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I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

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and perhaps his basal metabolism is so low as to be able to maintain, or perhaps his body has adjusted (over the years) to have novel enzymes do remarkable building of amino acids/muscles out of whatever he drinks. (The geneticist in me would love to know if he has turned on some old DNA from the gray area of DNA that we have yet to map!).

 

Again, why doesn't this work for the millions that starve to death?

 

ridiculous that people are even considering the possibility really, even assuming he is being honest with his diet...

 

Hmmm...maybe because those who starve to death don't reduce their diet step by step rather than all at once? Or maybe they're not in tune with their bodies and with nature? There are many things of this world that not all humans can comprehend (especially with so much of our society getting addicted to TV and being brainwashed by the media). That doesn't mean it's impossible!

 

It's more ridiculous, by the way, that some people try to shoot down other people's hopes and dreams, just because it's not the "norm" of society. I have people shoot me down all the time and think I'm an idiot, just because I am so different from everyone else. When will people stop criticizing others and just go on living their own lives and using their own brain to determine what's right for themselves, rather than others? No one has to follow a set path. Nature doesn't go by OUR standards...we go by NATURE'S standard! We can't predict nature or say what is so, as we can clearly see with hurricanes, for example. Stupid weather forecasters always predict hurricanes to go one way, and hurricanes don't always go as planned. We can't tell nature how to run its course! Why can't we just accept things and move on, and continue our own lives than trying to poke and prod at everything we disbelieve?

 

Why do others starve to death while bigbwii magically survives?

 

Absolutely true.There are Africans receiving more nutritious food aid than 3 cups of juice a day that are still dying of malnutrition.

 

See what those Africans are eating, some genetically modified grains, with some water contaminated with deadly virus and parasites, will cause malnutrition. And compare this with what Bigbwii is drinking.

 

I like when you say "are still dying of malnutrition", because Americans also die of malnutrition, despite a diet of 3000 calories, even 4000, 5000 calories or 10000 calories still die of malnutrition. It's not about getting 400 calories or 4000, it's more about quality rather than quantity. Getting a small dose of elixir is far better then getting a ton of poisons.

 

lol, I'm Your Man! You took the words right out of my mouth! My husband and I were just talking about the genetically modified foods and contaminated water that Africans must endure. Those are much more unhealthier than a few cups of healthy nutritious revitalizing juice!

 

Exactly! Americans are also dying of malnutrition! Why single out Africans? Just because they're the only ones the media targets? And I so agree! Quality is ALWAYS better than quantity! When did quantity become better off?

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I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

 

Well, that is your choice. *shrugs* Just like everyone has a choice to do what they want, without feeling pressured by the majority.

 

But just so you know, that doesn't make me gullible or ignorant. The only gullible or ignorant person is the one who never questions anything and only follows what others like the media say. I took the time to research this (as I'm sure others here have done or will do), and I have YET to find enough proof to just mark it off. It is definitely still considered possible in my book. But, if I am still considered gullible or ignorant for researching all this on my own, then so be it, right? I don't hold grudges, and will never hate you for thinking what you feel you must think. I'll just move on and continue learning. Life is all about learning experiences, not about being told by others how to believe. I think many people don't understand that in this crazy society.

 

Oh, and I'm a new forum member that still stuck around. *shrugs* You win some, you lose some. In the end, life moves on!

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I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

I don't know if on the worldwide web there's a word spreading about the zero credibility of this website, I don't think so, and I keep seeing most of the new members.

But I'd like that some of you read some of the articles by Herbert Shelton, here , that might enlighten you on some new facets about life. He was a health activist and a philosopher. Read his articles reffering fasting cures, modern malnutrition, etc...

" I am not "scientific" and in the present state of " science" I would be a fool if I were. I'd rather be right than to be " scientific"." - Herbert Shelton.

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I don't know if on the worldwide web there's a word spreading about the zero credibility of this website, I don't think so, and I keep seeing most of the new members.

But I'd like that some of you read some of the articles by Herbert Shelton, here , that might enlighten you on some new facets about life. He was a health activist and a philosopher. Read his articles reffering fasting cures, modern malnutrition, etc...

