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Bigz's Fruitarian/Workout Progress Pics/update


Bigbwii
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There was this ONE TIME that I ended up having a small chunk of watermelon (lets say a 1/8th Corner Cut) and went to play. Funny thing was that I never felt the kind of HEAT & HEAVINESS on my head that day. My need & craving for water was minimal. I did not have gatorade or energy bars that day so I ate the Watermelon (cutting is such a chore).

 

The funny thing is after that game, even though my stomach was empty, I was not feeling DRAINED or FAMISHED. I did not have this compelling need for FOOD... the Dying Need to Eat.

 

 

So you got water and are wondering why you didn't feel drained and famished under the hot sun?

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There was this ONE TIME that I ended up having a small chunk of watermelon (lets say a 1/8th Corner Cut) and went to play. Funny thing was that I never felt the kind of HEAT & HEAVINESS on my head that day. My need & craving for water was minimal. I did not have gatorade or energy bars that day so I ate the Watermelon (cutting is such a chore).

 

The funny thing is after that game, even though my stomach was empty, I was not feeling DRAINED or FAMISHED. I did not have this compelling need for FOOD... the Dying Need to Eat.

 

 

So you got water and are wondering why you didn't feel drained and famished under the hot sun?

 

You did not get what I am trying to say here... The AMOUNT / QUANTITY of WATER + SOLID FOOD I had was "a lot more" in a quantitative sense all other times than this particular instance.

 

The point I am trying to get at is that QUALITATIVE assessment of FOOD POTENCY on the Body cannot be broken down to the kind of MEASURING SYSTEMS we have evolved over the years.

 

e.g. Arbitrary.. Human of 100mg

Poison 1 - 1ml - 1 second - Kills

Poison 2 - 10ml - 1 minute - Kills

etc..

 

Lets say the above poisons kill the human being... The difference is QUALITATIVE POTENCY.

 

They may all have different antidotes VERY SPECIFIC in how they work (Varying quantity, time to react, time to recovery) based on varying QUALITATIVE POTENCY

 

The same would apply to varying FOODS. If everything was just FATS, CARBS & PROTEINS we would not be drifting towards MORE NATURAL & RAW FOODS.

 

So for 2 items A & B having the same Calorific Value + F+C+P will quite possibly have different POTENCY for the human body based on its MicroNutrient Structure & Energies.

 

I am not trying to prove or disprove Big B's statements. I am just saying.. What if!.... What if.. it WAS POSSIBLE?

Indian Saints and Yogis have been said to go without food & water for tons of years.. I cant prove it to YOU with what I have access to... But, my experience at the ASHRAM was such that despite doing MORE PHYSICAL ACTIVITY (walking around, climbing hills, nature walks etc) I was consuming WAY LESS FOOD... because of some yoga, a lot of SPECIAL PRANAYAMA BREATHING techniques being practised etc.

 

Either ways, I just felt that BigB opened an area of discussion that pushes the limits of our beliefs and experiences.. I wanted to consider the possibility. You never know what you might learn... The earth is round & not flat... The world is made up of energy.. and nothing more.

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Ignoring the last really helpful comments: If you are talking about calories: Did anybody here read books of Galina Schatalova?

She is a Russian doctor and author of the "book "We are gluttoning ourselves to Death". In this book, she is making an end to several dogmas. At first the completely obsolete calorie science, which claims 3000 calories daily. Half of that is enough. At second the incorrect opinion of the superiority of animal proteins: Meat, milk cheese, eggs. At third the consumption of drinking water (excess should be avoided).

To prove that her opinion is right, she has organized a cross-country march through one of the central Asiatic desertic zones, during 10 days. About eight men, eating in accordance with the principles of this doctor, and two sportsmen, eating meat and drinking up to 10 liters of water per day, were participating in this experiment. these two sportsmen abandoned after two days and returned back. The eight other men continued without special strain until they reached their target. The doctor herself has participated in this march, and this at her age of 75 years!"

