foods for fuel, and EVERY time people eat a diet containing significant animal foods, they are using "dirty fuel" for the human machine - yes it supplies energy and a few nutrients, but it comes with an acid burden, cholesterol, saturated fats, and many other chemicals which the human body is NOT perfectly adapted to process. The scientific evidence is has established the FACT that animal products cause chronic disease in humans, even at fairly low levels of consumption (China Study showed this well). If you only look at the evidence, you must reach the conclusion that the only thing to be debated is whether the optimal human diet should be 95% vegan or 100% - but either way informed opinions must accept what biological science & nutritional science both reveal: humans are herbivorous primates, and are specifically adpapted to processing plants for energy. Just as your cat can process the grains present in cat food, people can process animal foods, but that doesn't change the underlying biology of either the cat or the human.

 

#2

One of the other major misconceptions IMO is thinking that chronic disease is caused by DEFICIENCY of nutrients/genes. The truth is, starvation is almost always what causes actual deficiency diseases (and ALL of these "scary" deficiency diseases, including pernicious anemia from lack of B12, are all extremely rare compared to animal food caused disease). Artery disease, cancer, diabetes - basically all chronic diseases are from animal-food OVERNUTRITION not undernutrition of any kind. The body is constantly healing, but if you eat animal foods with every meal it cannot overcome that rate of waste breakdown, so problems slowly build up - the arteries become lined with plaque, gallstones form, cancer growth is supported, autoimmune diseases begin, etc.etc. It is such a pathetic joke when vegans are hassled about extremely rare possibilities of deficiency, while most of the meat-eaters doing the attacking know relatives who've died from their diets, or in fact they are on prescription drugs themselves due to their own diets. Artery disease and cancer are the biggest killers - in 1988 Dean Ornish published the pioneering studies showing reversal of artery disease via near vegan diet. In 2005 Ornish published a study showing a reversal of early prostate cancer via a low fat vegan diet - every single vegan eater got better PSA wise, while many in the control group got worse and had Chemo. If these results were from a little red pill, every single person in the country would know about it - but because it requires change and effort, and because it completely eliminates the gravy train of drugs/surgery that is the backbone of "modern" medicine, it is buried and propagandized.

 

The human body, when fed enough plant food to meet energy needs, even from just one good source like potatoes or wheat, etc., not only survives but thrives. The fact that peasants thrive of simple plant food was known by royalty hundreds of years ago - thus their toast to each other to have "the health of a peasant." Their health was terrible, because they of course ate a lot of dairy and meat - they were the early Americans . If you eat a vegan diet, I don't see the justification for getting freaked out about eating conventional produce or toxins from plastic or worrying about nutrients - just by being vegan and satisfying your appetite you are giving your body the right fuel, and plenty of room to heal, which the body does very well (of course as everyone here knows, exercise is the other determining factor). Eating high on the food chain has consequences for those organisms evolutionarily adapted to processing plant foods, and these consequences become more and more severe as the damage progresses, one bite of animal food at a time.

Edited June 24, 2008 by veganmaster

[Emmybear]

It needs direct exposure to prions (eating a microscopic dose can be enough), it's rare because as soon as a cow or another animal show signs of infection, they kill it and kill the flock by preventive measures. They can do things like burning, burrying and spray chemicals and try everything they can to avoid an epidemy because if this happens (thousands and thousands of people dying) it could mean the end of the meat industry business. If a mad cow dies and the body is not taken somewhere safer, the dead body goes into the dirt, and the prions stay active for 300 000 years or so, even high radiation cannot destroy prions. So it can go in fruits, veggies growing on that ground. There's a woman and her son that died just because 2 km away a farm was infected with prions : the wind spread the prions to the house.

 

Thank you for making me even more paranoid Even my vegetables are not safe....I'm telling this story to anyone I see picking up a can of jello.

[Emmybear]

This is the exact kind of correlational study that should be soundly ignored by all. The research is extremely clear when you ignore the B.S. correlational, theoretical studies and focus on the big picture. The science robustly supports some indisputable facts:

#1. Humans are biological herbivores, designed via millions of years of evolution to process plant foods. It's crazy that even vegans are ignorant of this basic biological FACT, but propaganda works. For example, carnis and omnis have short intenstinal tracks maybe 2-6 times their body length, while humans match up with herbivores since we have long intestines 11 times bodylength. Meat needs to be excreted quickly, while plant foods must be kept longer to extract and the vitamins and minerals, etc. Numerous other examples abound, check these links to explore the surprising truth (ONLY HERBIVORES have Seminal Vesicles, for example,):

 

 

Did not know that....I knew about the long digestive tract and the fact that we are obviously closer to apes......good to know.

