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Do you understand what I mean when I say that calories are a unit of measurement? It's the same as when I say that feet, metres, miles, pounds, ounces, and so on are units of measurement. Until you understand this, you will misunderstand other things that I say. What I am going to do is stop referring to calories at all and just refer to energy so that what I am trying to say may be clear even if you don't understand what calorie means.

 

Yes, the body need nutrients. The body also needs energy. By the way, "nutrient" is a very general term and basically refers to anything that the body needs to grow and function. So saying that we need nutrients is pretty redundant as nutrients are defined by the fact that we need them.

 

Nutrients that the body needs include carbohydrates, fats, proteins (amino acids), vitamins, and minerals. We also need energy. The nutrients that provide energy are carbohydrates, fats, and protein. Without energy, it does not matter how much of the other nutrients we take in--the body will not be able to use them. Remember how I said the body needs a certain amount of energy to function even if it's just lying in bed the entire day? That's energy it needs for all the organs to function and for the body to do all the amazing things it does to rebuild itself. Think of these nutrients that you are talking about as building materials. And think of energy as the construction workers. You can provide your body with as much building material as you like, but unless you also provide the construction workers, nothing is going to be rebuilt--the building materials will just lie around unused.

 

In reality, it is hard to get sufficient levels of all nutrients without also getting enough energy. Unless you take pills, but as you said, that's not an ideal way to go about it. So basically if you are consuming enough whole foods to provide all the vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and essential fats that you need, it's pretty likely that you're eating a sufficient amount of food/energy.

 

That does imply that a diet consisting of a small amount of fruit juice will be insufficient not just in energy, but in other nutrients as well. I'm quite sure that it would be.

 

In your example, both bodybuilders will experience malnutrition, though of different sorts. The first (the one living on big macs) will have enough energy but not enough other nutrients. The second will not have enough energy and also most likely not enough other nutrients either.

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Wow I thought this thread was dead.And suddenly over one weekend we have another 3 pages, about telepathy & what a calorie is!

 

What is a calorie? A calorie is determined by the amount of energy in Kilo joules it is made up of.

4.186 Kilo joules make up a calorie.Kilo joules are what scientists measure energy in.Example, my waist is 33 inches.Inches are a measurement of length.Kilo joules are a measurement of energy.

In all known avenues of experiment, we need a certain number of Kilo joules a day to fulfill our basic bodily functions of breathing & heart rate etc.If we do not give our lungs & heart enough calories to fulfil their basic functions, our body will start using our fat stores to provide the energy.When those fat stores run out, our heart, lungs & other organs will stop working & we will die because of this.

 

Telepathy, & other things that do not neatly fall into the current sphere of science are all VERY REAL..For centuries, maps drawn by Western cultures projected the world as a flat area.The leading sailors, explorers, philosophers & scientists had no doubt that the world was indeed flat.Then some people who were watching "X-Files" suggested that the world was a round globe.The scientists laughed at them & said "Hey you crazy people, stop watching X-Files" They got so annoyed in the end, that they ended up killing some of the round globe theorists.

 

I personally have seen levitation with my own eyes.My girlfriend of the time also witnessed this.People who claim it is "coincidence" have never witnessed anything like it, so find it hard to believe.But they should accept that because of their lack of experience, that they are not fully qualified to comment on the subject, their opinion counts, but not a great deal.As the years go on, more & more things outside the current sphere of science, will begin to be engrossed by the widening of this sphere.

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It was about 10 years ago & happened in my bedroom with just me and the gf.Our pet rat Ezekiel floated through the air unaided for about 3 feet.Seriously.

 

I was stoned but my gf was a boring sober person & she saw it too.

 

So sorry, no vid.I appreciate you doubt I am telling the truth.That is understandable.Theres nothing I can do to change that.But it proves to me, the person who saw it, that it is a real phenomena.One day, it will be recognised & recorded to science.Until then I regard myself as being very lucky to have observed something that you all havn't, & being possibly hundreds of years ahead of common knowledge.

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Do you understand what I mean when I say that calories are a unit of measurement?

Yes.