In her opinion 500-1000 kcal are enough even to build mass during long distance marches. She also believes that humans are able to use nitrogen from the air and that microarganisms in our colon build essential amino acids for humans which explains why some humans are able to maintain health although eating inadequately. In her book she cites some of her studies but unfortunately she did not publish any of her studies in scientific literature.

She was officially working for the russian government for many years with a focus on the cosmonaut program. So she is not another weirdo coming from a non-scientific background

 

P.S. Yes I am still around but right now I have a lot of work and family business to do...

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That's very convenient that she did not publish any of her studies. Are we to just take her word for it since she wrote a book? Of course not! A valid experiment is reproducible so there should be more studies just like this one if we are to believe this theory. Does anyone know of other published, reproducible studies such as this one?

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Ignoring the last really helpful comments: If you are talking about calories: Did anybody here read books of Galina Schatalova?

She is a Russian doctor and author of the "book "We are gluttoning ourselves to Death". In this book, she is making an end to several dogmas. At first the completely obsolete calorie science, which claims 3000 calories daily. Half of that is enough. At second the incorrect opinion of the superiority of animal proteins: Meat, milk cheese, eggs. At third the consumption of drinking water (excess should be avoided).

 

I don't know how things are in Europe, but in the U.S. I have never heard of a health expert pushing 3000 calories a day as a general allowance for everybody. Food labels here are based on an "average 2000 calorie a day diet" and most health experts are pushing to have that lowered to 1800. No health expert here recommends the same amount of calories for everyone.

 

The protein thing isn't new. Frances Moore Lappe back in the early 70s showed that plant proteins, if combined, are just as useful as animal proteins. Even the most behind doctors I've seen have heard about this. Furthermore, even the most behind nutritionists I have talked to also know about "Rabbit Starvation", that rabbit flesh lacks a critical amino acid. People who live off exclusively rabbits as a source of protein get deficiency illnesses. Not all "animal proteins" are "superior".

 

In other words, this woman isn't saying anything new or counteracting any claims...at least as far as the US community of experts goes.

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There is nothing like a "european view" on this topic. Especially in eastern europe the are many scientists that never published anything in english for example.

The many experiements she is writing about all had in common that persons did long distance runs under extreme conditions on a diet very low in calories and water (e.g. 500 km in 10 days in a desert). Experts assumed the persons would need about 6000 kcal and 6-10 litres of water just to maintain weight. So they had one group eating that amount and the other group consuming not more than 1200 kcal. None of the first group (which consisted of endurance athletes) was able to finish the run. The second group finished even faster than planned and all maintained (some even added) bodyweight during the run.

According to the calorie theory (which states humans have to eat/drink the calories they burn) this result is impossible.

Concerning EAAs: Schatalovas opinion is that they also must be produced by bacteria inside the body because the results of their studies cannot be explained elsewise. She is not talking about combining "less useful AA" to make them complete. She is talking about the damaging effect of eating animal protein on the bacteria needed to produce EAAs.

 

@beforewisdom: The text I put in "" is taken from a summary. Schatalova bases her ideas on the situation in Russia some years ago. I am very aware of the fact that nutritional science in the US is far more advanced than in any other part of the world especially since it is based on peer-reviewed scientific articles from independent scientists in magazines which are above any suspicion.

 

@DV: Sorry for not being convenient one more time. As I stated many times before it is still a question of believe. I am happy with you believieving in the science mentioned above. Since I have a scientific background and education I understand this perspective very well. But if we believe what Bigbwii tells us, Schatalovas studies provide information how to explain the seemingly impossible.

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I found an english version of her website:

http://vita.ur.ru/english/index.html

 

In her book she gives (as I already stated) explenations why it was possible for her test persons to be extremely activ for a long period of time on very low calories without losing weight (some even gained weight).

She cites other mostly russian researchers (I will provide the names later) that did studies on EAAs and Nitrogen usage of healthy persons. She also refers to Shelton and others.

She stated repeatedly in her books she has a traditional background of a physician and that she tried to proof her ideas by doing serious research. IMO she accepts that modern science fails to explain some things that can be observed and are therefor called miracles or cheating.

