Bigz's Fruitarian/Workout Progress Pics/update

[Balazs]

DV

I think it is a very useful forum and it hepled me a lot, even in body-building.

It is good to hear the experiences of others, not just read the stuff from books, about detox and things. They actually felt it, experienced. If you do not believe the books, then believe them, or try it and you will see.

I am still new in raw veganism but this forum helps me a lot and motivate me in bodybuilding and in other sports as well.

so i think it is good but i like good arguments as well, they can be useful.

peace

[Im Your Man]

@DV and Offense: I don't know how many times you tried to get rid of the raw section. I still do not understand why. If raw people do things you don't (want to) understand you always ask for scientific back-up (which just does not exist), say you are worried about newbies and feel the need to protect them from unscientific and potentially dangerous information ( we had the discussion about modern science quite a few times now) and now, DV, you say you are worried about the forum itself suggesting the division between members jeopardizes the community.

 

IMO the forum benefits from the diversity of its members (including the raw members).

 

In the discussions we already had about this issue it has been said several times that raw foodists are aware of the fact they do not have a "scientific" proof. It has also been said that they do not believe in the science you (want to) represent. What bothers them is to exchange the same arguments again and again. This is not about avoiding discussions. Bigbwii never claimed to have scientific back-ups. He just reported about what he is doing (and he is doing great). You cannot impose you value system (including you trust in modern science) on what he is doing. This just doesn't work.

 

There are and always will be things that science cannot explain.

SO TRUE. This behavior of always saying "No no, give me some scientific data and facts" so commonly heard from meateaters against veganism, as well as vegans arguing about raw food. Thing is, like Flanders said, there's no scientific evidence about raw foods, but there are raw facts observable in real life, which imho are more solid proofs than some interpretation of test tubes analysis. Even when we provide scientific data that would normally satisfy their request, then they just contest those facts or counter with another study -- because all scientific studies don't mean anything ! They're conducted and interpreted by humans and humans are corrupted by their beliefs.

 

The thing is that the technology allowing study of living organisms (like living blood and living foods) is new and not perfect yet. Most of the time it's simply impossible to study raw food, because everything in it is moving and cannot be observed. All studies on food and nutrition datas are made on cooked/dead foods. The evidence concerning raw/versus cooked are available in real life, like Lean& Green and Bigbwii results and life experiences for instance.

 

Another example how scientific tests are ineffective in several areas is with the potential risks surrounding genetically modified foods (sorry for the off-topic) : there's no scientific evidence proving there's dangers from long exposure to GMO's to human heath short term, but who can say there's no risks long term ? Also, it is possible that GMO's cause side effects on humans but it is impossible to identify or detect them with scientific methods in the middle of all GMO's on the market and all population using it, with various possible side effects that we can't even imagine... There's no test made on humans (except us, the people who buy GM foods serve as guinea pigs) and tests on rats are conducted for only a few days ! but, sometimes in real life there's accidents that worth a thousand years of laboratory research... Like in 1988 in the U.S. when some genetically modified L-Tryptophan sold as food supplements caused the death at least 100 persons and 5 000 to 10 000 became sick or paralysed (when it says 37 deads and 1500 permanently disabled it's not the updated estimated numbers) . The only way that GMOs have been identified as the cause is because it generated a new disease (called EMS) and because there was only one source. Google "Showa Denko EMS"... http://consumerlawpage.com/article/tryptophan.shtml

http://www.psrast.org/demsd.htm

[Balazs]

well said

[Katabatic]

Despite the existence of well-tested theories, science cannot claim absolute knowledge of nature or the behavior of the subject or of the field of study due to epistemological problems that are unavoidable and preclude the discovery or establishment of absolute truth. Unlike a mathematical proof, a scientific theory is empirical, and is always open to falsification, if new evidence is presented. Even the most basic and fundamental theories may turn out to be imperfect if new observations are inconsistent with them.

[offense74]

If I came to a board where people claimed to get big muscles thanks to Danton the cosmic poodle and noone challenged this view I would laugh and move on.

[Im Your Man]

I think this guy built that much muscles only with bodyweight exercices...

 

photo gallery: http://bodyweightculture.com/photopost/showgallery.php/ppuser/29316/cat/500

 

video:

 

I don't know if he's doing also dumbells on top of that bodyweight training, but he's on bodyweightculture.com and some people said, that he said, he's not using free weights and machines. Most people contest the veracity of this, and it's also against the science of traditional bodybuilding for hypertrophy (do 4 sets of 8-12 reps, etc)

[DaN]

Danton the cosmic poodle

 

I cant believe you would criticise Danton.That dog helped me get to where I am today.

 

[Balazs]

I never thought that it is possible to build such body with weigt training.

It is quite motivating i will try this in my workout tonight.

[Warrior]

Your looking great Richard. Keep up the good work!