Think of these nutrients that you are talking about as building materials. And think of energy as the construction workers. You can provide your body with as much building material as you like, but unless you also provide the construction workers, nothing is going to be rebuilt--the building materials will just lie around unused.

I'd say the construction workers are the enzymes/ bioflavonoids and the glucose is the transporter, since going raw my body is healing at an incredible rate.

In reality, it is hard to get sufficient levels of all nutrients without also getting enough energy.

True but calories are still not all that important.

 

The guy eating 5 big macs would use up more than 500 calories in digesting each burger, science will even say you use up more calories digesting food than you do in the gym so whats the point in counting calories if they do not give us energy, in fact calories use up our energy.

 

Remember the matrix when humans were enslaved into a computer system and used as batteries? We generate energy, yes fair enough we need nutritious calories but its not the calories that give us energy nor do they grow cells.

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Do you understand what I mean when I say that calories are a unit of measurement?

Yes.

Think of these nutrients that you are talking about as building materials. And think of energy as the construction workers. You can provide your body with as much building material as you like, but unless you also provide the construction workers, nothing is going to be rebuilt--the building materials will just lie around unused.

I'd say the construction workers are the enzymes/ bioflavonoids and the glucose is the transporter, since going raw my body is healing at an incredible rate.

In reality, it is hard to get sufficient levels of all nutrients without also getting enough energy.

True but calories are still not all that important.

 

The guy eating 5 big macs would use up more than 500 calories in digesting each burger, science will even say you use up more calories digesting food than you do in the gym so whats the point in counting calories if they do not give us energy, in fact calories use up our energy.

 

Remember the matrix when humans were enslaved into a computer system and used as batteries? We generate energy, yes fair enough we need nutritious calories but its not the calories that give us energy nor do they grow cells.

From the way you talk about calories, it doesn't seem that you understand what they are at all.

 

Basically, everything you said here is incorrect, but I'm not going to go into detail about why as I think I have already done so multiple times. Maybe someone else can explain better than I have been able to.

 

Regarding the Matrix: first of all, it's a movie--fiction. Second, the humans were being FED. Remember, they were being fed the blended up remains of the dead humans? The humans were not creating energy. They were transforming energy from food (which machines could not use) to heat (which the machines could use). Even make-believe humans in comas need energy from food.

Edited by FormicaLinoleum
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With al these posts about calories, I'm surprised nobody really said what it is really. Calories don't measure the amount of energy of a food, it measures how much energy it produces when it is burned in fire. Foods are living things. We can't survive long on eating only ashes, dead foods that are burned, cooked, fried. In fact, we can survive on eating 100% cooked diet, but it takes 2-3 generations (we know for cats at least, experimented on 300 cats on living food diet, 300 cats on dead food diet) to become completely sick, infertile and disappear, the mothers will die while giving birth to unborn babie or they will die shortly after being too weak. The amount of calories is not important, thenature of the food itself is, whole foods like apples, etc... Big Macs are not even a food, it's a product.

A calories only tells the amount of heat (measured by another measurement in F degrees or C degrees, etc...) a food produces when cooked, it doesn't say anything about the living food.

 

Nutrition "science" is very inexact. The biological value (BV) of proteins is measured by isolating one protein of a food (each food has usually 2 proteins or more) and experimenting on rats. We can know the amino acids profile of a protein by just passing it through a scanner and the computer analyze it and gives the list. But for the BV, it gives only the value of one protein, not the whole food. Therefore they say that, for instance, almond is an incomplete protein, because they only look at one of its proteins at a time, but what they don't consider is that each of the two proteins found in almonds completes eachother.

 

Today we dissect and separe everything to make oils, protein isolate, synthetic vitamins and other supplements. All these things don't work because they' re incomplete, it lost all the synergy and perfection it had when it was a whole. Since it doesn't work the body cannot use it and therefore it is a toxic waste. Don't take synthetic vitamins in pills, eat strawberries. The body can use organic salt but rejects inorganic salt like a poison by tears and sweat.

 

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The amount of calories is not important

OK, I am completely with the idea that the body reacts differently to different types of food. I am open to the assertion that the body is less stressed by digesting and using whole foods than it is by digesting processed foods and that this has an effect on the body. I also think it's rather likely that when scientists try to create isolates of substances from food, those isolates do not have the same effect that the substance has when it's consumed through whole foods.

