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Dear Medman,

 

Of course cold beet soup, borscht, is great. It can be vegan.

 

Instead of sour cream, we blend the beets with sunflower seeds or almonds or cashews which have been soaked overnight. Celtic or Himilayan seed salt will balance out the sometimes excessive sweetness of the beets. Sprinkle fresh parlsey and onion on top for an extra kick. YUMMMMMMMM!!!!!

 

Beware my prior warning about the laxative effects of beets. It takes quite a while for people to used to significant amount of beets.

 

Got it?

Moon_sleeps.gif.50afb5f278edccbef04c4ff3eec4f05c.gif

BEETS ARE A CELESTIAL FOOD!

Edited by Anonymous
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Dear Medman,

 

Of course cold beet soup (I don't want to have to think about spelling the other word - BORCHSTACHA - with all my responsibilities) is great.

 

Instead of sour cream, we blend the beets with sunflower seeds or almonds or cashews which have been soaked overnight. Celtic or Himilayan seed salt will balance out the sometimes excessive sweetness of the beets. Sprinkle fresh parlsey and onion on top for an extra kick. YUMMMMMMMM!!!!!

 

Beware my prior warning about laxative effects of beets. It takes quite a while for people to used to significant amount of beets.

 

Got it?

 

I adjusted to it without sour cream years ago when I went vegan, but I'll have to try soaked cashews and sunflower seeds! Very creative. And yes - you have to watch out for the laxative effect!

 

I'm Your Man:

 

I very strongly disagree with you on the issue of transfusions, transplants & the concept of cannibalism (I missed that post until I saw it quoted). I will tell you something similar to part of my discussion with RTascajr regarding my personal interest in surgery rather than a more preventive form of medicine. There are simply things - both accidents and disease - that diet and exercise can't prevent. If you're out cycling, which is ironically a great way to help with staying healthy, and a negligent motorist hits you, hard - maybe you're now bleeding intracranially. The only thing that can be done to save your life is to drill a hole into your skull to relieve the pressure. Now, you're probably losing a lot of blood in this process - without a transfusion, you would surely die.

 

To the child with leukemia, who needs a bone marrow transplant - do you believe that they and their parents should learn to deal with death, natural a process as it might be, when they have a real chance at living a full life with a transplant? The child did nothing to contribute to their condition - I doubt they were smoking or playing with radioisotopes. There are many babies, children, and adults who need transplants - due to either genetic disorders or accidents that had nothing to do with lifestyle choices.

 

Every donation of blood, tissues and organs can be used to save a life (or try to, at the very least) that would otherwise be lost. We aren't farming people for body parts or anything - the donations to not end life or cause suffering to the donor, but they can greatly help those in need. If I die a sudden, accidental death, I hope that nearly all of my organs are recovered quickly and in good enough condition that they can be transplanted - at least that way, I can contribute just a little bit more good before the story of my life is over.

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I respect the people who donate blood, I think it's a great act of generosity and kindness, it can help many people and save lives. I often wanted to do it too -- but not anymore.

 

Some people are gonna be shocked by what I,m gonna say:

I think it's cannibalism, modern canibalism. Blood transfusions is vampirism,n ot different from drinking human blood. Organ transplants is canibalism too. Like eating someone else's heart or kidney.

Death, diseases, etc are part of life, it's natural (even when it comes from not very natural causes like cigarettes, etc) and one should learn to accept death instead of living with someone else's blood.

I think it's a wrong way to spend our energy : trying to heal instead of preventing. To much money and energy is spent on research about finding cures, instead of finding what causes all these diseases and promote a healthy lifestyle and nutrition. But there's more money spent on publicity for butter, milk, meat, etc. Result: more people need more blood and organ transplant.

