Fruit vs. veggies for trimming down (and calories?)

[GregX999]

Ok, I'm by no means "fat", my BF is probably around 10-12%. But I think about half of that is wrapped around my midsection covering up the lower "2" of my 6-pack and sticking out over my waistband. The rest of me is quite trim - ie: when training shoulders I can see lots of those little grooves in my shoulder muscles.

 

I've come down from probably around 15-16% BF in the last 4-5 months. But I'm really banging my head over this last little "hold-out" of plumpness.

 

I'm 5'9" and about 150-155 lbs. I lift about 45mins 3 or 4 days a week, and do some type of cardio (running or biking or HITT) for 30-60 minutes, 2-3 times per week. Since I'm also trying to gain muscle, I've been eating 3000 calories per day - about 100-120g protein, 30-40g fat (10-15% of calories from fat).

 

Those sites that calculate how many calories per day you should be eating tell me around 3200-3600. So I thought 3000 would be a good number. I had previously been eating only 2000-2500 calories per day as I didn't know how many I really needed if I wanted to put on more muscle. I thought maybe by eating so few my body had lowered its metabolism or had been in some kind of "starvation mode" or something, hence upping to 3000.

 

A good portion of my carbs come from fruit as I love it. For instance, today I had a total of 7 peaches, 3 bananas and 3 oranges (spread throughout the day - but two shakes of 2 peaches and 1 banana, one of those shakes with soy protein powder too).

 

Today, total calories from fruit = 930 calories (230g of the 550g of carbs I ate today... almost half). The rest came from oatmeal, brown rice, a salad, broccoli, a whole grain roll and beans.

 

Am I sabotaging myself by eating so much fruit? I've read such conflicting info. My calorie intake seems about right now - I think.

 

Greg

[Octopussoir]

Tip:

1. work your lower abs more to increase the muscle size

2. That last little bit of fat is gonna be your hardest and cutting cals is probably gonna be the only to do it.

 

By no means should you cut back on your training. Just Calories.

[Fallen_Horse]

Am I sabotaging myself by eating so much fruit? I've read such conflicting info.

My friend, when you figure this one out, be sure to let me know... :\

[veganmaster]

Starches are better than simple sugars for body recomposition:

http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/2008/08/ideal-mnp-diet-is-high-in-starches-low.html

 

To maximize your results, try for 5-10% FAT (you are almost there already) and increase your intake of complex carbs. Regardless of the total kcal of a diet, the body recomposition results are a direct result of the ratio of CHO:FAT in the diet, and the ratio of starches:simple sugars (to mention 2 factors). I have broken things down into four rules of Maximum Nutrient Partitioning, which you can read all about on my blog. You are well on your way and by delving into the scientific studies on human metabolism you will help give yourself the tools for maximal results!

 

The Four Rules Of MNP 100% Muscle:

 

RULE #1: To optimize the efficiency of protein deposition, maximize the ratio of CHO:FAT in the diet: 75-85% CHO, 5-10% FAT, 10-15% PRO.

 

RULE #2: To guarantee significant increases in LBM, consume more total kcal than you expend.

 

RULE #3: To limit De Novo Lipogenesis, maximize the ratio of starches to sugars.

 

RULE #4: To stimulate protein synthesis and macronutrient oxidation, perform regular muscle work.

 

For further details:http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/2008/08/mnp-100-muscle-and-34-selected.html.

[Gaia]

Add more veggies to your diet. Half the fruit. I also advocate no rolls or bread for losing the belly fat. Also I am with OctoP, that you may have to diet down to get rid of the middle fat, and then go back to your goal of building muscle.

 

Try it and see how your body responds.

[beforewisdom]

Vegetables, as a generalization, will fill you up more for fewer calories then fruit:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

[GregX999]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

Octopussoir, I think my ab muscles are an ok size compared with the rest of me. I can juuuusssst see the top 4 of a six pack, especially when the light is just right. I just need to get rid of that fat!!