 

However, when I read something like the above I completely shut down to anything the person who wrote that has to say. If you said "it is not only the amount of calories that are important" I could be like "OK, he has a point". But to say that the amount of calories does not matter at all? Really?? Come on.

 

This is what I am talking about when it comes to dealing with some raw food people. There are some very sensible things in the raw foods message. I do think that whole foods are the best nutritionally (though I think that cooking some is fine and that some foods are more useful cooked). But then some raw foodists will say some things that are so disconnected from reality that it throws everything else into question.

 

I wish raw food people could distinuish between the sensible and the ridiculous. And I wish that raw food people who don't believe the ridiculous stuff would challenge these things when they hear them from their fellow raw fooders.

 

(I am sorry if my frustration is becoming evident in my writing.)

Edited by FormicaLinoleum
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Calorie is a word used to descibe something we dont fully know the nature of, so trying to define it exactly as you guys are trying to is futile ie: pointless.

 

Im your man is right, calories are measured by burning the food in fire.The last time I checked I dint have a fire in my belly.Also he is right in saying that it does not give an indication of what he terms the living food.

 

It does however give us an idea of how much is in a food type.

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The amount of calories is not important

 

However, when I read something like the above I completely shut down to anything the person who wrote that has to say. If you said "it is not only the amount of calories that are important" I could be like "OK, he has a point". But to say that the amount of calories does not matter at all? Really?? Come on.

 

eheh

 

what I mean is that for our own good, it doesn't serve anything to count calories of what we eat, we only need to look at whole foods that are nutrient dense, and it will inevitably also contain calories.

But if we look at calories first, we will end up with Big Macs, bacon, butter, etc.

 

What I meant is: calories are less important. What counts is the food itself, not the calories it represents.

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There's a huge gulf between saying that a calorie is not a completely precise system of measurement to saying that the amount of calories one consumes isn't important at all or that calories don't give energy but rather use energy.

 

I don't think that either Richard or I has claimed that the measurement of energy in calories is faultless. All we've been saying is that humans need to get a certain amount of energy from food in order to stay alive. That really should not be controversial.

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The amount of calories is not important

 

However, when I read something like the above I completely shut down to anything the person who wrote that has to say. If you said "it is not only the amount of calories that are important" I could be like "OK, he has a point". But to say that the amount of calories does not matter at all? Really?? Come on.

 

eheh

 

what I mean is that for our own good, it doesn't serve anything to count calories of what we eat, we only need to look at whole foods that are nutrient dense, and it will inevitably also contain calories.

But if we look at calories first, we will end up with Big Macs, bacon, butter, etc.

 

What I meant is: calories are less important. What counts is the food itself, not the calories it represents.

That makes much more sense. Yes, we should eat a variety of whole foods. And most people don't need to count calories as long as they eat sensibly. In fact, needing to count calories is very rare. If you are losing weight and you don't want to, eat more. If you are gaining weight and you don't want to, eat less.

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This is basic thermodynamics. A calorie is a measurement of of work, like Watt or Joule. For us who has had the privilege of free school this should not be this complicated. This is ridiculous.

 

I have a hard time believing anyone making biochemistral conclusion about "cleansing" of their body when they don't know the fundamentals of physics.

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But how come we don't get energy from empty (or whole) calories, surely then calories are not important.

 

Guess what sprinters (100-400m) eat before a race....

They'll have a freaking white toast bread with jam on it! It's processed, easy digestable, full of sugars => yes, empty calories. But it gives energy to BURN fast...

 

Personally, I hate the idea that world class athletes actually do that to perform better, but it's not about health at that moment, they need ENERGY.

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But how come we don't get energy from empty (or whole) calories, surely then calories are not important.

 

Guess what sprinters (100-400m) eat before a race....

They'll have a freaking white toast bread with jam on it! It's processed, easy digestable, full of sugars => yes, empty calories. But it gives energy to BURN fast...

 

Personally, I hate the idea that world class athletes actually do that to perform better, but it's not about health at that moment, they need ENERGY.