I think we should concentrate on death causes that are not natural and that we could do something to stop or reduce, by trying to change spiritually : wars, genocides, homicides, famines (caused by unatural eating habits of rich countries). To me, those are sad deaths that could be avoided if we all work together. But when a person need someone else's blood, there's a reason, it's because that person made bad decisions, leading to the disease, and there will always be persons like that, who will always ask for other's blood, while we can't do anything to avoid this. What I mean to say actually is this: in wars, innocent civilians are being killed while they never done anything to deserve dying. While on the other part: people who need blood transfusions or organs are responsible for their own situations. Except when someone is stabbed or shot, etc, but that's cases from the first category : things that should have never happened in the first place if we would try solving the problems at the source.

 

 

Hmm, that's interesting. I agree with some of what you say: death is natural, we should work on prevention.

 

However, I don't buy your conclusion. Death is natural, but fighting to stay alive is just as natural. So if you saw someone get hit by a car and she was lying there dying and you were the only person around to help, you would walk away and leave her to die because death is natural and we should be working on preventing car accidents instead of treating accident victims? Or would you help her?

 

I would help her, of course. Besides, it would be a crime not to assist someone in danger of death. I would call an ambulance, try first aids, etc, but I wouldn't cut my veins and donate my blood right there. Besides, I said that blood transfusions may be OK for accidents like that, because it's NOT THE FAULT of the injured person. It's diferent than someone who has been smoking 2 packs of cigarettes per day, knowing it's bad, and then ask for another lung, or people who don't care about their health so they eat anything while never asking themselves if it's good or bad for them... well, too bad for you but now deal with your problems.

In one case it's involuntary, in the other case it's voluntary and conscious, eventhough it's people who are kind of unconscious and never think.

Remember every acts have future consequences.

 

 

Yes, it's very important to work on prevention of disease and violence and the other things that can lead to "premature" death. But while we do that, there are going to be plenty of people who are sick and injured and could be saved by blood or an organ.

 

Well, that's sad but it's life. There's other things even more sad, that are priorities. Like innocent kids being killed for ABSOLUTELY no reasons in massacres. It's more important and urgent and makes more sense to stop death caused by US, HUMANS (and at least it's in the realm of possibility) than trying to stop natural deaths caused by nature, like natural forest fires caused by lightning strike, or killing millions of insects with chemicals, killing thousands of mad cows because they could cause the death of humans. Human is always trying to ignore it's responsability in the problems and deaths he created, telling lies to itself and trying to make believe that Nature is the one that is guilty for all our misfortunes.

There's the natural climate changes, but mankind accelerated that and amplified it to the point that it's gonna cause supernatural amplitude disasters.

 

To suggest that we should just let those people die because prevention is important makes no sense at all.

 

If it were you and you could have a blood transfusion and live or refuse one and die, how would you choose?

 

If I need a blood transfusion one day, I hope that I'm gonna have the force to refuse it and let myself die peacefully, or find the force within me to survive without it. I would feel strange, feeling not like me but like an alien entity, if I had the blood of a stranger flowing in my veins.

 

Besides, there's many pervert sides to those modern practices:

-the organ black market traffic, some people disappears and are being kidnapped just for this. Certain organs worth hundreds and even thousands of dollars on the black market and are being sold to rich people or hospitals. Watch the series Human Trafficking.

Not to mention that human hair from third-world countires women are used to produce L-cystine found in bread products such as commercial tortillas.

-Prions can be transmitted in the blood supply. In Europe, people have died after receiving blood from prion infected donors." The link between Prions, mad cow disease, Parkinson, Alzheimer... human cow disease, cannibalism, see what happens when a nation eat their own deads (samething than blood and organ transplant) with the Kuru disease .

http://www.rense.com/general66/amdm.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/05/010511074623.htm

-Many cases of people who died from infected human blood or organs. In many countries the blood from donators is not inspected. For instance, many Mexican immigrants just cross the border and donate blood in small clinics. I've seen a documentary with hidden cameras and we see that :no questions are asked or the donator just lie on his medical history, or most of the time doesn't even know his blood is infected with something.

