Being sick as a vegan..in need of help!!!!!!

[BodhiDave85]

As much of an oxymoron as this sounds, I am sick for my first time as a vegan. I first tried the natural approach but I caught a really nasty virus and it just wasnt cutting it. I didnt do much research on what medicine is vegan, not that it matters, because most of it is toxic in the first place, but I caved and pretty much took all the standard over the counter meds for runny nose, sore throat, cough. Im feeling a little bit guilty, especially since none of it is really working but mostly very unprepared.

 

I would love advice on what everyone does when they get sick beyond rest, staying warm, and drinking hot fluids.

[Karmacharger]

I'm sorry to hear you're sick. I understand how frustrating it can be to feel so awful and not want to take any "Western medicine."

 

I see a naturopath and she treats me with Chinese herbs when I'm not well. If I'm really sick and we don't catch it in time then I have to go a "doctor" and possibly take antibiotics. I have yet to find a natural cure for strep throat and that's one illness I won't mess around with....

 

I also look up home remedies... like gargling with turmeric and salt for a sore throat is a good one. Turmeric has lots of great healing properties. Depending on what ails me I will also make ginger tea. I find that helps a lot ... just not if you have a fever.

 

The other thing I do when I'm sick is to try not to eat so much... I stick to soups and fresh juices so my body can work on healing me instead of digesting.

 

I guess as we continue on our journeys of healthy eating, we end up getting sick less often.

 

When it happens, how we treat ourselves, is a pretty personal decision.

 

Don't feel guilty about taking what you took. You made the best decision you could with the information you had at the time. You seem to want to do things differently for next time and you're doing the right thing by looking for alternatives. I wish I had more advice for you...

 

Oh wait, I do, try to look at what might have brought it on in the first place. Are you getting enough rest? Is your body trying to tell you something? One of the big problems with the over the counter drugs is that they mask your symptoms.

 

Good luck and feel better soon!

[Im Your Man]

 

I would love advice on what everyone does when they get sick beyond rest, staying warm, and drinking hot fluids.

 

I don't use anything else than what you mentioned above and it always worked fine. But fluids don't need to be hot.

[BodhiDave85]

 

I would love advice on what everyone does when they get sick beyond rest, staying warm, and drinking hot fluids.

 

I don't use anything else than what you mentioned above and it always worked fine. But fluids don't need to be hot.

 

I have a hard time swallowing fluids that arent hot with a sore throat.

[BodhiDave85]

I'm sorry to hear you're sick. I understand how frustrating it can be to feel so awful and not want to take any "Western medicine."

 

I see a naturopath and she treats me with Chinese herbs when I'm not well. If I'm really sick and we don't catch it in time then I have to go a "doctor" and possibly take antibiotics. I have yet to find a natural cure for strep throat and that's one illness I won't mess around with....

 

I also look up home remedies... like gargling with turmeric and salt for a sore throat is a good one. Turmeric has lots of great healing properties. Depending on what ails me I will also make ginger tea. I find that helps a lot ... just not if you have a fever.

 

The other thing I do when I'm sick is to try not to eat so much... I stick to soups and fresh juices so my body can work on healing me instead of digesting.

 

I guess as we continue on our journeys of healthy eating, we end up getting sick less often.

 

When it happens, how we treat ourselves, is a pretty personal decision.

 

Don't feel guilty about taking what you took. You made the best decision you could with the information you had at the time. You seem to want to do things differently for next time and you're doing the right thing by looking for alternatives. I wish I had more advice for you...

 

Oh wait, I do, try to look at what might have brought it on in the first place. Are you getting enough rest? Is your body trying to tell you something? One of the big problems with the over the counter drugs is that they mask your symptoms.

 

Good luck and feel better soon!

 

I caught a bug at work, I take really good care of myself which is why this sucks. Although, i took some time off away from accupuncture, naturapathy, so know I know what I have to do when I get better. Thanks!

[Guest]

The conventional wisdom from the hygienist and raw foods vegan healing movements is that sickness is an indication from your body that it needs cleansing. Please confer LEAN AND GREEN's posts and also my posts at ACTIVE TOPICS >>>>> RAW FOODS, YEAH! and HI VEGANS!

 

A virus cannot take root in a body with a healthy immune system. While it is preferable to build up your own system with the methodologies offered in the above references, it is also possible to use various natural modalities to directly attack the virus.

 

These include various herbal remedies (echinachea, garlic golden seal) , homeopathic, ayurvedic and also hydrogen peroxide and ozone therapy. You can google these references or contact me at [email protected] for further information.

 

Also, immediately upon detection of illness, an enema and colon hydrotherpy are indicated to rid the body of putrefactive waste.