 

I was chastising my cousin for killing a deer and my aunt said to me " If you have eye teeth you are a carnivore"

 

I came back at her with the flat teeth long digestive tract closer to apes argument. She is still convinced humans are carnivorous...and she's a teacher! It's sad

[veganmaster]

Did not know that....I knew about the long digestive tract and the fact that we are obviously closer to apes......good to know.

 

I was chastising my cousin for killing a deer and my aunt said to me " If you have eye teeth you are a carnivore"

 

I came back at her with the flat teeth long digestive tract closer to apes argument. She is still convinced humans are carnivorous...and she's a teacher! It's sad

 

Well, so many people are not taught critical thinking skills, or they simply do not have the capacity for independent though, so they just grab onto whatever the most popular memes are and always defend the status quo (no thought required, just regurgitation). To be fair, industry has spent billions and billions on the propaganda, and people want to believe it anyway because they don't want to know the truth, that YES, what you are feeding your family is also what's killing your family and causing suffering. They'd rather accept the myth that you can't cure yourself of diseases - cuz my Dr. would tell me if he knew that, right? Yes, if he doesn't mind making a lot less money - because once you are educated to the truth, you realize that what you eat and how well you exercise determine human health - and you only really need to visit the emergency room for acute trauma. Doctors are worshipped, and yet they are only knowledgeable about 2 things: pills and surgery/technology - they are nearly all grossly ignorant of basic nutrition, which by any sane measure, is the KEY TO HEALTH. But as Dr. McDougall himself has noted, it's a lot harder to make money doing it the right way, by actually educating people on vegan nutrition. That reminds me of his first patients in hawaii - business was hard, precisely because it only took a few visits before the patient's had no NEED of a Dr! So they had monthly vegan potlucks so the "patients" could get to see their "doctor" - and that is the true place for a doctor - teaching people to heal themselves.

 

Be sure to check the chart about halfway down for a quick comparison of carnivorous & herbivorous traits, and how humans stack up:

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

[Im Your Man]

Amazing post VeganMaster!

 

Edit: (your long post)

[ChaserHUN]

This is the exact kind of correlational study that should be soundly ignored by all. The research is extremely clear when you ignore the B.S. correlational, theoretical studies and focus on the big picture. The science robustly supports some indisputable facts:

#1. Humans are biological herbivores, designed via millions of years of evolution to process plant foods. It's crazy that even vegans are ignorant of this basic biological FACT, but propaganda works. For example, carnis and omnis have short intenstinal tracks maybe 2-6 times their body length, while humans match up with herbivores since we have long intestines 11 times bodylength. Meat needs to be excreted quickly, while plant foods must be kept longer to extract and the vitamins and minerals, etc. Numerous other examples abound, check these links to explore the surprising truth (ONLY HERBIVORES have Seminal Vesicles, for example,):

 

 

Did not know that....I knew about the long digestive tract and the fact that we are obviously closer to apes......good to know.

 

I was chastising my cousin for killing a deer and my aunt said to me " If you have eye teeth you are a carnivore"

 

I came back at her with the flat teeth long digestive tract closer to apes argument. She is still convinced humans are carnivorous...and she's a teacher! It's sad

 

we have eye teeth, but it's little, and we couldn't catch and kill any animal with our bare hands

[Marcina]

This is the exact kind of correlational study that should be soundly ignored by all. The research is extremely clear when you ignore the B.S. correlational, theoretical studies and focus on the big picture. The science robustly supports some indisputable facts:

#1. Humans are biological herbivores, designed via millions of years of evolution to process plant foods. It's crazy that even vegans are ignorant of this basic biological FACT, but propaganda works. For example, carnis and omnis have short intenstinal tracks maybe 2-6 times their body length, while humans match up with herbivores since we have long intestines 11 times bodylength. Meat needs to be excreted quickly, while plant foods must be kept longer to extract and the vitamins and minerals, etc. Numerous other examples abound, check these links to explore the surprising truth (ONLY HERBIVORES have Seminal Vesicles, for example,):

 

 

Did not know that....I knew about the long digestive tract and the fact that we are obviously closer to apes......good to know.