 

I bet they'd do better if they chewed on a piece of watermelon.

 

This is basic thermodynamics. A calorie is a measurement of of work, like Watt or Joule. For us who has had the privilege of free school this should not be this complicated. This is ridiculous.

 

I have a hard time believing anyone making biochemistral conclusion about "cleansing" of their body when they don't know the fundamentals of physics.

 

The age old Engineering & Physics report

 

I come from a strong analytical scientific background and agree with what offense is saying.. BUT... I also believe there are things beyond the ordinary physics & biochemistry.

 

E=mc2.

 

The Theory of Relativity.

 

Breakdown of the Time-Space Continuum.

 

Seeing someone lose twelve years of stress and months of insomnia in 25 mins of yogic pranayam & meditation techniques. (If anyone has read Autobiography of a Yogi it would register)

 

Life Force or "Prana" is not a matter of QUANTITY but one of QUALITATIVE CONVERSION of Energy.

 

And I am not talking energy in the Physical Measurable "Watt" sense.

 

There have been Yogis and Masters who have spent entire lives without food. Yes, it does not compute but at the same time.. a lot of things that do not compute at one stage, do later on.

 

Be it, earth being round not flat, All planets being round while asteroids being Jagged. Since there is nothing in space to cause friction, why would planets that are said to have come from pieces broken from the Sun... become round.

 

Be it man being able to fly.

 

Be it Germs, Molecules, Atoms, Protons, Electrons, Quarks.. and new subatomic particles. Big Bang experiments, Anti matter.

 

Everytime we make a RULE... That RULE is broken or bent after sometime by someone. People deny it.. then critical mass of understanding & awareness is achieved and we accept it. Then it becomes so commonplace that people do not understand it at all.. but take it as it is.

 

If we are create in the Image of the Divine Spirit (not trying to be religious.. but scientific), there is nothing not possible for us.

 

There are no absolutes in a world of relatives.

 

To vouch for one little incident that I had similar to Big B.. Not the same.. But it was one none the less.

 

I used to play volleyball for 2-3 hours on Saturdays in the Houston Heat last summer. Typical pre game & throughout would be some raw or protein energy bars and gatorade etc. From 10/11 to 1pm we'd play and at the end of it i would be DRAINED and HUNGRY (Famished... empty stomach that would say.. I WANT TO EAT).. I'd take a shower and go stuff myself at an All you can eat India Buffet. Then I'd come home and SNORE...

 

There was this ONE TIME that I ended up having a small chunk of watermelon (lets say a 1/8th Corner Cut) and went to play. Funny thing was that I never felt the kind of HEAT & HEAVINESS on my head that day. My need & craving for water was minimal. I did not have gatorade or energy bars that day so I ate the Watermelon (cutting is such a chore).

 

The funny thing is after that game, even though my stomach was empty, I was not feeling DRAINED or FAMISHED. I did not have this compelling need for FOOD... the Dying Need to Eat.

 

Another time I was working from home and was busy so forgot my lunches & dinners. I just had 2 (medium large mexican) mangoes that day (One at 11 /12 & another 7/8ish). The funny thing was I was surprised that I did not feel CRAVINGS that day or end of the night.

 

These things happened by chance.

 

Lately, I was in an Ashram (lookup online) doing a lot of Pranayama (Life Force Breating) and Meditation and to add to that lot of walking around a scenic but hilly terrain. Basically doing more WORK/ WALKING etc than my usual Desk Job. The thing is I ATE LESS.

Way less.

 

One thing that is taught is to chew your food really slow with a 100% MIND FOCUS on that sensations in your mouth. Feel it, Sense it, Taste it.

 

Most of the times we CHUG food down our throat. We do not RELISH it for all the Flavors and Energy it is there to PROVIDE US.

 

Tons of other varied experiences that would not stand standard physics. Meta Physics and Super Physics come into play.

 

Why is it that some Tai Chi masters who are little and less muscle can be more powerful that Big Muscle guys. Not talking in terms of Fighting Skill...

 

We are ENERGY BEINGS. Our Energy Chakras work in ways that Western Science has not been able to quantify.