 

Check out the deadly Chagas insect that lays parasite into human blood:

http://www.cocori.com/library/eco/chagas.htm

"In Central and South America Chagas Disease is a bigger threat than AIDS. It infects an estimated 18 million people in Latin America and kills 20,000 every year. And with cases now showing up in other parts of the world, passed through blood transfusions, it isn't a disease of just the Latin peasant anymore."

 

Chagas : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagas_disease

Edited by I'm Your Man
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Medman comments above deserve great consideration and merit. I agree with him wholeheartedly. We bought a couple of months of quality life for my Dad with the transfusions which the doctor ordered near the end of his life. My father had been a rather committed vegetarian for years. He had colonic irrigation. He drank raw juices and wheatgrass. In the end, as for all of us, something "got him".

 

While healthy diet and lifestyle and fitness activity can sometimes cure disease, prevent much disease, insure a better quality of life and increase longevity - and that is very exciting - the medical approach is always an important part of the picture for most people. It is always a question of balance and prudence and practicality as to what is necessary in any moment.

 

What I love about India is that so many of the hospitals are ayurvedic and homeopathic and the whole society is still much more natural than the West. They do have some of the best allopathic hospitals in the world also. They have a much better sense of the balance that I am suggesting than is evidenced in the West which has been captured almost entirely by the scientificmedicalpharmaceuticalnotholistic model.

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If I need a blood transfusion one day, I hope that I'm gonna have the force to refuse it and let myself die peacefully, or find the force within me to survive without it. I would feel strange, feeling not like me but like an alien entity, if I had the blood of a stranger flowing in my veins.

 

Besides, there's many pervert sides to those modern practices...

 

Hypothetical situation: nasty cooking accident. Arterial bleed (spurting, hard to stop). You lose a lot of blood and start feeling fuzzy. Would you actually prefer to die, young and healthy, than to accept a blood transfusion? I guess this situation wouldn't likely come up; if you lost so much blood that you'd need a transfusion, you'd probably have passed out by the time the paramedics got there, and an unconscious victim means implied consent to treatment, hehe.

 

Yes, there are parts of the world where tainted blood and stolen organs are a problem. But do you know how many diseases can be cause by tainted plant-based food? I wouldn't see that as a reason to stop eating, though. I'm not a fan of that kind of argument.

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hey everybody thanks for the responses. it's fun to read all about this. I'm really siked to start giving blood now. I think there's like a limit in Sweden that allows you to give blood not more than 4 times per year.

According to a doctor I spoke to there's about a 1 in a thousand chance that blood that is infected with HIV won't get detected so I understand that there is great precaution when it comes do deciding which social groups are allowed to donate. In Sweden research has shown that around 2,5-3% of the population is gay/bi but the homosexuals represent 50% of the hiv infected. I'm not saying it's fair that the gays aren't allowed to donate blood, I'm just saying it is understandable.

 

HIV infection rates in Homosexual men are high, and I'm not disputing that, I just think that other blood donors, who have a extremely high risk of carrying a disease are freely allowed to give blood. Questions can asked that will eliminate all risky donors without removing healthy, uninfected members of the population who happen to be gay.

HIV rates in Gay men over 30, in most countries are dropping - I fall into this cateogorie - I pratice safe sexual pratices and I get tested every 3 months, how many straight men get tested at all!

HIV rates are increasing most in certain ethnic groups - Maybe only White Hetrosexuals should be allowed to give blood?

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as I said, I'm not defending these rules. I juat plain and simple understand them. I think it is really stupid that you can't donate blood, especially since you have tests done that can prove you don't have the virus. One of my friends wasn't allowed to donate once because the nurse was totally convinced he was on the roids, pretty discriminating to think that all people with good physiques are taking shit like that. Do I think it was unjust that he was denied giving blood? Yes. But I am still happy that they took that precausion since a lot of roid users have various infections and viruses going around because they share needles.

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If I need a blood transfusion one day, I hope that I'm gonna have the force to refuse it and let myself die peacefully, or find the force within me to survive without it. I would feel strange, feeling not like me but like an alien entity, if I had the blood of a stranger flowing in my veins.