" I am not "scientific" and in the present state of " science" I would be a fool if I were. I'd rather be right than to be " scientific"." - Herbert Shelton.

 

Hmmm, I'll have to check that out! Sounds interesting! I love researching everything...I learn a LOT that way! A lot more than they teach you in school, that's for sure!

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the main topic here, though, keep it up Bigbwii! I'm interested in seeing how far you go with it! Please do keep us updated!

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Im your man wrote:

 

See what those Africans are eating, some genetically modified grains, with some water contaminated with deadly virus and parasites, will cause malnutrition. And compare this with what Bigbwii is drinking.

 

I like when you say "are still dying of malnutrition", because Americans also die of malnutrition, despite a diet of 3000 calories, even 4000, 5000 calories or 10000 calories still die of malnutrition. It's not about getting 400 calories or 4000, it's more about quality rather than quantity. Getting a small dose of elixir is far better then getting a ton of poisons.

 

I think it has been mentioned, & comes down to the fact that it depends what "juice" you are drinking.

 

I could make some savage concoctions of high calorie, high protein, high fibre, smoothies with fruit juice in them also.That would be nutritious enough to avoid malnutrition & death.

 

If we are talking about 3 cups of apple juice, on its own, for any long period of time, then you will die.If you have any doubts about this, try it, & you will see within months if not weeks that you will be on deaths door.I guarantee that.Its interesting to note that Bigbwii has not mentioned exactly which of these options he is implying.

 

Tigrebella wrote:

 

lol, I'm Your Man! You took the words right out of my mouth! My husband and I were just talking about the genetically modified foods and contaminated water that Africans must endure

 

You & Im your man - not all Africans are eating gm foods & drinking dirty water.Some of them simply dont get enough food! Thats my point!

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If we are talking about 3 cups of apple juice, on its own, for any long period of time, then you will die.If you have any doubts about this, try it, & you will see within months if not weeks that you will be on deaths door.I guarantee that.Its interesting to note that Bigbwii has not mentioned exactly which of these options he is implying.

 

Are you kidding me ? To die after a few weeks or months of juice fasting ? Give me just one example of that, the name of the person and it's written testimony before he or she died. On the other hand, there's many people that fasted on juices or even on nothing for weeks and months. It cured many people from a certain death. Even just on this forum there's many who tried fasting : me, Lean & Green (not only our recent liquid fast, but more extreme fasting before), AndeSuma is doing a long liquid fasting right now too. Outside this website, there's all the activists on a hunger strike to milite for a cause or to protest against injustice. Or the actor Christian Bale did not eat a single crumb of bread nor anything else for 3 months to prepare for the movies "the machinist" and "Rescue Dawn".
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I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

Word.

 

It's the guys you're referring to who have no credibility. They say veganism or vegan athletes or bodybuilders are impossible. People laugh and not stick around? We probably don't need these closed-minded people then. I joined this forum because of the nice people that do stick around.

 

This thread should be locked and just be done with it.

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I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

Word.

 

Well friends, it would appear that we are dinosaurs and the forum is evolving is a way that no longer focuses on vegan bodybuilding (the original name and forum) or vegan bodybuilding and fitness.

 

I had some nice friendships with a few of you but the friends I refer to rarely post anymore. This forum used to be inspirational but we are definitely parting ways these days. In some ways, this is good for me since I'm less tempted to log on or post. My training has intensified and I see many years of competing in my future, so less internet time is a good thing.

 

I'm sure the forum will stay popular and active. Someone will always find inspiration here and that's a good thing.

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Wow! Are we STILL all making a big scene over it? Let's just move on, people. Nothing to complain about here.

 

 

Are you kidding me ? To die after a few weeks or months of juice fasting ? Give me just one example of that, the name of the person and it's written testimony before he or she died. On the other hand, there's many people that fasted on juices or even on nothing for weeks and months. It cured many people from a certain death. Even just on this forum there's many who tried fasting : me, Lean & Green (not only our recent liquid fast, but more extreme fasting before), AndeSuma is doing a long liquid fasting right now too. Outside this website, there's all the activists on a hunger strike to milite for a cause or to protest against injustice. Or the actor Christian Bale did not eat a single crumb of bread nor anything else for 3 months to prepare for the movies "the machinist" and "Rescue Dawn".