Combining it with the info that Bigbwii gave us and others (e.g. indian yogis) provided about the amount of food needed to maintain weight it all makes a little bit more sense (at least) to me.

I am very sorry but there seems to be no english translation of her books. I already e-mailed to the contact-e-mail of the website mentioned above and ask for translated texts.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For everytime I heard that something could be proven or disproven purely by publishing in a Western Journal then I'd discount every Natural Remedy (ayurvedic) commonly known to every household in India.

 

- Turmeric

- Tulsi

- Ginger

- Cumin Seeds

- Ajwain

- Asafoetida

 

These are basic to every Indian household. Turmeric is used to cook, to apply for skin benefits, to apply to heal wounds, to drink with milk for a sore throat etc.

 

This is hackneyed knowledge in India. It existed before Allopathy came to life and still remains.

 

I heard that a couple of years back some American Pharma major wanted PATENT Turmeric.

 

Its in the nature of AMERICAN PHARMA & FDA etc to SELL what they can, and HIDE what they CANNOT SELL.

 

Its in their nature to try to BREAKDOWN the active ingredients in hopes that they could repackage and SELL the ingredient even if the ORIGINAL NATURAL item might have a BETTER OVERALL benefit without the ALLOPATHIC side effects.

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BOTTOMLINE QUESTION: Does burning food to raise water temperature equate energy conversion by DIGESTING food via chewing and digestive processes (saliva, stomach acid, pancreatic enzymes, liver... etc.. intestines (where nutrients are absorbed into the blood stream) )? Definitely NOT! So, how do "burning" Calories really mean anything when it comes to Digesting / Human Nutritional value?

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BOTTOMLINE QUESTION: Does burning food to raise water temperature equate energy conversion by DIGESTING food via chewing and digestive processes (saliva, stomach acid, pancreatic enzymes, liver... etc.. intestines (where nutrients are absorbed into the blood stream) )? Definitely NOT! So, how do "burning" Calories really mean anything when it comes to Digesting / Human Nutritional value?

You have no idea how much I second that!

Check your pm's!

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Calories are a measurement of energy - that is the meaning. "Burning calories" is a term that is used to describe using up energy for activity. I don't really understand what the confusion is If you don't like the term "calorie", what other term do you use to measure the energy in food? It is an arbitrary measurement, just like a centimeter. But it allows us to measure and compare things. Sure, when we use energy, we are not simply raising water temperature. But you can use the term "calorie" as a measurement of energy to be used for other things. That's my understanding

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Calories are a measurement of energy - that is the meaning. "Burning calories" is a term that is used to describe using up energy for activity. I don't really understand what the confusion is If you don't like the term "calorie", what other term do you use to measure the energy in food? It is an arbitrary measurement, just like a centimeter. But it allows us to measure and compare things. Sure, when we use energy, we are not simply raising water temperature. But you can use the term "calorie" as a measurement of energy to be used for other things. That's my understanding

I think we've been through this before. Here. We need to reevaluate the scientific definition since it is too hard and no fun at all.

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Calories are a measurement of energy - that is the meaning. "Burning calories" is a term that is used to describe using up energy for activity. I don't really understand what the confusion is If you don't like the term "calorie", what other term do you use to measure the energy in food? It is an arbitrary measurement, just like a centimeter. But it allows us to measure and compare things. Sure, when we use energy, we are not simply raising water temperature. But you can use the term "calorie" as a measurement of energy to be used for other things. That's my understanding

I think we've been through this before. Here. We need to reevaluate the scientific definition since it is too hard and no fun at all.

 

True. But don't all the Veggies keep reminding all meat eaters that they need to WAKE UP.

 

I come from a strong Physics, Engineering and Chemistry background. Life long science & physics afficando, Engineering School, Grad School..

My dad always stressed strong FUNDAMENTAL thinking when it came to Physics & Engineering.

My uncle is one of the foremost authorities in Organic Chemistry in his industry.