[TigreBella]

SO TRUE. This behavior of always saying "No no, give me some scientific data and facts" so commonly heard from meateaters against veganism, as well as vegans arguing about raw food. Thing is, like Flanders said, there's no scientific evidence about raw foods, but there are raw facts observable in real life, which imho are more solid proofs than some interpretation of test tubes analysis. Even when we provide scientific data that would normally satisfy their request, then they just contest those facts or counter with another study -- because all scientific studies don't mean anything ! They're conducted and interpreted by humans and humans are corrupted by their beliefs.

 

Ditto to that one, I'm Your Man!

 

 

 

Great going, Bigbwii! You're an inspiration to me and my husband! We saw your youtube videos and have been looking over some of your past posts on this forum as well, and we must say we're impressed! It definitely helps give us encouragement to continue our path to a better healthier life, fruitarian-style!

[Zack]

I can't believe people are actually this gullible. 2 CUPS of juice for years....

[Im Your Man]

I can't believe people are actually this gullible. 2 CUPS of juice for years....

actually 800ml is more than 3 cups, right ? But scientists just found a small insect able to transform nitrogen from air in proteins it needs to survive. lol

[TigreBella]

I can't believe people are actually this gullible. 2 CUPS of juice for years....

actually 800ml is more than 3 cups, right ? But scientists just found a small insect able to transform nitrogen from air in proteins it needs to survive. lol

 

See? Nothing's impossible! *high-fives I'm Your Man*

 

I mean, really! Don't you think meat-eaters talk down like that about Vegans? "Oh, it's impossible to live with no meat! It can't be done! You'll kill yourself!" So in a way, it's no better than how the meat-eaters think about us. *shrugs* I'm just being honest.

 

Besides, there's so much about life that man has yet to understand! It's funny, because we say some things are impossible, but believe in things that others say are impossible...whether it's Veganism, God, Santa Clause, or whatever! In reality, I think we all just need to listen to what our bodies tell us is natural and true, and just stop living our lives by what others assume is the correct way. Besides, everyone has a mind of their own, right?

[Balazs]

A couple of years ago I would not have believed that it is possible to survive without meat, or do some kind of sports, because of the proteins. I used supplements and eat meat just for the proteins.

And now

I am 100% raw for a month now, and no supplements at all, and 95% fruits. So ?

And i am thriving and happier than ever.

After this kind of change in beliefs and in body I at least accept this kind of things, and maybe experience it some day as I am experiencing it with raw foods at the moment.

[Warrior]

I have a feeling that Richard might have stopped being a fruitarian again. He's deleted his Youtube account and made a new one 'Shud up N Train'. His MySpace doesnt mention him being a fruitarian anymore. He has made a new website called 'Shud up N Train'.

 

I rekon he might have gone back to being a raw vegan.

[flanders77]

I have a feeling that Richard might have stopped being a fruitarian again. He's deleted his Youtube account and made a new one 'Shud up N Train'. His MySpace doesnt mention him being a fruitarian anymore. He has made a new website called 'Shud up N Train'.

I rekon he might have gone back to being a raw vegan.

 

Please stop spreading rumors. Try reading what his myspace page really says:

 

"This page is for former clients and people passionate about health, fitness, raw veganism, fruitarianism, liquidarianism and breatharianism."

and

"I WILL NOT ADD YOU AS A FRIEND IF YOUR NOT A FRUITARIAN/RAW VEGAN OR INTO FITNESS BIG TIME!!!!"

[DaN]

I mean if anyone trains with weights, a few times a week & then only drinks 3 cup of fruit juice a day are not going to be bulked.Thats just basic science.

 

I used to eat around 2000 calories a day, while working out, & I didnt gain a single pound of muscle.

 

Only by eating 3000 calories plus will you get to the size Bigbwii is in on the photos that started this thread.

 

Im not saying you cant survive on 3 cups of fruit juice a day.You probably can.It might even have some strange benefits.But you are going to be very slim, if not very skinny.

 

Lets not forget that some Buddhist monks survive on tiny amounts of just rice & tea, and they are probably healthy, although as I said, are very skinny.

 

Thats just the way I see it.

[Im Your Man]

I mean if anyone trains with weights, a few times a week & then only drinks 3 cup of fruit juice a day are not going to be bulked.Thats just basic science.

 

I used to eat around 2000 calories a day, while working out, & I didnt gain a single pound of muscle.

 

Only by eating 3000 calories plus will you get to the size Bigbwii is in on the photos that started this thread.

 

Im not saying you cant survive on 3 cups of fruit juice a day.You probably can.It might even have some strange benefits.But you are going to be very slim, if not very skinny.

 

Lets not forget that some Buddhist monks survive on tiny amounts of just rice & tea, and they are probably healthy, although as I said, are very skinny.

 

Thats just the way I see it.