 

The most antibiotic remedies are garlic, oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract and food or medical grade hydrogen peroxide. Again, you can google these references or go to your local health food store for more information. Also, a course of treatment with probiotics will help boost the immune system and overcome internal pollutants.

 

It is best to fast on fresh raw vegetable and fruit juices at the onset.

 

It is best if the remedies that are chosen are systemic.

 

I know that this wisdom is tried and true.

ME IN INDIA - WWW.THEMERCYFUND.ORG

[BodhiDave85]

The conventional wisdom from the hygienist and raw foods vegan healing movements is that sickness is an indication from your body that it needs cleansing. Please confer LEAN AND GREEN's posts and also my posts at ACTIVE TOPICS >>>>> RAW FOODS, YEAH! and HI VEGANS!

 

A virus cannot take root in a body with a healthy immune system. While it is preferable to build up your own system with the methodologies offered in the above references, it is also possible to use various natural modalities to directly attack the virus.

 

These include various herbal remedies (echinachea, garlic golden seal) , homeopathic, ayurvedic and also hydrogen peroxide and ozone therapy. You can google these references or contact me at [email protected] for further information.

 

Also, immediately upon detection of illness, an enema and colon hydrotherpy are indicated to rid the body of putrefactive waste.

 

The most antibiotic remedies are garlic, oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract and food or medical grade hydrogen peroxide. Again, you can google these references or go to your local health food store for more information. Also, a course of treatment with probiotics will help boost the immune system and overcome internal pollutants.

 

It is best to fast on fresh raw vegetable and fruit juices at the onset.

 

It is best if the remedies that are chosen are systemic.

 

I know that this wisdom is tried and true.

 

I tried garlic and i threw up 10 minutes later, but this is probably a sign that I should consider raw. Thanks for the advice.

[Guest]

You are exactly right.

 

Review advice and references which I furnished above.

 

My own experience greatly parallels that of Lean and Green. His carefully constructed and graphically illustrated chronicles offer much fine guidance.

 

I am available for further informationa and guidance at the abovereferenced email address.

 

Get well and stay well!!!!

[medman]

A virus cannot take root in a body with a healthy immune system.

 

I seriously disagree with this statement. Disagree is probably the wrong word though, because it makes it sound like a matter of opinion. I don't want to come on too strong here, but it's really tough seeing blanket statements like that. Viruses of all sorts vary in their virulence (ability to produce/induce disease). You won't have a problem with too many rhinoviruses (common colds) if you have a healthy immune system, but there are some out there that are really virulent. There's sort of a hierarchy in the virus world, with influenza (the 'true' flu virus), and epstein-barr (the one that gives people mono) being more virulent than most rhinoviruses, and then of course you can get all the way up to HIV. Almost any person with a healthy immune system would become infected if injected with HIV. The only people with known immunities to it have a mutation in a particular leukocyte membrane transport protein that the virus uses to gain access to the cell.

[markc7]

I don't want to come on too strong here

 

You can't possibly come off to strong here, because you're absolutely right and the post you're responding to was absolutely wrong! Thanks for clearing this up.

[Guest]

I will amend my previous statement for the sake of clarification. A virus cannot propagate in a a healthy immune system. This is definitive.

 

What I have indicated previously is the result of many years of experimentation and documentation, now institutionalized. Please review my abovenoted references before you make suggestions which are not well-informed. You don't want to fall into the trap of being amongst "the blind leading the blind". Ignorance and negativity and defeatism are widespread and it does not seem wise to me to involve oneself in that.

 

I can refer you to friends whose breast tumor shrank dramatically with the use of our protocols. That virus is curable.

 

Have you studied our natural cure for HIV which is being used in certain places in Africa???????????????

 

Thank you. Be well.

[markc7]

This is ridiculous. As medman said, it's not a matter of debate or opinion. I'm sure it's pretty well established that a healthy immune system makes it easier for the body to fight off minor viruses and illnesses. But there's a hell of a difference between saying that, and saying that in a health immune system a virus can never multiply or take hold or whatever you said. I seriously hope that causal visitors to the site don't get the impression that this kind of pseudoscience is commonplace on here.

[Guest]

You have not studied the references. You are staking your claim only on the fact that you have given yourself the title "Medman" and a disparagement of what is proven that you have labelled a "pseudoscience".

 

I assure you that you are mistaken. If you let go of your ego, perhaps you will learn something.

 

 

"Sit down before a fact as a little child,

Be prepared to give up every preconceived notion

and follow humbly to whatever abysses Nature leads you,

or you will learn nothing."