 

Don't forget me, too! I'm almost done with my 20 day fast, and plan on doing a 40 day fast in another month or so (and may even do longer fasts in the near future)! It's made me feel more more lighter and happier, and I don't see myself any closer to death anytime soon!

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Zack wrote:

 

I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

 

And yet you are still posting?!

 

If I dont like something, I leave it,

 

I do not keep going back, getting annoyed & moaning...

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Im your man wrote:

 

Are you kidding me ? To die after a few weeks or months of juice fasting

 

Yes, if its just apple juice! The juice feasts you guys are on about are proper fruit smoothies are they not? Yes or no?

 

I did some research on people who have gone without food for extended periods of time:

 

>Medical Doctors Commonly cite 4 to 6 weeks without food

 

>10 Political Prisoners in Ireland Lived 46 to 73 days before succumbing to lack of food

 

>12 individual starvation protestors Two lost tongues, 1 lost feet, 7 on kidney dialysis

 

>Many war prisoners Lived 28 to 40 days with no food

 

>World War II concentration camps With only 300 to 600 calories per day, many thousands did not have enough food to survive more than a few months at best.

 

>Terminally Ill patients Live 10-days to 3-weeks without food depending upon initial heath

 

>Obese Can live from 3-weeks up to 25-weeks and more without food depending upon initial health and amount of fat

 

>Mahatma Gandhi Survived a 3-week fast while in his 70's

 

I rest my case.

 

I am saying that Bigbwii could not have got, or maintained the physique he is showing us on his photos, drinking 3 cups of fruit juice a day! I can't believe you are disagreeing with this! If it was possible to build muscle & be healthy and energetic on such a small amount of fruit juice, why would I & all the other bulkers spend a small fortune each week on big diets? I'll tell you why, because its the only way to do it! Trust me, I've tried eating less, its easier, less time consuming & cheaper but it doesnt gain you muscle or bulk like what Bigbwii is showing us in the photos! I truly wish it was!

 

If you are going to continue arguing with me about this then I cannot respond any more because it is becoming increasingly irritating, & other than in this particular thread, I like you buddy, & think you are an intelligent person.

 

Don't forget me, too! I'm almost done with my 20 day fast, and plan on doing a 40 day fast in another month or so

 

Based on the above quoted examples, if you are planning on not eating for 40 days, I would advise against it.

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I never said I actually believe BigBwii, I'm just saying things that could help us understand. I want to believe. I think it is possible, but I don't have the irrefutable proof yet -it cannot be proved wrong and that must therefore be accepted, until we prove it's wrong. Like I said, I want to believe. I'm just citing examples of similar cases. One thing is sure, it's that the human body is a very amazing machine, with surprising capacities to adapt and survive. But one aspect we haven't mentioned yet, is the psychic. An anorexic eating just 1 carrot or apple per day, minded to lose weight, may become skinny, they're often repellent to even eat that carrot or apple, so the nutrients may not be fully assimilated, due to psychic blocking. But another person eating the same food while enjoying it, the body will assimilate all nutrients with optimal potential.

 

Your examples of "Political Prisoners, war prisoners, and in World War II concentration camps... Those people are tortured to death, maltreated, or completely physically and psychologically exhausted from constant immense stress.

 

The "Terminally Ill patients Live 10-days to 3-weeks without food depending upon initial heath", there's also other terminally illed patients that have survived with a fasting, followed with small quantities of living foods, and their diseases vanished, after years of modern treatments with recent technologies all failed. They've been diagnosed with "incurable disease", doctors estimated less than a few months to live, bu fasting was their only hope. In those cases, fasting especially mean : no poisons.

The "individual starvation protestors Two lost tongues, 1 lost feet, 7 on kidney dialysis " you're talking about, you don't say after how long.

Also, you cite examples of 10 or 12 prisonners, but there's hundreds and thousands that survive for years like that, forced to eat 4 or 5 grains of rice per day, or to eat worms.

