Vitamin B12 Deficiency...

[TigreBella]

I just got done reading this article:

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/b12issue.html

 

I stumbled upon it in my research. I have to say, it really informed me more about the vitamin B12. I just thought I'd share this article with everyone and ask what you all think of it. Has anyone here ever had a vitamin B12 deficiency since being a Vegan? I know I used to hear all the time that Vegetarians and Vegans get vitamin B12 deficiency, and I think that's one of the reasons my husband and I didn't look too far into Veganism in the past. But recently, through much research, I'm learning more about it and how it doesn't affect as many Vegetarians and Vegans as they make it seem.

[offense74]

Many raw-foodists have some kind of issue with taking b12. I for one never figured out why.

Here's the science.

[Emmybear]

Cool

[Lean and Green]

I also have seen that the vast majority of raw foodists have b12 deficiencies after their 6 year stores are depleted. BUT i have also know of some people personally who have gotten away without supplementation and have been raw for over 25 years. But they are extreme examples. I don't like the odds.

 

Personally I have never supplemented with b12 and didn't believe in synthetic supplementation but I have been doing my homework on this topic as it is very important not to take lightly.

 

I read the section on Gabriel Cousens (a major pioneer in the raw foods movement) book Spiritual Nutrition that talks about b12 supplementation and he strongly recommends it for all vegans and raw/live foodists.

 

I HIGHLY respect and value his opinion and am thinking twice right now and may start supplementing.

 

After reading the horrible and tragic story of Johnny Lovewisdom a fruitarian who got so weak from b12 deficiency that he couldn't even stand up or walk and the PERMANENT nerve damage that can occur, I am getting scared and coming to my senses.

 

I haven't been vegan long enough to deplete stores but i'm gojng to get tested soon anyway.

 

I was recommended a brand called 'Innate' as being a raw whole foods source. Anyone heard of it, know where to find it?

[beforewisdom]

I also have seen that the vast majority of raw foodists have b12 deficiencies after their 6 year stores are depleted. BUT i have also know of some people personally who have gotten away without supplementation and have been raw for over 25 years. But they are extreme examples. I don't like the odds.

 

A number of packaged foods are fortified with *some* ( not enough for *good* health ) vitamin b-12. Over 25 years it is hard to account for what someone actually ate. He may have eaten something from a store that had it, cheated on being raw, or took some supplement that had it in it.

[veganmama]

I have been a vegetarian for 14 years and I supplement w/ b12 because I think it makes me feel better... more energy, less stress.

 

The brand I use is Pure Advantage... it is around 10 bucks for a spray bottle, one spray (there are 175 sprays per bottle) delivers 8,333% dv B12. It is Vegan certified and the B12 is in the Methylcobalamin form... which I have read is most bio-available form of B12.

[cubby2112]

I also have seen that the vast majority of raw foodists have b12 deficiencies after their 6 year stores are depleted. BUT i have also know of some people personally who have gotten away without supplementation and have been raw for over 25 years. But they are extreme examples. I don't like the odds.

 

A number of packaged foods are fortified with *some* ( not enough for *good* health ) vitamin b-12. Over 25 years it is hard to account for what someone actually ate. He may have eaten something from a store that had it, cheated on being raw, or took some supplement that had it in it.

 

I have heard that some rare people have an adequate amount of flora placed in early enough in their digestive tract that they can absorb the b-12 that is produced. I don't know if that is true, but it can possibly account for some of these cases.

[beforewisdom]

It isn't true.

 

B-12 is produced in the human body, but not in a location where it can be absorbed. It can be stored for several years and it takes several more years after that for symptoms ( some serious and irreversible ) to appear.

[TigreBella]

"A great scandal occured with the Windish family when Johnny Lovewisdom was first presented as the Father of the New Age nationwide in Hearst newspapers in the United States in the early 1940's, as being literally the father of a child. When Johnny completely rejected this plan the nationwide newspaper ran the next article as "Disaster in Paradise" all because Johnny did not believe in the Eugenics through physical birth plan.