Thomas H. Huxley

 

Explore and learn from the references which I have posted.

 

I understand that you have no previous awareness of or experience in these matters. If you require further references, please feel free to contact me at [email protected]

[BodhiDave85]

You have not studied the references. You are staking your claim only on the fact that you have given yourself the title "Medman" and a disparagement of what is proven that you have labelled a "pseudoscience".

 

I assure you that you are mistaken. If you let go of your ego, perhaps you will learn something.

 

 

"Sit down before a fact as a little child,

Be prepared to give up every preconceived notion

and follow humbly to whatever abysses Nature leads you,

or you will learn nothing."

Thomas H. Huxley

 

Explore and learn from the references which I have posted.

 

I understand that you have no previous awareness of these matters.

 

I completely emphasize with what your saying, but you are coming across as some new age hippy. Rather then advising people how to "rationalize" give hardcore evidence otherwise you will be massacred here!

[markc7]

You have not studied the references. You are staking your claim only on the fact that you have given yourself the title "Medman" and a disparagement of what is proven that you have labelled a "pseudoscience".

 

I assure you that you are mistaken. If you let go of your ego, perhaps you will learn something.

 

 

"Sit down before a fact as a little child,

Be prepared to give up every preconceived notion

and follow humbly to whatever abysses Nature leads you,

or you will learn nothing."

Thomas H. Huxley

 

Explore and learn from the references which I have posted.

 

I understand that you have no previous awareness of these matters.

 

OK, first, I'm sure it is evident that medman is a different person from me. :

 

Second, where do you get off saying that I "have no previous awareness of these matters"? You have never met me. You know nothing about my educational background, or about me as a person for that matter. You know nothing about my experiences in life or what I have learned or studied. Yet (with much of the negativity which you claim to distance yourself from) you quickly become judgmental and jump to a conclusion about my knowledge on this topic. Do you say this sort of thing anytime anyone disagrees with you? Do you not see how judgmental and, frankly, wrong this is?

 

Finally, my characterization of the things you have posted as pseudoscience is quite accurate and I sincerely hope that most people reading it recognize that fact. It is especially questionable that you base your beliefs on anecdotes and personal experience. If a certain approach to life has been helpful to you, then I am glad you found something that works and wish you the best with it. Just don't claim that it is scientific or use it as the basis to make claims that directly contradict established scientific evidence. What you're describing in your references is a fundamentally different epistemological approach from science, which is based on testing hypotheses derived from falsifiable theories and obtaining repeatable, generalizable results.

[Guest]

Thank you for your considerate and caring response.

 

Please review my references:

 

http://www.hippocratesinst.org

http://www.annwigmore.org

http://www.optimumhealth.org

http://www.viktoras.org

http://www.survivalinthe21stcentury.com

 

Decades of research and experimentation with proven results do not a "New Age hippie" make.

 

I am safe and well as I want you to be, and of course, well insulated from the type of slaughter that you suggested. I do understand their attitudes. That is just their own ignorance and ego and defefensiveness sabotaging themselves. It cannot harm me.

 

Please feel free to contact me should you require further references, research, knowledge and facts.

ME IN INDIA

[medman]

markc7 is indeed a separate person from me

 

I have a lot of respect for naturopathic medicine. But as someone with a bit of a background in immunology, I can safely say that, even with the healthiest of immune systems, viruses do invade, divide, and do what they do best. A clean body but dirty syringe will still lead to a hepatitis infection, for example. There's something called an "infectious load", which represents the number of virus particles (they're not cells, after all) necessary to produce disease in an organism. Depending on the immune system and the particular virus, this load can vary - with ebola, it's frighteningly low (meaning pretty much ANY contact with it ensures infection), while it's much higher for, say, a cold - so a few virus particles could make their way in to the body and never result in an illness. This varies with the rate that the virus can replicate vs how quickly the body responds, etc, etc...good health improves your odds, basically, but these mechanics hold true in all bodies - healthy or not.

Edited July 20, 2008 by medman

[Guest]

You just don't get it. That saddens me. (I have already pointed you to the defensiveness and ego that are out of control.)

 

If you reread carefully what I have written and consult the references, then you can perhaps learn.

 

Otherwise . . . . . . . it is not worth my time.

 

Fare thee well. But I do so deeply resent your interference in my trying to help those in need according to the proven helps which are available to me.

 

I can arrange for a discount on a stay for you at the Hippocrates Health Institute (http://www.hippocratesinst.org). It's founder, Dr. Ann Wigmore, previously referenced, was my friend, and more importanly, a friend of President Dwight David Eisenhower, Dr. Michael DeBakey, and Indian Prime Minister Morajai Desai. I miss her presence. Unfortunately, you did not know her.