 

For a fasting to be beneficial, it has to be conducted under the right circumstances, like in a fasting center in California, not in the middle of a war with bullets that flies from all sides. You need to be calm, walking under a nice afternoon sun, drinking fresh water, not in a dark cell, attacked by dogs, or guardians who administer you some drugs.

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Zack wrote:

 

I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

 

I can't really believe some of you are so gullible/ignorant..

 

This thread is a good reason why NEW forum members don't stick around, and why this forum is laughed at and has zero credibility.

 

And yet you are still posting?!

 

If I dont like something, I leave it,

 

I do not keep going back, getting annoyed & moaning...

 

He's gone already. Again, WHY must we continue this? We have all tried to drop it, yet you still continue. *sighs*

 

Based on the above quoted examples, if you are planning on not eating for 40 days, I would advise against it.

 

Sorry, but that's not proof enough for me. You really need more better proof than that to talk-down a smart person like myself. Trust me, I research both good and bad, and know what I'm doing! And as I said, I'm definitely ONLY getting better from this! Though, if I do die from fasting, like you so claim, then at least I'll go peacefully and in tune with my body, rather than a diseased brainwashed person of this society!

 

I never said I actually believe BigBwii, I'm just saying things that could help us understand. I want to believe. I think it is possible, but I don't have the irrefutable proof yet -it cannot be proved wrong and that must therefore be accepted, until we prove it's wrong. Like I said, I want to believe. I'm just citing examples of similar cases. One thing is sure, it's that the human body is a very amazing machine, with surprising capacities to adapt and survive. But one aspect we haven't mentioned yet, is the psychic. An anorexic eating just 1 carrot or apple per day, minded to lose weight, may become skinny, they're often repellent to even eat that carrot or apple, so the nutrients may not be fully assimilated, due to psychic blocking. But another person eating the same food while enjoying it, the body will assimilate all nutrients with optimal potential.

 

Your examples of "Political Prisoners, war prisoners, and in World War II concentration camps... Those people are tortured to death, maltreated, or completely physically and psychologically exhausted from constant immense stress.

 

The "Terminally Ill patients Live 10-days to 3-weeks without food depending upon initial heath", there's also other terminally illed patients that have survived with a fasting, followed with small quantities of living foods, and their diseases vanished, after years of modern treatments with recent technologies all failed. They've been diagnosed with "incurable disease", doctors estimated less than a few months to live, bu fasting was their only hope. In those cases, fasting especially mean : no poisons.

The "individual starvation protestors Two lost tongues, 1 lost feet, 7 on kidney dialysis " you're talking about, you don't say after how long.

Also, you cite examples of 10 or 12 prisonners, but there's hundreds and thousands that survive for years like that, forced to eat 4 or 5 grains of rice per day, or to eat worms.

 

For a fasting to be beneficial, it has to be conducted under the right circumstances, like in a fasting center in California, not in the middle of a war with bullets that flies from all sides. You need to be calm, walking under a nice afternoon sun, drinking fresh water, not in a dark cell, attacked by dogs, or guardians who administer you some drugs.

 

I'm Your Man has yet got you AGAIN! Sorry, but he's right...you don't have good enough valid proof! Is that the best you could come up with? Come on!

 

 

 

Anything else we must complain about, rather than end this already?

 

 

*reminds self that if I go "extreme" like Bigbwii, to just avoid mentioning on the forum, since so many are obviously so biased about it and would attack me down too*

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you don't have good enough valid proof! Is that the best you could come up with? Come on! :

 

At least he found the "proof" why you might be able to fast for 40 days:

 

Obese Can live from 3-weeks up to 25-weeks and more without food depending upon initial health and amount of fat

 

It's a different story if a slim, low-bodyfat and active person fasts for a longer period of time. You should try the 40 days when you're down to 150 pounds or whatever. I don't want to say it's impossible or anything, the science so far just suggests that it might not be the healthiest thing to do.