 

Besides, there's many pervert sides to those modern practices...

 

Hypothetical situation: nasty cooking accident. Arterial bleed (spurting, hard to stop). You lose a lot of blood and start feeling fuzzy. Would you actually prefer to die, young and healthy, than to accept a blood transfusion? I guess this situation wouldn't likely come up; if you lost so much blood that you'd need a transfusion, you'd probably have passed out by the time the paramedics got there, and an unconscious victim means implied consent to treatment, hehe.

 

Yes, there are parts of the world where tainted blood and stolen organs are a problem. But do you know how many diseases can be cause by tainted plant-based food? I wouldn't see that as a reason to stop eating, though. I'm not a fan of that kind of argument.

 

You're right, if I need blood while I'm still young, I wouldn't want to die so young and I would accept that blood. EVENTHOUGH IT'S NOT VEGAN AT ALL (who tought about that?)... to die as a vegan or to live non-vegan, that is the question, LoL.

Seriously, you're right, I would like to have a chance to survive. Therefore, I should donate blood. Just once. Because I may need a blood transfusion one day in the future. Everybody should donate blood one time, therefore we do a fair trade in exchange of a chance to live again in case of emergency. Because everybody potentially need blood transfusion.

 

But I won't donate blood more than once, because I'm still against this method of prolonging life, for the reasons I already mentioned in my previous posts. Let me explain : I would accept to receive blood if I need it, because blood transfusions exist, it's available. It's like cell phones and other horrors of modern times. I hate technologies, but I use them anyway. But I'de be glad if they wouldn't exist. But since it exist and it saves lifes, I have no choice to accept it and I must admit it's a good thing when it saves good people and innocent people. But the planet is getting overpopulated by humans, and if I had to chose which lives we save and which ones we let go, I would say : let's stop the wars, and let do what the diseases and accidents have to do. It's kind of ridiculous trying to kill an innocent person ON PURPOSE with a gun, and then 2 minutes later trying to save his life with blood. I say let's teach meditation and more arts, creativity, and physical activity in schools instead of mathematics. Perhaps after a few generations there won't be volontary death like wars and murders of any kind anymore, so we will learn to accept deaths on which we don't have the control to start or to stop.

 

If blood transfusions wouldn't exist or wouldn't be accepted because of the risks of contagion or other reasons, we would think about all that in a different way and we would see death from a different point of view, perhaps accepting death more easily. Now when someone dies, the family want to kill the doctor and pursue the hospital for incompetence. In our modern age, with all surgeries, high tech equipment, doctors with diplomas after 15 years of University, etc, death has become something unnaceptable and not normal. It is normal to survive decades with a cancer by taking 20 pills per day and not being able to walk, eat or shit normally, but dying is not natural anymore.

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I've never donated blood and I wouldn't be allowed in my country to do so because I have lots of close relatives who have suffered epilepsia so I could have it myself. I think those are the rules. But if somewhere else I would be allowed to do it I would. I have my blood tested at least once a year (last year was like 5 times ) because I don't only want to make sure I'm clean from sicknesses, I also want to know that other things are going fine.

 

I don't agree that gays shouldn't be allowed to donate if they can prove they're clean. If anyone: straight, homosexual or extraterrestrial wants to donate and his/her blood is clean they should be allowed to. But that's not a black and white policy; I think depend on the stats of each country e.g. if in Jsrtinland 60% of white young women happen to have an STD (any) they should be very very careful on allowing them to donate.

 

Also I agree with medman on disagreeing with I'm your man in cannibalism and vampiristic acts on blood and organs donating. It's not a matter of whether it's vegan or not, it's a matter of making a good to somebody in the world. While being vegan by not eating chicken will save lifes, being vegan by not donating won't save lifes.