 

I spoke this morning with the co-founder of the Institute, my personal friend and borther of many years, Viktoras Kulvinskas, as he was in transit from Arkansas to his retreat in Costa Rica. Have you studied our books. I would be pleased to send you a free copy or you can access the volumes at Amazon.com.

 

What I have written is true. While I understand your behavior, I wonder why you you prevent yourself from learning something wonderful and why you seem to be determined to block others from learning. I suggest you examine you conscience and your mind.

 

Maybe you should just come to India to plant Moringa trees with us - http://www.treesforlife.org. Or maybe you can come to take our free tour at http://www.echonet.org. Maybe then you will begin to relax and understand what you seem to be afraid of.

 

Why are you trying to block the flow of information about valuable healing to yourself and others?

[Guest]

READ FLOOD YOUR BODY WITH OXYGEN, AVAILABLE AT AMAZON.COM FOR BEST INFORMATION REGARDING PERMANENT CURE AND FREEDOM FROM VIRUSES. THIS INFORMATION HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSED BY THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND PEOPLE LIKE MEDMAN ABOVE.

 

ALSO GOOGLE OZONE AND OXYGEN THERAPY.

 

THAT IS ALL I CAN DO FOR NOW FOR MEDMAN WHO SEEMS TO THINK HIS SCIENCE IS SATISFACTORY.

 

I WOULD JUST FLUNK HIM.

[Zack]

RT please keep your raw food wackiness in the raw food forums...

[Guest]

So sorry, guys, not about my information, but about the fact that I confused Medman with Markc7 or whatever that guys name is.

 

I am sometimes up all night with my international commitments, if you will accept my excuse.

 

Markc7 should really take to heart the comments which I wrote errantly to Medman.

 

Medman, no harm meant.

[medman]

You just don't get it. That saddens me. (I have already pointed you to the defensiveness and ego that are out of control.)

 

If you reread carefully what I have written and consult the references, then you can perhaps learn.

 

Fare thee well. But I do so deeply resent your interference in my trying to help those in need according to the proven helps which are available to me.

 

What I have written is true. While I understand your behavior, I wonder why you you prevent yourself from learning something wonderful and why you seem to be determined to block others from learning. I suggest you examine you conscience and your mind...

 

 

This is not personal, and there is no ego or defensiveness involved on my part (if you were addressing me). I'm not trying to prevent people from learning something wonderful - I'm trying to prevent them from learning something wrong. There's great danger in telling anyone "do X and viruses can't invade your body" - because it will be a tragedy if a single person believes such a thing and ends up with HPV, hepatitis, HIV, or anything of the sort.

 

I have absolutely no problem with saying "do X and you will find how rarely you fall ill and how quickly you recover". But when people start bringing pseudoscience into it and making baseless statements (spend a year in an immunology lab and track the viruses you claim can't penetrate or propagate or whatnot in some patients) that I feel I have to step in in the discussion. And as a side note - if anyone claims to have proven their hypothesis through a study, they know so little about science that you really can't trust their analysis at all.

[medman]

READ FLOOD YOUR BODY WITH OXYGEN, AVAILABLE AT AMAZON.COM FOR BEST INFORMATION REGARDING PERMANENT CURE AND FREEDOM FROM VIRUSES. THIS INFORMATION HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSED BY THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND PEOPLE LIKE MEDMAN ABOVE.

 

ALSO GOOGLE OZONE AND OXYGEN THERAPY.

 

THAT IS ALL I CAN DO FOR NOW FOR MEDMAN WHO SEEMS TO THINK HIS SCIENCE IS SATISFACTORY.

 

I WOULD JUST FLUNK HIM.

 

"people like me"? I'm a left-wing, vegan, nutrition-promoting, macrophage-research supporting (a viral alternative to antibiotics if you're unfamiliar), med student. Just because I support allopathic medicine doesn't mean I have any of the same interests as the pharmaceutical industry.

 

Science is the process of exploring and tangibly testing our world, with guidelines for when a hypothesis is acceptable or unacceptable. If you watch viruses replicate, and tease out the mechanisms involved in their entry, and reproduction within cells, you're learning about their function in the only way you can - by looking at them, and testing their behaviour under different conditions. If a naturopathic method works, science, which is impartial, will show that it does. There are naturally occurring macrophages (viruses that eat bacteria) that are more potent than our most powerful antibiotics, and completely non-toxic. They have been used with great success in several countries. It's the power of the pharmaceutical companies in our free market economy that have kept them from being widely used. Science shows they work; science has nothing to do with big business or promoting certain interests. It's impartial.