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you don't have good enough valid proof! Is that the best you could come up with? Come on! :

 

At least he found the "proof" why you might be able to fast for 40 days:

 

Obese Can live from 3-weeks up to 25-weeks and more without food depending upon initial health and amount of fat

 

It's a different story if a slim, low-bodyfat and active person fasts for a longer period of time. You should try the 40 days when you're down to 150 pounds or whatever. I don't want to say it's impossible or anything, the science so far just suggests that it might not be the healthiest thing to do.

 

What proof? Obesity? That doesn't mean anything. Skinny people have gone on longer fasts than that. So I don't consider his "proof" valid!

 

Oh, and just so you know, yes, I'm definitely gonna go on long fasts even when I'm down to 150 pounds. You can't say that weight plays a major role in it if you don't even know if it's possible or not for a skinny person to survive doing fasts. Everyone has their own opinion on things. I don't expect you to think it's possible, though I do expect you to let me continue believing what I believe is possible. Nobody has to persuade me to do anything, because in the end, it's MY life and MY decision.

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TigreBella wrote:

 

I'm Your Man has yet got you AGAIN! Sorry, but he's right...you don't have good enough valid proof! Is that the best you could come up with? Come on!

 

It is alot better than the examples you have given, which so far are 0.Also I dont think its a case of being 'got' by Im Your Man.We are both intelligent guys & I enjoy discussions with him because overall he uses logic.If I think he has a valid point which disproves my point I am happy to concede that he is right.Which on this occasion I am not, but we would not fall out over this

 

Sorry, but that's not proof enough for me. You really need more better proof than that to talk-down a smart person like myself

 

At no point did I "talk down" to you.I said that if you were planning to not eat for 40 days I would advise against it.Considering you are now making things up, I am no longer responding to you.I am sorry that you have taken it to this point.

 

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What proof? Obesity? That doesn't mean anything. Skinny people have gone on longer fasts than that. So I don't consider his "proof" valid!

 

Well, it does mean a whole lot. Just think of all the animals that go on hibernation. If they're mammals they have to gain massive amounts of fat in order to survive their long-term fast during the winter. If they don't have that fat they die.

Fat storage in the body is a way of conserving energy, and this energy is for the "hard times". for example: a long-term fast.

How can you say, "that doesn't mean anything"?!

 

Oh, and just so you know, yes, I'm definitely gonna go on long fasts even when I'm down to 150 pounds. You can't say that weight plays a major role in it if you don't even know if it's possible or not for a skinny person to survive doing fasts. I don't expect you to think it's possible, though I do expect you to let me continue believing what I believe is possible.

 

Please stick to what I said:

I don't want to say it's impossible or anything

Yes, I believe it's possible for a skinny person to do a 40 day fast. But possible doesn't mean healthy!!! That's my only point, you don't have to lay other words in my mouth.

 

And, yes, I can say that weight plays a major role because it's simple biology.

Yes, both overweight and skinny people may do a 40 day fast, BUT it is easier for the overweight because they have that huge energy storage.

 

In the end, you can do whatever you want and whatever it is I'm totally happy about it.

But as someone who has some knowledge about nutrition and biology, I just want to give advise, as we're on a message board. I think it would be a shame, if everyone was applauding your fasting-plans and nobody tells you that it might not be that healthy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I generally don't read this board, but I noticed that Bigbwii had posted and thought I would check to see what he is up to.

 

I apologize in advance if this offends anyone. I don't like offending people, and that is not my intention. But I think it might happen anyway.

 

My partner and I read some stuff about raw foods and found it interesting and decided to incorporate more raw foods into our diet. I figure that's a good thing.

 

However, as I read more about it, through books, websites, and forums, I started to realize that there are some crazy raw foods advocates out there. Yes, I know that not all raw foods advocates are crazy. But a lot were. They advocated things that were completely un-scientific and unbelievable. As a researcher, that's something I just can't deal with, and it put me completely off reading any more.

 

Let me say right now that I absolutely believe that it's possible to be healthy on a raw foods diet. I also believe it's possible to fast for periods of time and not die. Lean and Green did an extended liquid diet. I have no trouble at all believing that he actually did that. However, he drank a variety of liquids (including veg smoothies). And he lost weight, though I am quite sure he was drinking far more than 800ml of fruit juice.