 

I have a deep respect for those who donated blood or organs and I think it's an act of compassion like few. I needed a donation once myself because I needed a surgery that was not related at all with how I conducted my lifestyle. I didn't use the blood in the end but somebody else did and that was a life that was preserved to no other life's detriment. I would definitely donate blood and when I die I want my useful organs to be transplanted into whoever might need them; I would probably do it while alive, I'd live with one kidney if a beloved person would need the other one. I don't care about it being vegan or not, I do care about life.

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Seriously, you're right, I would like to have a chance to survive. Therefore, I should donate blood. Just once. Because I may need a blood transfusion one day in the future. Everybody should donate blood one time, therefore we do a fair trade in exchange of a chance to live again in case of emergency. Because everybody potentially need blood transfusion.

 

But I won't donate blood more than once

The thing is though the amount you may one day require in a transfusion - and I hope you never need to receive blood but as people have already said you never know, especially with accidents - may be much, much more than you yourself have given in your single, one-off donation.

 

Some people lose incredible amounts of blood - so much so it's amazing they in fact survive - and need many, many pints of blood (provided in multiple donations by many people) in order to survive.

 

Also whats to say that you won't require multiple donations at various times in your life?

 

So your single donation may not necessarily be a fair trade.

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Seriously, you're right, I would like to have a chance to survive. Therefore, I should donate blood. Just once. Because I may need a blood transfusion one day in the future. Everybody should donate blood one time, therefore we do a fair trade in exchange of a chance to live again in case of emergency. Because everybody potentially need blood transfusion.

 

But I won't donate blood more than once

The thing is though the amount you may one day require in a transfusion - and I hope you never need to receive blood but as people have already said you never know, especially with accidents - may be much, much more than you yourself have given in your single, one-off donation.

 

Some people lose incredible amounts of blood - so much so it's amazing they in fact survive - and need many, many pints of blood (provided in multiple donations by many people) in order to survive.

 

Also whats to say that you won't require multiple donations at various times in your life?

 

So your single donation may not necessarily be a fair trade.

 

Yes it would be because if everybody just make 1 donation in their life it's plenty enough blood for everybody who need some.

 

Also, I doubt I will need multiple blood transfusions, like getting hit by a car every week. If I get a disease which require to become dependant of frequent blood transfusions for the rest of my entire life, I prefer dying, or becoming a real vampire hunting at night, lol.

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Yes it would be because if everybody just make 1 donation in their life it's plenty enough blood for everybody who need some.

 

Also, I doubt I will need multiple blood transfusions, like getting hit by a car every week. If I get a disease which require to become dependant of frequent blood transfusions for the rest of my entire life, I prefer dying, or becoming a real vampire hunting at night, lol.

 

I think what he meant is that, if you are bleeding profusely or receiving certain types of surgery, you need multiple units of blood in that single transfusion, while you can only donate one unit at a time.

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still, what I say is if every adult on earth give blood once, it's enough to suply for everybody in need, and therefore, it's fair enough. If 1 donation per life ain't enough, then maybe 1 donation per 5 years or 10 years.

 

I'm not gonna give 100 000 gallons of my blood during my life to be fair just in case I need that much transfusions later. If we think like that we would do nothing else everyday except donate blood.

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I'm a regular blood donor. Here is a list of facts about blood donation.

 

I've infused blood and blood products into patients for a variety of reasons during my career. There is NO substitute for it in most cases, if it's being used for the right reasons. And it's usually used for the right reasons today, especially since supplies are so short. It was much easier to get your hospital's blood bank to release blood products in years past.

 

I wish more people would give blood so that we would have a FRESHER supply at hand. As it's nearing its expiration date, donated blood is not nearly as good as fresh blood (for a variety of biochemical reasons). Additionally, several studies have shown that regular blood donors live longer and healthier lives than non-donors (corrected for overall disease level). If you REALLY want to detox - Donate Blood! (That was a joke, but it just might be true)

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If they want me to donate blood they could try more convenient hours instead of the crack of dawn, in the middle of my work day, or butt early on the weekends. I want to do it again, but their hours and locations suck.