 

Foods need to be gauged in PRANIC (Life Force) value. Hence overall PRANA conversion is dependent on the SOURCE FOODS & the ACCEPTOR of those foods. Hence, some (so called) Calories are more efficient and cleaner than other calories.

 

Which is why... Meat is the lowest form of Prana.. Because it has NONE. It is DEAD.

 

I do not think everyone and not even Big B can move to such a DIET over night. It is an EXTREMELY TOUGH process to undertake. To BELIEVE or Not TO BELIEVE is your choice.

 

I'd love to work towards it, but the kind of diligence and discipline that might be required is something I might not give in today. I pray I can.

 

For real skeptics.. I'd say... Spend 10-15 days with Big.. Monitor his diet and see for yourself. I cannot verify how true or untrue he is... But I do believe in a lot of things western science says is not.

 

Maybe he's a BSer.. One possibility.

What if he is NOT.. What would be the ramifications of that? Would it break your reality? Could you ever believe it?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_energy

 

Food energy is the amount of energy in food that is available through digestion. The values for food energy are expressed in kilojoules (kJ) or food Calories (kcal).

 

One food Calorie (1 kcal or 1,000 calories) is the amount of digestively available food energy (heat) that will raise the temperature of one kilogram of water one degree Celsius. Some advocate the convention of the capitalizing the C in these so that one food Calorie is equal to 1000 lowercase calories, but that convention is not generally followed.

 

So by burning something to heat water you figure out its NUTRIENT ENERGY VALUE to a Human Being ?? Do you see the FLAW in that? I am freaking suprised that I MYSELF.. NEVER EVER looked up this information ever.

 

I used to wonder how they took something that has Bio-Chemical significance and convert it into a unit of "Thermodynamics" Physics?

I guess it was so prevalent and commonplace and followed by everyone that EVEN I MYSELF.. took it for granted. Damn!... What a fool I've been.

 

And then use that Unit of Physics to determine the kinds of and amounts of food we need to / should eat?

And then come up with variations of Calorific Ratios (20:40:40, Low Fat, Low Carb) for Fats, Proteins & Carbs that we should eat over the decades?

And then come up with good & bad fats?

Empty calories?

Good & Bad sugars?

Do you see the fundamental unit of measurement is flawed.. It has not even been questioned.. and We INCLUDING ME are following this crap.

 

And I ask this of a crowd that chooses to realize past the common and defy the Meat Lobbies. Well here is another BLUNDER... Are you going to step up and break the limits again...?

 

This is a perfect example of certain things that become so common place that they are taken for FACT and from that Stupid Fact a 1000 of other theories are created.

 

I think Modern Western scientists spent too much time playing with Flasks & Bunsen Burners that everything is MEASURABLE only in some LABORATORY INSTRUMENT. If it cannot be measured or observed from their experimental point of view then it does not EXIST???

 

So, before the creation of Wireless Frequency sensors, Infrared, UV rays etc did not EXIST?

 

This is where Western Science needs to realize that everything they discover and measure is SUBJECT to FUTURE shift in paradigm.

I remember reading about atoms & protons etc in school. Guess what they came up with quarks & anti matter. What next??

 

Fun part.. atoms, etc and Theory of Relativity had been discussed in the Vedas thousands of years ago. Might I mention Einstein was a vegetarian and a reader of Bhagvad Gita & other ancient scriptures. At higher levels.. Science & Spirituality merge together.. and become one. And the Matrix is not FICTION... there is a realistic source to it.

 

Each food item has a specific metabolizable energy intake (MEI). Normally this value is obtained by multiplying the total amount of energy contained in a food item by 85%, which is the typical amount of energy actually obtained by a human after the digestive processes have been completed.

 

And how did they come up with that?

 

Only carbohydrates (including fiber), fats, proteins, organic acids, polyols, and ethanol contain calories. All foods are made up of a combination of these five nutrients. Everything else in food is non-caloric, including (but not limited to) water, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, caffeine, spices and natural flavors, and enzymes.

 

So all the minerals & enzymes have no ENERGY EFFECT ? Because they do not BURN & heat water? Do you see the FLAW in that?

