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Ok, I'm probably going to regret creating this topic, but here goes.

From research I have done (Internet, books etc... Sorry I don't have my own lab, so can't test these things myself)

Almost all fruits have less than 5% protein, whilst some contain more than this, they are no more than 10% protein (strawberries etc)

I'm just curious how people who eat a predominately fruit diet get their protein requirements?

It doesn't matter if you are a 80,10,10, or a 70, 20, 10 etc, To me it just doesn't add up.

I'm not talking about people who eat nuts and seeds and algae etc As there is plenty of protein on offer there.

So yeah, interested in the thoughts of people who do Strenuous Exercise (This is a Bodybuilding and Fitness Forum after all)

I would also like some sort of proof if you are making a claim, quoting some new age guru who sells you his products and beliefs doesn't count either.

Let the games begin...

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I guess these diets are called 811 but it may be even less than 10% proteins. It works for many endurance athletes. For bodybuilders, I don't know. On the Fruit Page(of course this site is not very scientific but that's all I can find this late, I should go to sleep...), about breast milk: "It consists only of about 1% of proteins though proteins are the most important material for building cells! Babies grow lots of cells so obviously it's not necessary to obtain much of proteins for the cell-building process. Fruit also only consists of 1% of proteins and that is obviously enough proteins for a human to obtain the amino acids required for building the cells. " Like Tim VanOrden says, it's more about the amino acids than the amount of proteins.

amount of proteins and other nutrients in all fruits : http://www.thefruitpages.com/contents.shtml
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I guess these diets are called 811 but it may be even less than 10% proteins. It works for many endurance athletes. For bodybuilders, I don't know. On the Fruit Page(of course this site is not very scientific but that's all I can find this late, I should go to sleep...), about breast milk: "It consists only of about 1% of proteins though proteins are the most important material for building cells! Babies grow lots of cells so obviously it's not necessary to obtain much of proteins for the cell-building process. Fruit also only consists of 1% of proteins and that is obviously enough proteins for a human to obtain the amino acids required for building the cells. " Like Tim VanOrden says, it's more about the amino acids than the amount of proteins. amount of proteins and other nutrients in all fruits : http://www.thefruitpages.com/contents.shtml

 

A few points I would like to mention.

1. Most endurance athletes that I know of get protein from nuts and seeds or other sources.

2. Babies Do not have the same metabolism or nutritional requirements as adults do, here is an article I found describing why human milk is low protein.

 

HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN

Protein is a prime example of how human milk is unique nutrition for human babies. Human milk is low in protein, at least when compared with the milk of other species, especially cow's milk. This isn't a nutritional deficiency; there are good reasons for this. Human infants are designed to grow slowly. While it's important for humans to develop strong bodies, even more important is brain development and the learning of social skills. The experiences that shape the brain come from close contact between mother and baby when baby is held and carried. If human infants doubled their birthweight in less than 50 days the way baby calves do, and then continued growing, how could their mothers carry them and talk to them and keep them close? Baby cows need to learn where to find the best grass in the meadow; baby humans need to learn how to work with others so that everyone's needs get met.

 

Though the protein content of human milk is generally low, the types of amino acids that make up these proteins are important. One particular amino acid, taurine, is found in large amounts in human milk. Studies show that taurine has an important role in the development of the brain and the eyes. The body can't convert other kinds of amino acids into taurine, so its presence in human milk is significant--so significant that some formula manufacturers have begun adding it to artificial baby milks.

 

If you let milk stand out of the refrigerator and sour, you will see that milk proteins fall into two categories, curds and whey. (Remember Miss Muffet?) The curd portion, the casein proteins, are the white clots; the liquid is the whey. Cow's milk is mostly casein protein, which forms a rubbery, hard-to-digest curd in babies' tummies. Human milk has more whey than curd, and the curds that are formed are softer and more quickly digested. Breastfed babies get hungry sooner than babies who are formula-fed because human milk proteins are digested so efficiently. It doesn't take as much energy to digest human milk as it does to digest formula. Frequent feedings also ensure that human babies get lots of attention from their mothers

 

As Adults our brains have finished growing, so we need protein to maintain muscle. As Bodybuilders or people enaged in exercise it seems pretty obvious We need even more protein than everyone else to repair our muscles, grow our muscles and to stay healtly.

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Jeez, Chris, you always have to pound us with facts and logic!!!

 

Didn't we already rip apart that Tim VanOrden ridiculousness in another thread?

 

I imagine that if you are eating a stupendous amount of fruits then you could get the daily minimum of protein for someone who is maintaining a lean frame. An underweight person might even be able to grow some muscle. However, the amount of calories could be such that a lot of cardio would be needed in order to not gain fat - leading to a situation where it is difficult to put on muscle mass. Then there are the constant trips to the toilet..........

 

But seriously, there are no fruitarians who are bodybuilders for a reason. Maybe some endurance athletes might dabble in it - but not the ones at the top of their game.