 

The fundamental FLAW is EQUATING the following 2 bio-physi-chemical processes:

1) COMBUSTION (Burning) in presence of Oxygen

2) DIGESTION (Chemical Breakdown) in varied stages of Enzyme-ic Breakdown & Biological Absorption

 

When a FUNDAMENTAL is flawed you do not stay with it as the basis of your measurements and experiments. That would be the END of real progress & accuracy of that SCIENCE. The goal is to CORRECT the learnings, move forward and change that SCIENCE.

 

Just because some kid in Bio-Chem lab back in 19xx enjoyed burning things and liked to measure how much wood & coal raised water temperature..... You do not allow him to define Bio-significance of food substances for 6+ Billion Earth people.

 

NOTE:

A centimeter may have been an ARBITRARILY CHOSEN length but thats a single dimensional UNIT of measurement for PHYSICALLY VISIBLE and QUANTIFIABLE item. Once ASSUMED.. the MEASUREMENT PROCESSES are QUANTIFIABLE & VISIBLE. The dynamics of BIO-CHEMICAL PROCESSES and THERMODYNAMICS do not come into PLAY here.

 

Which is the reason why even ordinary inorganic chemical processes have specific Catalysts and Temperatures etc? (High school chemistry)

 

So, should we at VBB as MORE AWARE, OPEN MINDED, SMARTER THINKING fellows not try to come up with a better way here?

Do we suck up what crap gets handed down by some guy at USDA, FDA or who knows where?

 

PS: I welcome a challenge or argument to the above. Please do not come to me with EVERYONE USES IT.. Oh! We need to use something.. argument. Come to me with a Fundamentally Logical discussion without trying to cite Science that is essentially flawed.

 

PPS: You did not upset me.

 

I am just trying to have people step out of the box and see the foolishness in EQUATING the two processes.

A closer process would be that of maybe seeing how much Dilute Acid can raise temperature of certain food... LOL!

 

In fact its funny, if the only function of FOOD was to RAISE our BODY TEMPERATURE? I don't think so.

 

So, we are measuring FOOD by its THERMODYNAMIC (HEATING ABILITY) properties and not its BIO-CHEMICAL NUTRIENT influences on the body.

 

I'd say Watermelons and Cucumbers would be really bad burners compared to dry wood. Maybe thats why we eat them as is and use dry wood to burn..

Edited by crashnburn
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Well, if we're not using the calorie as our unit of measurement then what are we to use?

 

Good question. I do not have the answer on me but I am sure that with our collective intellect we can find a BETTER WAY. Are willing to work in that direction?

 

Its like trying to capture the VARIETY of human traits & behaviors in a Standardized Test.. in fact worse.. a single unit of measurement like IQ.

 

So many varieties of nutrients and foods and we want a single unit of measurement?

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Whether this guy is dishonest or not, that for his karma. But let's say he's telling the truth, though scientifically energy in the form of a nutrient dense diet, is the way to get and stay healthy. However, Yogis, through mind over matter, can do amazing things that defy logic, science, and gravity. And go for years without food at all. As a follower of Meher Baba, which is similar to Buddhism as well as the mystic branches of all the major religions (mystic branches emphasised), explained that our life here, what we are experiencing, is a dream and it's illusion or the product of Maya (a Sanskrit term). In illusion anything is possible. I've had fully sober experiences that defy what is possible. About a decade ago I started to be aware of the dream in my night time dreams and change them to my liking. In my regular life here, I've noticed that thoughts manifest my daily life.

 

What we think, we become. — Buddha

As you think, so shall you be — Jesus

 

“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.”

— Emerson

 

“Though the eye is small, the soul which sees through it is greater and vaster than all the things which it perceives. In fact, it is so great that it includes all objects, however large or numerous, within itself. For it is not so much that you are within the cosmos as that the cosmos is within you.”

— Meher Baba

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What we think, we become. — Buddha

As you think, so shall you be — Jesus

 

“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.”

— Emerson

 

Awesome quotes. I was thinking about this the other day.