 

Try having a piece of watermelon low in Calories or Coconut Water low in calories and see how that feels.

 

PS: So from their point of view I should Drink Jet Fuel & Eat Charchoal.. Ah! thats all inorganic & poisonous.. How about dried Wood? Its the best organic thing to heat water.

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Some good points.

 

So, before the creation of Wireless Frequency sensors, Infrared, UV rays etc did not EXIST?

 

This is where Western Science needs to realize that everything they discover and measure is SUBJECT to FUTURE shift in paradigm.

 

I remember reading about atoms & protons etc in school. Guess what they came up with quarks & anti matter. What next??

 

Fun part.. atoms, etc and Theory of Relativity had been discussed in the Vedas thousands of years ago. Might I mention Einstein was a vegetarian and a reader of Bhagvad Gita & other ancient scriptures. At higher levels.. Science & Spirituality merge together.. and become one. And the Matrix is not FICTION... there is a realistic source to it.

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http://www.exo.net/~pauld/activities/food/countingcalories.html

 

I am not supporting or disputing this piece. What I am trying to point out is READ between the lines on how EXPERIMENTS are conducted with certain ASSUMPTIONS.

 

Does burning equate 100% M (Mass) > E (Energy) conversion?

You forget.. we also burned Oxygen (It has a mass), Item Burnt (Has Mass) and released Gases (Have Mass), Released Ash etc Debri (Mass), Release HEAT energy.

 

If you've studied physics you'll remember in school they say that All Molecules vibrate differently... in Solids, Liquids & Gases.

 

I think ANY PROCESS just changes the VIBRATIONAL aspects of the FINAL ENERGY CARRIER (Assuming its Atoms or Sub Atomic Protons / Electrons /Neutrons etc + Quarks).

 

Be it..

BURNING:

SPEAKING: Mechanical Vocal Movements create SOUND.. Now has that energy disappeared into vacum? Its there in a vibrational energy that we cant tap to convert to electricity yet.. Someday.. But we can RECORD it onto a Magnetic Tape.

PLANTS & PHOTOSYNTHESIS: Plants create (oops.. convert) energy from Earth, Water, Light (Sky & Fire), Air elements.

 

Its the one best ENERGY > TO > UTILIZABLE MASS process of nature.

 

I am not claiming the following for a fact.. Just a thought. And given the laws of nature, most things are simple & harmonic even if complicated to the naked eye.

 

DIGESTION:

 

AIR + WATER + FOOD + SUNLIGHT > HUMAN > ENERGY (MENTAL & PHYSICAL) + WASTE

(LHS = Left Hand Side)

Now if we look at LHS > RHS, we hope that to maximize ENERGY ABSORPTION (as per Law of Conservation of Energy) following things must be conducive:

1) Minimal Waste excreted from the system

2) Efficient Human Digestive System

3) Efficient Food Inputs must be conducive to 1 & 2

 

Now if you look at different food items realize that Fruits make you feel empty in the stomach pretty fast.. Fast digestion, efficient energy conversion & LESS waste (You don't crap as much or feel like crapping as much when eating a MEAL that is HEAVY / LARGE in SIZE and Less in Energy Conversion Efficiency)..

 

Thats the LOGICAL MATH.

 

The EXPERIENTIAL is MORE IMPORTANT. How you feel during & after that ITEM CONSUMED. Elevated? Light? Refreshed? Energized or Sluggish?

 

I think this SHOULD BE the best EXPERIENTIAL benchmark to determine the best foods for our system.

 

BOTTOMLINE QUESTION: Does burning food to raise water temperature equate energy conversion by DIGESTING food via chewing and digestive processes (saliva, stomach acid, pancreatic enzymes, liver... etc.. intestines (where nutrients are absorbed into the blood stream) )? So, how do "burning" Calories really mean anything when it comes to Digesting / Human Nutritional value?

 

Since we have a DEDICATED bunch of OPEN MINDED, SMART PEOPLE here who THINK FOR themselves we should try to see the above EQUATIONS and see from our EXPERIENCES of which foods provide more REAL ENERGY for less bulk.

Edited by crashnburn
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