 

If you honestly believe that you can become impenetrable to viruses, please - PLEASE consider the danger that poses to anyone who believes you. If you want to put these methods to the test, (and I hope you wouldn't be foolish enough to actually do this) - try sharing a needle with an hepatitis and HIV-positive person, and see where theory and reality meet.

 

P.S. there is not much pharmaceutical interest in suppressing viral treatments...as many viruses are untreatable. Antiretrovirals only work against certain classes of retoviruses, and there are types of viruses for which no treatment exists at all (notice that there's no pharmaceutical aimed at curing rhinovirus infections?).

[BodhiDave85]

READ FLOOD YOUR BODY WITH OXYGEN, AVAILABLE AT AMAZON.COM FOR BEST INFORMATION REGARDING PERMANENT CURE AND FREEDOM FROM VIRUSES. THIS INFORMATION HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSED BY THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND PEOPLE LIKE MEDMAN ABOVE.

 

ALSO GOOGLE OZONE AND OXYGEN THERAPY.

 

THAT IS ALL I CAN DO FOR NOW FOR MEDMAN WHO SEEMS TO THINK HIS SCIENCE IS SATISFACTORY.

 

I WOULD JUST FLUNK HIM.

 

"people like me"? I'm a left-wing, vegan, nutrition-promoting, macrophage-research supporting (a viral alternative to antibiotics if you're unfamiliar), med student. Just because I support allopathic medicine doesn't mean I have any of the same interests as the pharmaceutical industry.

 

Science is the process of exploring and tangibly testing our world, with guidelines for when a hypothesis is acceptable or unacceptable. If you watch viruses replicate, and tease out the mechanisms involved in their entry, and reproduction within cells, you're learning about their function in the only way you can - by looking at them, and testing their behaviour under different conditions. If a naturopathic method works, science, which is impartial, will show that it does. There are naturally occurring macrophages (viruses that eat bacteria) that are more potent than our most powerful antibiotics, and completely non-toxic. They have been used with great success in several countries. It's the power of the pharmaceutical companies in our free market economy that have kept them from being widely used. Science shows they work; science has nothing to do with big business or promoting certain interests. It's impartial.

 

If you honestly believe that you can become impenetrable to viruses, please - PLEASE consider the danger that poses to anyone who believes you. If you want to put these methods to the test, (and I hope you wouldn't be foolish enough to actually do this) - try sharing a needle with an hepatitis and HIV-positive person, and see where theory and reality meet.

 

P.S. there is not much pharmaceutical interest in suppressing viral treatments...as many viruses are untreatable. Antiretrovirals only work against certain classes of retoviruses, and there are types of viruses for which no treatment exists at all (notice that there's no pharmaceutical aimed at curing rhinovirus infections?).

 

Medman what would you reccommend for me, Ive now been sick with a runny nose, sore throat, cough, chest congestion and occasional fevers for 4 days now. Ive resorted to OTC meds from a local grocery store, which are not vegan and dont feel like they are doing a dam thing. Im drinking tea every hour, staying warm, sleeping non stop, eating almost 100% raw and this wont give up. I dont have insurance, because i naively thought I wouldnt be getting sick anytime soon, should i go to a doctor and just pay cash or is there any hope for me?

[Guest]

Going raw brings on the cleansing crisis that you are experiencing. The cleansing is a sign that your body is healing itself. You can get a cheap old our book, "Survival in the 21st Century" at Amazon. That will explain it to you.

 

From your picture, you have youth on your side. Do everything you can to encourage the cleansing. Review and implement my previous references.

 

Seek out a competent naturopath, homeopathic, or ayurvedic doctor. The over the counter allopathic remedies will only suppress the symptoms and compromise your systemic health and poison your liver.

 

Also, begin hydrogen peroxide or ozone therapy to kill pathogens. Again, see above reference.

 

Far infrared saunas (google it) can assist expulsion of toxic waste.

 

If symptoms, persist, seek out a competent allopathic physician for a diagnosis and then use diagnosis to find alternative natural treatments that are appropriate. If you can use this website, then you can use Google and find all the tools and information you need. I have also made myself available to you.

 

Also, see recipes for baths which I have posted at ACTIVE TOPICS >>> RAW FOODS YEAH! and HI VEGANS. These are very healing. We were able to shrink a breast tumor caused by the paploma virus using the methodologies which I have posted.

 

To all you naysayers who seemed so inclined to try to swarm over what I have written . . . . . . . . you are really missing the boat. That is your tragic destiny. What I have written has its own history and fine destiny, to be sure. Why are you determined to miss out on it?