 

Veganmaster, I actually read your blog a few weeks ago. Lots of good stuff. It convinced me to lower my fat from 20% down to 10-15% and up the carbs without worrying too much about tons of protein. I'm getting used to 10-15%. But 5-10%?? Right now I think I only have 1 or 2 fatty things per day - things like chia seeds, guacamole, a bit of oil/vinegar on a salad, or the fat in a Clif Builder bar.

 

Gaia, that's what I was thinking of trying next actually - halving the fruit and upping the veggies. If I kept the same calories I guess I'd also have to up the starch (oatmeal, rice, potatoes) since the veggies have less calories for how filling they are.

 

Beforewisdom, yeah, I know veggies fill you up more with fewer calories. That's why I'm eating so much fruit. It's actual "work" to make sure I eat 3000 cals per day. If I didn't track all my food and make sure I ate 3000, I would probably come in at around 2500 per day.

 

I think I'll finish out the week at 3000 per day, but replace some of the fruit with more veggies, grains and beans. Then next week I'll shift down to fewer cals. Any opinions on how low I should go? I would think maybe 2000 would melt the fat faster but I don't want to loose muscle either.

 

If I went down to 2000, would I still need to keep my protein like it is now (100-120g)? Or would as low at 70g per day be okay? (I weigh somewhere around 70kg.)

 

Greg

[Octopussoir]

See the thing is you are still unsure about how they look. You stated the top 4 look good when the light hits just right. Why not have it look good no matter what light youre in. Also, I said work your lower abdominals (the ones you cannot see apparently) more. Def eat more veggies and cut bread out completely. Cutting bread is the main thing I did to get my bf from 6% to even lower. Ive maintained 5% or lower for over a year now. I be knowing what I talk about. Also to tighten up the sides do more twisting motions for your abs to solidify up the obliques. NO BREAD and NO SODA!! I ate 17lbs of watermelon at one time and it didnt make my abs disappear. TRIAL AND ERROR with your body and diet. Everyone is different.

[GregX999]

See the thing is you are still unsure about how they look. You stated the top 4 look good when the light hits just right. Why not have it look good no matter what light youre in. Also, I said work your lower abdominals (the ones you cannot see apparently) more. Def eat more veggies and cut bread out completely. Cutting bread is the main thing I did to get my bf from 6% to even lower. Ive maintained 5% or lower for over a year now. I be knowing what I talk about. Also to tighten up the sides do more twisting motions for your abs to solidify up the obliques. NO BREAD and NO SODA!! I ate 17lbs of watermelon at one time and it didnt make my abs disappear. TRIAL AND ERROR with your body and diet. Everyone is different.

 

Ok, ok... I'll do it!! Lots of leg lifts and twisty things.

 

I will indeed cut out bread (even though I only eat whole grains and sprouted grains). Soda? What's that? I actually haven't had soda in years. I only drink water, coffee, green tea and soy milk these days (not at the same time) (I want to cut out coffee, but damn it's hard).

 

Also, I'm not too worried about fruit adding fat, just with it interfering with loosing it.

 

But for this super-trimming stage, should I still maintain 100-120g/day protein intake? Or is dropping down 70-90g okay? I'm unsure what the "accepted" amount per kg is for loosing fat but not muscle.

 

Greg

[Octopussoir]

dont make it such a science. it doesnt have to be that hard. I find myself NOT obtaining my bf goals when I measure everything out. Just work on what your eating/drinking. Also, ezekial bread is okay, just not flour.

[Gaia]

I would drop the carbs, not the protein or the little fat you have. I would also do just a day of 2000 calories (make your body react by taking the fat away from your adipose tissue), and then go back to 3000 the next day. Do that for a week, and then do it for 2 days in a row (2000 calories) and then back up to 3000cal. See if you lose any bf that way. Cycle it to keep your body guessing what to do: just don't make your body figure it out and make your metabolism stabilize at 2000 calories, because when you go to 3000 calories it will say "Surplus!" put it into storage! bf goes up then