I am stunned

[francesca]

Hello to everyone, I am a 22 year old Italian young lady and I am writing you form Rome. In the first place excuse me for my not perfect English

 

I began to practice sports only almost 2 years ago ago, basically cardio activity(running, spinning,rowing(outdoor and indoor)

 

I am not vegana, but I am not to attracted to animal produts,, especially meat. It's not that I don't like it it's just that I never feel like eating it, It's as if my body does not need it.

I know it may sound stupid, but generally I eat meat only when I really..urge for it (once every 2 months)

 

Same thing for the eggs(which I used to eat once a year at Easter) and fish (even though eaten much more frequnetly than the meat)

 

I eat all kinds of legumes and cereals, brown rice and brown pasta, nuts,peanuts, almonds, vegetable, fruit,olive oil.. I don't like milk but eat yogurt(for the calcium and the intestine's...regularity

 

My problem is the following: because of my very poor diet plus sports, I lost some weight and know I need to regain 4-5 kgs ( I am 173cm per 56 kg,),

 

I guess the way to gain weight but not fat is to eat properly and practice some weight activity and less cardio activity

 

But in Italy, everyone keeps on saying that only if you eat carbo, tons of animal and milk proteins you can gain weight and muscles.Which means whey, caseine before sleep, eggs, tuna, meat every single day!!

 

I don't want to follow this diet. It is too much an obligation. Plus I find the digetsion od animaml proteins very difficult. A little easier the yogurt digestion

 

That’s why I was amazed when I read of vegan BB!!! I would love to learn how to eat perfectly balanced but avoiding meat, eggs, milk , fish and why not, also cheese

 

The only thing I know on this argument is that veg foods need to be mixed in some way, which I ignore, in order to substitute meat. For ex. brown rice and beans

 

Is it really possible to gain muscles not eating animal proteins??

 

Where can I find a typical menu just for an example??Must the different food be mixed(ex:beans and brown rice, NEVER beans with cheese, ecc)

 

Is there a bo0k I can read which can be a guideline?

 

By the time I find and buy and receive the book form the internet store, can someone give me some idea in order to substitute fish, meat, eggs, milk, cheese?

 

Do vegan BB eat as weel 6 times a day?

Edited September 4, 2008 by francesca

[francesca]

I also post you the diet I should follow, but which I abhor

 

Breakfast

30 gr whey

2 yogurts with all bran

7 wholeweat toasts with jam or honey

 

Half morning

sandwich with 50 gr tuna or ham or dried beef

OR

whey plus apple(if pre workout)

OR

proteinn bar

 

Lunch

120 gr of wholeweat pasta or rice, 100 gr of meat or fish,vegetable, fruit

 

Mid afternoon

same as mid morning

 

Dinner

200 gr of beans oR 200 gr of potatoes, PLUS meat or fish( still 100 gr)

vegetable, fruit

 

Before sleep

a kind of cheese low carb and hih pro(I don't know how it's called in English, or powder CASEINE PRO

 

..terrible, isn't it??

[beforewisdom]

Francesca, see the second link in my signature for good readings on vegan nutrition.

 

Since you want to put on muscle you might also be interested in combining legumes ( peas, beans, lentils, peanuts ) with whole grains/whole grain products in your meals. Doing that and optionally having one protein drink a day should give you more than enough nutrition to put on muscle.

[Katabatic]

The only thing I know on this argument is that veg foods need to be mixed in some way, which I ignore, in order to substitute meat. For ex. brown rice and beans

The need to combine rice and beans in one meal, or other foods, has been proven false. If you eat a variety of foods, it's not really a concern.

 

Is it really possible to gain muscles not eating animal proteins??

Of course.

 

 

Where can I find a typical menu just for an example??Must the different food be mixed(ex:beans and brown rice, NEVER beans with cheese, ecc)

They don't have to be mixed, but there are certain ways to help digestion, like eating fruits(fast digesting) before other foods(slower digesting).

 

I think you're overly concerned. It doesn't have to be complicated at all.

[francesca]

thank you for having indicated me some books,I'll take a look in an international book store this afternoon,, otherwise I'll search in internet

 

Fruit before meals? Well that has been the way my mother made me eat it, also raw veg(like salad) always before the meal, I should start again too eat this way

 

I mey sound concerned because I have undoubtedly lost, together with weight, muscle tone eating mainly veg

 

That's why I thought I was probably missing something. For exampe I don't eat soy or tofu. Maybe I should introduce them in my diet

 

dies WHOLE grain is the brown rice, correct?An example of a protein drink(except milk?)

 

In Italy brown rice and beans is called the "steak of the poor" because it is as almost complete as meat.

 

Really the combination of the various foods is not essential? How can than the organism assimilate a wide spectrum of amino acids if they re not eaten contemporarily?