 

I've read stories about people overcoming disabilities and other disadvantages. I also some video about transgendered people and how amazingly they transformed themselves.

 

People sometimes lean towards generating lists of reasons why they can't be something and often real limits do exist. Yet, it is amazing how much people can transform themselves when they are strongly motivated.

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Energy doesn't equate burning stuff in the presence of oxygen. We have tried to explain to you and others what energy is but to no avail. To me there's no point in discussing energy if we can't agree on what it is.

Next up: Flood Geology.

 

I never said ENERGY = COMBUSTION. I meant "burning based calorie measurement" does not equate "digestion".

 

I'd like to have your TAKE on ENERGY.

 

This is mine.

 

Given the law conservation of energy.. It can neither be created, not destroyed. It only converts from one form to another. i.e. All Mass & Energy are inter convertible. All forms of mass are "potentially" energy.

 

If you notice the underlined "convert from one form to another" we have to realize that the FORM of ENERGY defines its applicability to a system.

 

Which is why Burning Gas in a Combustion engine is one form of applicability.

Since our bodies cannot use the same Petrochemical Energy via our Biological Processes. The same way an apple or watermelon or spirulina no matter how POTENT in Bio-Energy would not benefit a Combustion engine.

 

Our Human bodies THRIVE on the "SIGNIFICANCE" of a "CERTAIN FORM" of ENERGY. That form of energy is derived from "LIFE GIVING" or "LIVING" or "FORMERLY LIVING" substances. Why?

 

Because those are the forms that WORKS BEST with our systems.

 

As we all have learned over the years.. the DIVERSITY of "THESE FORMS" of "LIVING SUBSTANCES" and their "SIGNIFICANCES" vary a lot.

 

Thereby, my only contention is that we deviate away from the "THERMODYNAMIC" & "BURNING" mechanisms to Understand ENERGY EFFECT on HUmans.

 

What would be best way to measure? I dont know but I am just throwing a thought out.

 

Maybe we take a 100 world class athletes and 1000 fit people. For 2-3 days only give them FOOD ITEM 1 and make them do certain SPECIFIC kinds of measurable work activity.

 

We'd get a measure of how much ENERGY the HUMAN got from that FOOD. Ofcourse, we'd have to figure out how to account for DETERMINATION, MIND CONTROL, STAMINA etc.

 

The human body is not an isolated test tube to be heated on a Bunsen Burner..

 

Anyways.. love to hear that you have to say.

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Whether this guy is dishonest or not, that for his karma. But let's say he's telling the truth, though scientifically energy in the form of a nutrient dense diet, is the way to get and stay healthy. However, Yogis, through mind over matter, can do amazing things that defy logic, science, and gravity. And go for years without food at all. As a follower of Meher Baba, which is similar to Buddhism as well as the mystic branches of all the major religions (mystic branches emphasised), explained that our life here, what we are experiencing, is a dream and it's illusion or the product of Maya (a Sanskrit term). In illusion anything is possible. I've had fully sober experiences that defy what is possible. About a decade ago I started to be aware of the dream in my night time dreams and change them to my liking. In my regular life here, I've noticed that thoughts manifest my daily life.

 

What we think, we become. — Buddha

As you think, so shall you be — Jesus

 

“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.”

— Emerson

 

“Though the eye is small, the soul which sees through it is greater and vaster than all the things which it perceives. In fact, it is so great that it includes all objects, however large or numerous, within itself. For it is not so much that you are within the cosmos as that the cosmos is within you.”

— Meher Baba

 

He he.. dropSoul Love what you've written. But, I think talking about the Yogis, Maya, Advaita will make our readers drift further away. Very few people even begin to ponder and understand the borderline between spirituality and science.

 

Which is why EINSTEIN reached where he did where most people did not. Most people never understood the levels at which he was operating but take his greatness based on the fame that is present in popular media. Everyone thinks he was great because it was the popular thing to do.

 

When he talked about the breaking of the Time-Space Continuum... Most people had no idea he had read the Vedas & the Bhagvad Gita.

 

The Matrix is Everywhere

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