 

Basically, the point is that just because some raw food claims are true and some raw foods diets are tenable, doesn't mean that they all are. The reason this all set off is that Bigbwii said he is drinking 0-2 cups of fruit juice per day and consuming nothing else. Note that he said 0 to 2, so the 800ml that has been floating around is actually the max he has in a day and some days he consumes nothing at all, not even water. Now, I don't actually doubt that this can be done for a limited period of time. But apparently he has been doing this for a long period of time. I don't actually recall his saying how long but some people seem to have gotten the impression that it is for a year or more. And that he has maintained his weight while doing this.

 

I think that most of us "cooked food eaters" distinguish between raw food claims that seem reasonable and those that don't. We generally accept claims that are reasonable, but have trouble this those that are not. If someone said he eats 2,000 calories a day of raw fruit and veg and maintains his weight, I am sure few of us would have reason to doubt that. But if someone says he consumes 200 calories (liquid or solid, raw or cooked--wouldn't matter) a day and maintains his weight, many of us are going to have serious problems believing it.

 

Why? Because the first claim is pretty consistent with what we know about how things work. The second is not, not at all. It's almost like someone claiming that he is not affected by gravity.

 

So then some say that science actually can't prove anything, so how do we know it's not possible? This interpretation of science is wrong and based on misinterpretation or overgeneralizing of things that are true about science. Yes, science can't really prove much. "Proof" in science is elusive and we therefore talk about differing levels of evidence. However, to then suggest that because of this, we can't really say whether one option is more likely than the other is completely a misinterpretation of lack of proof. It's kind of like creationists who say that evolution is not a fact, therefore we shouldn't really believe it. Yes, it is true that evolution is not a fact or a law. Little in science is. But to make the leap to saying that it therefore is not believable is totally wrong. There are different levels of evidence for things studied in science, and the evidence for evolution is really strong.

 

Is there disagreement in science on some things? Of course! Will a high fiber diet prevent colon cancer? It's not clear--there's some evidence yes and some evidence no. But just because some things are contentious does not mean that everything is and that science can't be quite clear on some things. Within science there are things that are so close to proven that there's not much reason to doubt it. If science couldn't tell us anything about the world, we wouldn't have cars, TVs, radios, computers, internet, airplanes, the Large Hadron Collider... I could go on forever. Science tells us loads about the world.

 

To hold the view that science is not useful is completely and absolutely ridiculous. Sorry, it just is. The scientific method is the primary way in which we understand the world.

 

This is getting long-winded, but I am trying to explain why some of us cooked foodies get so frustrated with some raw foodies. I have no problem with people who follow raw food diets. I do have a huge problem with people who are anti-science and readily believe things that are completely counter to things that we have very strong evidence for through science. (When I say I have a problem with people I don't mean I dislike them or anything--it just means that I find I can't have any kind of meaningful conversation at all because we are coming from completely different points of view and I find it very frustrating.) There are raw foodists out there who would not believe highly unlikely claims like this, I know. The stunning thing to us is that there are any who would!

 

Now, I don't recall Bigbwii saying how long he has been on this juice diet, so I don't want to be giving him a hard time here. Maybe it's been only a week or something, in which case it's possible. However, from my reading it seems like other people have stepped in to say it's totally possible to drink 0-2 cups of juice a day for a year and be healthy and maintain one's weight. Is it impossible? I don't like to say anything is completely impossible--it's not completely impossible that there's an invisible elephant on the roof across from my window. Is it so unlikely that it may as well be impossible? Yeah.

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No problem...nice to see you again

 

I strongly follow science, logic, practicality, sensibility and reason too. That is just what makes the most sense to me and science has answers for so many things. That is why I have so many problems with most or all religions too. Too much stuff is just made up and totally unrealistic and couldn't have possibly happened.

 

I actually work closely with the raw food community and I know there are some great people as well as some very strange people. That is likely true for any "group" of people, but more so in religious communities and strong niche communities such as what is viewed as an extreme eating style.

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