 

I was chastising my cousin for killing a deer and my aunt said to me " If you have eye teeth you are a carnivore"

 

I came back at her with the flat teeth long digestive tract closer to apes argument. She is still convinced humans are carnivorous...and she's a teacher! It's sad

 

 

My boyfriend supports the humans are omnivores theory. This is because he's a dental professional and talks about the "eye teeth" ( but he says cuspids lol) and goes on about that.. The cuspids are meant to grip and tear food, but honestly.. Our cuspids are really pathetic in development compared to dogs and bears.. Which are also omnivores.

However, he himself does not eat much meat. I don't know if I'll ever get him to be a vegetarian though. At home with me, he eats vegan. He chooses to do that and that helps the environment and his health more than what most people do so I'm happy with that.

[Emmybear]

 

 

My boyfriend supports the humans are omnivores theory. This is because he's a dental professional and talks about the "eye teeth" ( but he says cuspids lol) and goes on about that.. The cuspids are meant to grip and tear food, but honestly.. Our cuspids are really patheshoutic in development compared to dogs and bears.. Which are also omnivores.

However, he himself does not eat much meat. I don't know if I'll ever get him to be a vegetarian though. At home with me, he eats vegan. He chooses to do that and that helps the environment and his health more than what most people do so I'm happy with that.

 

 

Marcina you should read the article....it pretty much screws up that whole "teeth theory" but I wouldn't use the info to get into an argument about it just for your edification. Why start fights?

[Fallen_Horse]

B12

 

 

End thread.

[Im Your Man]

yeah we definitely don't have a predator body, we look pretty pathetic in front of wolves and tigers. We have a innofensive body not made to hunt. Our hands don't have claws or anything. Unless you train your body like Bruce Lee, you can't do much damage with bare hands. Our hands are perfectly designed to pick fruits in trees though, like monkeys.

[offense74]

B12

 

 

End thread.

Right.

Have you ever seen the water in the rivers where humans originated (ie Africa)? Not so much chlorine and bottled spring water, I'll tell you that.

It's a bacteria infested poop pool with mixed dead organism. B12 is not really a problem.

 

Continue thread.

Edited June 25, 2008 by offense74

[veganmaster]

yeah we definitely don't have a predator body, we look pretty pathetic in front of wolves and tigers. We have a innofensive body not made to hunt. Our hands don't have claws or anything. Unless you train your body like Bruce Lee, you can't do much damage with bare hands. Our hands are perfectly designed to pick fruits in trees though, like monkeys.

 

Yes, it's amazing that the obvious can be denied so easily via popular meme regurgitation - people who are so misinformed to think humans are carnivores should be forced to prove it by eating live prey - like all other blood- and guts-loving carnivores on the planet (kidding, of course). But sheeple believe whatever memes are most popular inside their own brains, and dismiss all evidence to the contrary. So you get people who think our tiny, vestigial canine teeth somehow proves we are carnivores, despite the fact that dozens of other physical characteristics match up perfectly with other herbivores, and a mountain of scientific evidence implicating animal foods in chronic disease, and the itty bitty fact that we are genetically 99+% identical to chimps! But I suppose that is just god testing our "faith" LOL. Cognitive dissonance defines us.

Edited June 25, 2008 by veganmaster

[Emmybear]

I just read an article about b12...to make a long story short it said (the thread is vitamin b12)

 

A...most deficiencies are caused by innadequate absorption

b. we make our own b-12

c. anything that contains b complex has b-12(not just meat...the b12 was made in the bodies of animals)

d. meat eaters become defficient too

e. the rda is set much higher than we actually need due to the fact alot of b12 gets destroyed by the standard american diet and antibiotic use

f. Low blood levels can mean healthy cells are utilizing the b12 not that you are defficient

 

there goes the b12 argument right out the window (if true)

 

how do herbivores get b12...they must be able to synthesize it....and we have that ability too...I think I agree with the stance that our lifestyle can destroy the vitamin...but I have to do more research.

[beforewisdom]

What article is that?

 

I only ask because it contradicts the one written by Jack Norris RD, of veganoutreach on a very important point. Vitamin B-12 is produced in the lower intestines in humans, but that is past the point when human beings can use it. In other words it doesn't do us any good and we need to get it from somewhere.