 

This was followed by publication on the internet of the "Saint or Madman" article claiming he was emotionally unbalanced and beat his female companion and damaged her teeth which was a complete fabrication based on hearsay but nontheless it was published worldwide on the net. An author of the article has retracted it from the internet and rewrote it without the false claims.

 

Another article states Dr. Lovewisdom suffered from vitamin B-12 deficiency giving symptoms of anxiety, chronic fatigue and depression the reason given was a hard core fruitarian diet for which the fruitarian community failed miserable.

 

These are conjectures as to why it did not thrive when in reality it was a toxic body which prevented the fruit diet supplemented with starchless leafy greens from working. If one eats from childhood for 17 or more years a normal omnivorous diet the body is deeply saturated with toxic matter and it will take many years to remove this. It doesn't happen doing one long fast but it must be done gradually and systematically using a transition diet.

 

B-12 is not the cause of failure on a strict mucusless fruit diet (supplemented with starchless vegetables, e.g. celery, spinach, lettuce), it is a mucus and toxin congested body. Put pure clean fruit in a toxic body and the toxins will be stirred up causing cleansing reactions of anxiety, fatigue and depression.

 

But vary the rate of elimination by the diet and short fasts and you can slowly detoxify without suffering excessive symptoms. We must ask ourselves is it natural in the long run to depend on expensive supplements of vitamin B-12 and other trace nutrients? How did people survive for millenniums originally in the natural life? In the short term a food grown vitamin supplement couldn't hurt during the transition to help it detoxify and adapt to producing its own vitamins."

 

http://www.paradisian.net/Biography.htm

 

 

 

This is more believable to me. Honestly, what did our early ancestors do for B12 without vitamin supplements? I really think we get enough of it naturally to not need supplements. Now as far toxic as our bodies have now come, and for us to make a transition back to our more natural lifestyles, yes I can understand using vitamin supplements. But I truely believe most talk of vitamin deficiencies is just put out by the media to scare us into coughing up money for vitamin supplements and such.

[flanders77]

It isn't true.

 

B-12 is produced in the human body, but not in a location where it can be absorbed. It can be stored for several years and it takes several more years after that for symptoms ( some serious and irreversible ) to appear.

Mmmmmmh...

For the "rare" cases of longterm vegans or raw vegans whi did not supplement there are different explanations. For instance:

1st: they have bacterias in they ileum.

2nd: they live in areas of the world where the water or food is "contaminated" with b12-producing bacteria.

3rd: they eat their feces.

4th: they are miracles and do not develop symptoms of b12-deficiency

Edited July 4, 2008 by flanders77

[Lean and Green]

oooooh flanders i've heard of all these too. They did a test where they grew the fruits and veggies in a composted soil fertilized with the studies human feces and they were ok as well as the plants absorbed it.

 

Anyone know better about that innate supplement? Is it not wholefood and raw? Bw, fortified would be synthetic, i'd want to stay away from stuff like that when possible. If it came to my health then i would take a pill with synthetic b complex but if there is a wholefood raw version, i'd be much happier.

 

the b-12 contamination in the water, never thought of that!

[flanders77]

oooooh flanders i've heard of all these too. They did a test where they grew the fruits and veggies in a composted soil fertilized with the studies human feces and they were ok as well as the plants absorbed it.

Can you give me a link to that study?

If it came to my health then i would take a pill with synthetic b complex but if there is a wholefood raw version, i'd be much happier.

In Germany you can buy B12 over the counter which is produced by bacterial fermentation of molasses. It is vegan and non-synthetic as far as I can see.

the b-12 contamination in the water, never thought of that!

This is how they explain the fact that that parts of the indian population is almost 100% vegan for many generations and have no b12-deficiency.

I think C.T. Campbell is correct when saying b12-deficiency is not a problem of the vegan diet per se but a problem of civilisation and the resulting hygiene, depleted soils and lack of cobalt in the soils.