[Gaia]

The combination of foods is essential, it is just that they don't need to be eaten together. Your body digest all day long. As long as you eat a variety of grains (yes, brown rice is only one! Whole grain bread is another (wheat), and legumes (your typical beans, but there are many varieties of beans - from soy/tofu to kidney to hummus (chickpea/garbanzo beans) to cannelini beans tapenade!) and vegetables/fruits, you will get all that your body needs for the day. Variety is the way to well rounded nutrition.

 

Your list of food to eat for the day sounds unappetizing and that is for a person who has adopted the BB lifestyle for a year or so. You can not just start eating that way! That is not what building a body is meant to be. You should just start to add some new foods at a time.

 

Like alot of us eat oatmeal with protein powder for breakfast (we add fruit like apples, bananas, dates, or any other kind of fruit to sweeten it up and make it good tasting).

 

Some of us do the protein drinks next, or a nice smoothie (blended fruit and vegetable juice - mostly for the endurance athletes).

 

Lunch is usually a bowl of brown rice, but we put alot of vegetables into it (like a Chinese fried rice or pilaf-style with beans, or tofu (baked perhaps), or even seiten (wheatmeat) in the rice for a protein source).

 

Then another protein drink (there are many different vegan protein powders out there! Brown rice protein powder, Hemp protein powder, gemma/pea protein powder, brazilian nut protein powder (raw), and mixes of these protein powders).

 

Dinner can be small like a salad with seiten/baked tofu/chickpeas (any bean) as the protein source if you are trying to lose weight, or you can add potatoes (it is a good carb/ spikes your insulin levels though/ high glycemic index food), but beans are better (tofu is soybean curd, so it is a bean also). You are so low on the BMI that I don't think your body can digest more protein with meat also added to dinner!

 

You are going to have to build your calories up slowly, and increase your lifting weights as you do so. Build your OWN body! Eat more food, but not all at once! So you like vegetables and fruit, build on that! Add beans/legumes to your diet first. Increase the brown rice to bigger portions, but slowly! Give your body time to adjust to what you want to see! Lift the weights at slow, but increasing weights. With that diet you have planned, you should be curling 25lbs dumbbells! If you are at 5 lbs dumbbells, then have a diet that supports that! Just as your muscles can't take a 25lbs load, your digestive system can't handle massive amounts of food (at least not all at once!).

 

More advice: Keep a journal of what you eat. Look at it at the end of the week and see where you can improve on it! You might be amazed at what you do eat, and what you do not eat!

[DaN]

Hi Francesca

 

You have been told the same as we are told here in England.If you want to gain muscle, you have to eat meat, or dairy.It is simply not true.

 

I followed a fish, egg & milk diet for months & gained little weight.When I switched to vegan diet I started gaining maybe twice as fast.

 

If you want to lift weights, you must eat alot of food to give your body the energy it needs to recover.

 

Good sources of protein are Beans with brown bread*.Lentils & Rice*.Soya milk or tofu.Nuts.

 

Good sources of energy are wholegrain foods like rice, potatoes, brown bread.Also nuts, seeds, vegetables & fruit.

 

I eat the protein combinations* once to twice a day, & everything else as much as possible! I also make fruit smoothies, with soya protein powder & add a vegetable like carrot or kale (cabbage) to it.I eat those twice a day for breakfast & after work at 5:00.

 

Just keep eating more every day until you find you are gaining weight! But do not be forced into eating meat or dairy, its unhealthy, unkind & not needed!

 

Gaia advice above is good advice too.

[francesca]

(yes, brown rice is only one!

 

FOR BROWN RICE I MEANT THE WHOLEWEATED. I'VE NEVER SEEN BROWN RICE IN ITALY BUT MAYBE BECAUSE I SIMPLY DID NOT NOTICE IT

Your list of food to eat for the day sounds unappetizing and that is for a person who has adopted the BB lifestyle for a year or so. You can not just start eating that way!

 

More than a BB diet is the way peolpe who do lots of sports. Excpet for the protein powders and the tons of eggs per day.. To avoid catabolism

 

Like alot of us eat oatmeal with protein powder for breakfast (we add fruit like apples, bananas, dates, or any other kind of fruit to sweeten it up and make it good tasting).

Some of us do the protein drinks next, or a nice smoothie (blended fruit and vegetable juice - mostly for the endurance athletes).

 

is oatmael like quaker quick oat? is it eaten raw or cooked?

 

Lunch is usually a bowl of brown rice, but we put alot of vegetables into it (like a Chinese fried rice or pilaf-style with beans, or tofu (baked perhaps), or even seiten (wheatmeat) in the rice for a protein source)

.

 

I definitly need to look for this brown rice

 

T

hen another protein drink (there are many different vegan protein powders out there! Brown rice protein powder, Hemp protein powder, gemma/pea protein powder, brazilian nut protein powder (raw), and mixes of these protein powders).

 

POWDERS?? never seen them in Italy. Do you mix them with water?