 

My last workplace had regular blood drives organized by the business park where we were located. The mobile blood collection unit aka bloodmobile set up shop for the day in our parking lot. It was added incentive to donate as pretty much all of the employeers in the business park allowed an extra hour out of the workday for their employees to donate.

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It is understandable that gays are not allowed to donate blood.

 

quote]

 

WHAT?? How is it understandable that a gay person is not allowed to donate blood? How can a whole group of vastly different people, born gay, be subjected to this kind of discrimination because otherrs have f'd up? There are millions of non promiscious gay couples that only have safe sexual relations with 1 partner who are both HIV-negative, thus posing absolutely no risk. The only thing i see that is understandable is that Red Cross is lazy and/or homophobic not to judge each person on a case by case basis.

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The form you have to fill in each time before a donation asks lots of personal questions about your sex life, including if you have ever had sex with a woman who takes money for having sex. But they never ask if anyone has sex with sheep. You could catch some nasty diseases from sheep, but the Blood Donor Service doesn't seem to care.

 

There's an article on Testy Nation in which they discuss the dangers of too much iron in meat eaters, and suggest that a good way to get rid of some of the excess is to donate blood regularly.

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But they never ask if anyone has sex with sheep. You could catch some nasty diseases from sheep, but the Blood Donor Service doesn't seem to care.

 

Actually, there are relatively few zoonoses (animal diseases that can cross over to humans), while almost anything that a human sexual partner is infected with is likely to be transmitted. Just something I wanted to add after reading that, hehe.

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You're right, if I need blood while I'm still young, I wouldn't want to die so young and I would accept that blood. EVENTHOUGH IT'S NOT VEGAN AT ALL (who tought about that?)... to die as a vegan or to live non-vegan, that is the question, LoL.

How is receiving a blood transfusion not vegan? Or was that just a joke?

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You're right, if I need blood while I'm still young, I wouldn't want to die so young and I would accept that blood. EVENTHOUGH IT'S NOT VEGAN AT ALL (who tought about that?)... to die as a vegan or to live non-vegan, that is the question, LoL.

How is receiving a blood transfusion not vegan? Or was that just a joke?

No that's not a joke. I'm gonna let you think about it for a moment, try to find out why blood is not a plant, lol.
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Well, it doesn't involve exploitation so I say it's vegan. But if you go with the definition of "anything that comes from an animal", then your own saliva isn't vegan, therefore veganism cannot exist. So it's a pretty silly definition to have.

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Well, it doesn't involve exploitation so I say it's vegan. But if you go with the definition of "anything that comes from an animal", then your own saliva isn't vegan, therefore veganism cannot exist. So it's a pretty silly definition to have.

It's not a silly definition, it's THE definition that most vegans agree with, except the vegans that accept to consume honey, saying there's no exploitation of the bees and that we actually save them from a certain death. Let me tell to them that bees, like anybody else, prefer dying free then living as slaves. If If blood transfusions are vegan, then we could say that bats and blood parasites are vegan animals. Stealing milk from cows for human consumption isn't respectuous. If we take blood from a pig without hurting him and without "exploitation" and drink it it's not vegan neither. Drinking human blood (or by intravenous) is not only non-vegan, it's cannibalism -- eating blood or bodypart from your own specie. If you swallow your own saliva, or if you bite your nails or suck your own blood when injured, it is self-cannibalism, but it is the only non-vegan act that is accepted as a vegan act -- even if self-mutilation is cruel and can cause pain --, because it doesn't involve anybody else than yourself. Burning bodyfat while running or losing lean mass is also self-cannibalism, but vegans who eat themselves by losing weight are still vegans. But if you eat the fat or muscles from another human, it's different from a biological point of view : eating proteins from your own body, own DNA, don't have any potentially dangerous effects (because your body recognize those as already being part of you) while on the contrary to ingest proteins from another individual of the same specie have a very crazy effect causing the proteins to become malign and deformed, infectious proteins called prions and leading to degenerative diseases. Nobody would have side effects from drinking his own blood but many people's body reject blood during transfusions or feel sick and "strange" for 3 days.

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