Let's not forget that perhaps he's not bulking on this juice diet, he just by some kind of natural miracle manage to maintain his mass that he acquired before.

Besides, I don't think we need 3000 calories to bulk, -- or at least it varies from a person to another -- it is possible to gain muscle while losing bodyfat, on 75% or less of your normal calorie requirement, and that is with "normal", industrial nutrition. If your diet is very clean and natural, perhaps you can go under 50% of your normal energy requirement and still "thrive" and even constantly gain lean mass... But with an ultra low protein diet like fruit juices, I don't know.

I bet that 3 cups of pure juice made of freshly pressed organic fruits are better than some white refined rice that bouddhist monks eat. Because the fruit juice is high in vitamins and living energy. Even just a few sips offers more potential than a bowl of cooked white rice.

The "strange benefits" you're talking about is in the middle of this polemic. We don't know much about such an unorthodox diet.

[Zack]

 

Why do others starve to death while bigbwii magically survives?

 

Must be the detox....

[offense74]

I can't believe people are actually this gullible. 2 CUPS of juice for years....

Who said that the laws of thermodynamics are facts? We don't know everything there is to know about energy and it's states.

[DaN]

Besides, I don't think we need 3000 calories to bulk, -- or at least it varies from a person to another -- it is possible to gain muscle while losing bodyfat,

 

I agree, if you start off FAT, you can bulk up muscle without eating too many calories, but for your average person (like me or you), 3000 is a good amount that will work (of course I am generalising)

 

I know less than this will not work because i've tried it hehe!

 

Why do others starve to death while bigbwii magically survives?

 

Absolutely true.There are Africans receiving more nutritious food aid than 3 cups of juice a day that are still dying of malnutrition.

 

Who said that the laws of thermodynamics are facts? We don't know everything there is to know about energy and it's states

 

This is also true.Its unlikely, but possible, that Bigbwii has a different ability than others when it comes to his ability to utilise energy.

[Gaia]

It is hard to see Big's perspective because he is so far down the road on his personal journey. His perspective is 2 cups of juice a day (though that could just be an average, and he said it was his juice of choice. Perhaps there is kale juice, or even bean juice? ), and to some of us that perspective is ridiculous. The body is an amazing machine, and perhaps his basal metabolism is so low as to be able to maintain, or perhaps his body has adjusted (over the years) to have novel enzymes do remarkable building of amino acids/muscles out of whatever he drinks. (The geneticist in me would love to know if he has turned on some old DNA from the gray area of DNA that we have yet to map!).

 

As a scientist, I would encourage Big to keep track of his diet and keep accurate notes. Scientific proof could just be Big! Perhaps get in touch with a study that is doing raw vegan/fruitarian diets (NIH website might have some links to studies being done!). If it is legitimate of his diet, the study will make sure of it (scientists are anal that way ).

 

Geesh, if people who are new to the forum, want to just drink 2 cups of juice and follow his choice of raw veganism/fruitarianism, then go ahead! See for yourself if it works for you or not. If not, don't lump your experience in with a statement that fruitarianism doesn't work (how many people have tried veganism and have come to the same conclusion!). It just didn't work for you because of lots of reasons (your genetics, poor choices made within the frame of food you can take in, etc.).

 

Experimenting is scary some times, but the journey has always intrigued me. I have clung to the scientific dogma to have a foundation to jump off from, but I have gone a long journey from there. Scientific dogma seems to be following, but it is awfully slow.

[Zack]

and perhaps his basal metabolism is so low as to be able to maintain, or perhaps his body has adjusted (over the years) to have novel enzymes do remarkable building of amino acids/muscles out of whatever he drinks. (The geneticist in me would love to know if he has turned on some old DNA from the gray area of DNA that we have yet to map!).

 

Again, why doesn't this work for the millions that starve to death?

 

ridiculous that people are even considering the possibility really, even assuming he is being honest with his diet...

[ChaserHUN]

I think it is possible to build muscles on fruitaran diet, and that you can have all the vitamins and minerals on 3 cups of juice, but where do you get enough calories to burn as energy? like wheatgrass juice is super nutritious too, but there's no calorie in it

[Im Your Man]

Why do others starve to death while bigbwii magically survives?

 

Absolutely true.There are Africans receiving more nutritious food aid than 3 cups of juice a day that are still dying of malnutrition.

 

See what those Africans are eating, some genetically modified grains, with some water contaminated with deadly virus and parasites, will cause malnutrition. And compare this with what Bigbwii is drinking.

 

I like when you say "are still dying of malnutrition", because Americans also die of malnutrition, despite a diet of 3000 calories, even 4000, 5000 calories or 10000 calories still die of malnutrition. It's not about getting 400 calories or 4000, it's more about quality rather than quantity. Getting a small dose of elixir is far better then getting a ton of poisons.