Dinner can be small like a salad with seiten/baked tofu/chickpeas (any bean) as the protein source if you are trying to lose weight, or you can add potatoes (it is a good carb/ spikes your insulin levels though/ high glycemic index food), but beans are better (tofu is soybean curd, so it is a bean also). You are so low on the BMI that I don't think your body can digest more protein with meat also added to dinner!

 

what is BMI??

[francesca]

I eat the protein combinations* once to twice a day, & everything else as much as possible! I also make fruit smoothies, with soya protein powder & add

 

what are protein combinations?

 

Just keep eating more every day until you find you are gaining weight! But do not be forced into eating meat or dairy, its unhealthy, unkind & not needed

!

 

I'd love to give up meat for the rest of my life.Thank you for your suggestions

 

But how many grams of prot. x kg x day are allowed??

 

Gaia advice above is good advice too.

[DaN]

quaker quick oat

 

Yes Quakers is oatmeal/porridge, as far as I know!

 

POWDERS?? never seen them in Italy. Do you mix them with water

 

Water, soya milk, fruit smoothies, soup.Anything really

 

What is BMI?

 

Body mass index.Is a way for people to measure their weight/body size ratio.It determines how much you apparently should weigh for your size.

 

What are the protein combinations?

 

I put a little star by them in the post.Beans & wheat (brown bread etc).Lentils & rice

 

But how many grams of prot. x kg x day are allowed

 

That depends who you ask.Some body builders go for 250 grams a day.Some on here say all you need is around 100, or less.I try to eat about half way, around 150 per day, but if I eat less or more, it doesnt make a huge difference.What most of us vegan body builders have found, is that calories is the important thing, not protein.

 

[francesca]

i add:ADD potatoes to lose weight????

[francesca]

I put a little star by them in the post.Beans & wheat (brown bread etc).Lentils & rice

 

thanks. so the various foods have to be combined? or I can eat beans at lunch and rice after 4 hours?

 

But how many grams of prot. x kg x day are allowed

 

That depends who you ask.Some body builders go for 250 grams a day.Some on here say all you need is around 100, or less.

 

so it's not per kg or lbs? How much do you weight??What happens f you eat more veg proteins? Are they dangerous just like animal proteins?

Edited September 5, 2008 by francesca

[francesca]

Dinner can be small like a salad with seiten/baked tofu/chickpeas (any bean) as the protein source if you are trying to lose weight, or you can add potatoes (it is a good carb/ spikes your insulin levels though/ high glycemic index food), but beans are better (tofu is soybean curd, so it is a bean also). You are so low on the BMI that I don't think your body can digest more protein with meat also added to dinner!

 

if I want to lose weight seiten/baked tufu/chickpeas or any bean

But if I want to gain weight, potatoes? But beans are better? so seiten,, tufu,chickpeas + potatoes AND beans(different from tufu?) or + Poatatoes OR beans?

 

I usally eat spelt, lentils, pearl barely...shaped like pasta. It's pasta made not with grain but with these ingredients at 100%.It's quicker to cook

 

How about "normal grain"? (normal pasta or rice))) can it be eaten?

[veganmaster]

The key to gaining muscle and minimizing fat is a very low fat vegan diet high in complex carbohydrates, as I detail extensively in my blog. A good starting place is my first blog post, which showcases the objective reality that animal foods are horrible fuel for the human machine:

 

http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/2008/07/you-are-biological-herbivore.html

 

The key understanding is that humans are herbivorous primates, just like chimps and other primates.

[DaN]

thanks. so the various foods have to be combined? or I can eat beans at lunch and rice after 4 hours?

 

Again it depends who you ask, but I believe firmly they should be eaten together.Another great combination is homous & bread.I eat 2-3 slices of bread with 150 grams of homous.It supplies alot of calories & complete protein.

 

so it's not per kg or lbs? How much do you weight??What happens f you eat more veg proteins? Are they dangerous just like animal proteins

 

There is some magical amount of protein you should eat per kilo of body weight, but personally I am not sure it is that accurate or needed.

I dont think veg proteins are ever as bad as animal protein, but too much of either is bad for your body.

 

The recomended daily allowance, as stated by the health institute here in the UK recommends a female have 50 grams of protein per day as a minimum, no matter what size you are.If you are highly active, & lifting weights, I think you could double this to 100.Any more your body will poo out probably!

 

[francesca]

Another great combination is homous & bread.I eat 2-3 slices of bread with 150 grams of homous.It supplies alot of calories & complete protein.

 

any kind of bread as as long as it's integral??

[Katabatic]

You should focus more on calories right now to gain weight. Eating extra protein won't make you gain weight if you don't eat enough calories.

[DaN]

any kind of bread as as long as it's integral??

 

I eat the best quality wholemeal brown bread I can find, with seeds on it usually.I am looking into making my own bread which would be even healthier!

 

But a good wholemeal seeded bread is high in calories & the protein in it compliments the homous protein to create a good all round food.

 

Katabatic is right, its more about calories overall than protein, but the homous bread combo is high in both, so its a good one