[Lean and Green]

oooooh flanders i've heard of all these too. They did a test where they grew the fruits and veggies in a composted soil fertilized with the studies human feces and they were ok as well as the plants absorbed it.

Can you give me a link to that study?

 

You know, I will ask my friend Donna where she got this information from as I would like to read up on it. She talked somewhat about it and I read something here. I think I may have worded it wrong. Here is an excerpt from 'Spiritual Nutrition' written by Gabriel Cousens

 

'Some people have argued that a lot of species of lower mammals do not

need B-12. The reason why this is true is that a lot of species that are

primarily vegetarian animals eat their feces. Human research also has

shown if you eat your feces, you will get enough B-12. Dr. Herbert

sponsored research in England where vegan volunteers with a

documented B-12 deficiency were fed B-12 extractions made from their

own feces. It cured their B-12 deficiency. So, there is a natural vegan

way to do it. It may not be the most tasteful way, however.' you can find his chapter on this website: B 12

 

It seems like if you can find out about his study with this reference when you have some time do research and go through it:

1 Herbert, V. Recommended dietary intakes (RDI) of vitamin B12 in humans. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 45:671º678, 1987.

 

If it came to my health then i would take a pill with synthetic b complex but if there is a wholefood raw version, i'd be much happier.

In Germany you can buy B12 over the counter which is produced by bacterial fermentation of molasses. It is vegan and non-synthetic as far as I can see.

 

I bet I could find something similar to this if I do a little looking around or perhasp someone knows of a us version. Gabriel was recommending one called 'Nano0B complex' which he said is live and wholefood. Only problem is that I dodn't see it on his site and didn't see it for sale when I googled it although it was talked about on many sites. Any ideas anyone??

 

I think C.T. Campbell is correct when saying b12-deficiency is not a problem of the vegan diet per se but a problem of civilisation and the resulting hygiene, depleted soils and lack of cobalt in the soils.

 

I agree on this one too.

[Lean and Green]

found it!

This product nourishes the cell’s DNA, delivering a biophotonic “body of light” only found in “once-living source” nutrients. Synthetic B vitamins - and all synthetics for that matter - actually accelerate aging and degradation of the cell’s DNA.

 

Key Benefits

• The world’s first natural-source B vitamins made from probiotic fermentation

• International patent-pending technology

• Highly active, “living” B vitamins in their end-chain forms which deliver high cellular resonance Other B vitamin products are typically synthetic with no cellular resonance

• Maximum stress support, anti-aging, instantaneous energy boost, brain rejuvenation, heart health and mood balance

• Research suggests natural sources of B vitamins are safest and most effective, especially in long term use

 

* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent disease.

 

96 servings, suggested to be taken 1-2 times a day. $80.00 bucks on every website i've checked so far, ugh. Anyone know of a cheaper site for this source?

Google Search for this

 

oh yea and it's vegan.

[offense74]

 

the b-12 contamination in the water, never thought of that!

The rivers and lakes in africa (where humans originated) is a pool of life and death, just like most places on the planet except for Wal-Mart and others alike. There's plenty of b12 in nature, none at wal-mart.

[_raVen_]

There are also B-12 shots available. It's sort of faddish (at least here in L.A.) to get them for "energy." I don't need energy, but, the curious fool that I am, I've been wanting to try them

 

Here is another "whole-food" source -- "Innate Response"; not sure it's "raw," but it couldn't hurt to confirm. It claims, "The True Actives of Live Foods" "Frozen Raw at the Source."

 

And then there are patches

 

 

Lean and Green,, I've tried that B12. Not too tasty! But I would think it's okay.

 

Oh, by the way, I've mentioned this before but if you're going to have your B12 checked by a doctor or whomever, you MUST ask for an "MMA B-12 Test"; not the standard tests they do. That will not give you an accurate reading. This is advised by some doctors who know vegan and raw diets. You could be running around deficient and think your levels are a-okay because of a standard test