 

Let's get one point very clear. Building muscle on fruit is COMPLETELY different than maintaining muscle on fruit. It twists me when some guy eats tons of meat, starts bodybuilding, becomes vegan - and then calls himself a vegan bodybuilder the next day. A vegan bodybuilder, IMO, is someone who has built his/her muscle, to some degree, as a vegan. A fruitarian bodybuilder would have to do the same.

 

With those ground rules, let the games begin!

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A few points I would like to mention.

1. Most endurance athletes that I know of get protein from nuts and seeds or other sources.

2. Babies Do not have the same metabolism or nutritional requirements as adults do, here is an article I found describing why human milk is low protein.

 

As Adults our brains have finished growing, so we need protein to maintain muscle. As Bodybuilders or people enaged in exercise it seems pretty obvious We need even more protein than everyone else to repair our muscles, grow our muscles and to stay healtly.

 

1.some don't eat nuts or very little nuts and seeds (tim, durian rider, bigbwii)

2.it's just they're smaller, so of course we need larger amount of food, but same % of proteins; proof: the fruitarians.

By mentioning that article, are you saying that human babies grow slower than other animals because of the human milk ? Humans are not designed according to their milk, it is the human milk who is designed to human requirements. Feeding a baby with cow milk won't make him grow faster or bigger, on the contrary it would harm its growth.

 

Once we're growth, we probably need even less proteins, because brain, bones and muscles are built; all tissue, hair, all cells only need to regenerate. If you're a bodybuilder, you're still a human (growing slowly) so you don't need lots of proteins, except if you become inhuman/superhuman by injecting yourself extra hormones.

 

 

Didn't we already rip apart that Tim VanOrden ridiculousness in another thread?
No, where ? what's wrong with him ?
But seriously' date=' there are no fruitarians who are bodybuilders for a reason. Maybe some endurance athletes might dabble in it - but not the ones at the top of their game.[/quote'] There are no, or not many, fruitarian bodybuilders because there are not many fruitarians. Tim, richard blackman, durian rider all have more muscles than you do (I know they're men...) eventhough they're not bodybuilders. Oh and you say they don't perform at the top of their sport ? Perhaps you haven't seen Tim's race results.. He's more on top than me and you that's for sure.
Let's get one point very clear. Building muscle on fruit is COMPLETELY different than maintaining muscle on fruit.
It's different but not so much. what's the scientific study behind your reasonning ( don't tell me you don't need one' date=' but that I need one for "food combinings"). Maintaining : the body is always rebuilding. To build more, eat more.

 

All your're saying is not so different than meateaters talking about vegans unable to build muscles. Lots of ignorance, not lot of science. EDIT :

There are no, or not many, fruitarian bodybuilders because there are not many fruitarians. Tim, richard blackman, durian rider all have more muscles than you do (I know they're men...) eventhough they're not bodybuilders.
It is important to remember that there are men out there w/ almost no muscles, and less muscles than some women. While these fruitarians have muscles eventhough they do lots of cardio (we always hear that it is better to minimize cardio in order to maintain lean mass). I don't know if you've seen the chest of Tim and durian rider, but it's too much muscles, adding useless weight for their sport.
Edited by I'm Your Man
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I'm just curious how people who eat a predominately fruit diet get their protein requirements?

 

Supplements.

 

That seems (at least to me) to contradict the idea of "living foods" or "natural foods". Aside from those magic enzymes, I don't see how a highly processed protein extract/powder or a dried, powdered, high protein plant could be "living" or "natural".

 

This URL is fast & handy. It will tell what nutrition is in almost every food:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Edited by beforewisdom
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Oh yeah and that article is very interesting but not for the reasons you mentioned. (words in bold are from me)

 

HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN]

Protein is a prime example of how human milk is unique nutrition for human babies. Human milk is low in protein, at least when compared with the milk of other species, especially cow's milk. This isn't a nutritional deficiency; there are good reasons for this. Human infants are designed to grow slowly. (and adults even more slowly -- in fact they're not growing). While it's important for humans to develop strong bodies, even more important is brain development and the learning of social skills. The experiences that shape the brain come from close contact between mother and baby when baby is held and carried. If human infants doubled their birthweight in less than 50 days the way baby calves do, and then continued growing, how could their mothers carry them and talk to them and keep them close? Baby cows need to learn where to find the best grass in the meadow; baby humans need to learn how to work with others so that everyone's needs get met.

 

Though the protein content of human milk is generally low, the types of amino acids that make up these proteins are important. (Like in fruits) One particular amino acid, taurine, is found in large amounts in human milk. Studies show that taurine has an important role in the development of the brain and the eyes. The body can't convert other kinds of amino acids into taurine, so its presence in human milk is significant--so significant that some formula manufacturers have begun adding it to artificial baby milks.

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lol... I think he gains muscles so easily (by just running -- or going to the gym once in a while ... there's a pic of him lifting weights) because of the superiority of raw amino acids over mountains of processed stuff. Also, he (says he) only eats about 1 500 cals/day but burns about 3 000. He would lose his lean mass but it's not happening, samething with the 2 other guys I mentionned.

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Didn't we already rip apart that Tim VanOrden ridiculousness in another thread?
No, where ? what's wrong with him ?
But seriously' date=' there are no fruitarians who are bodybuilders for a reason. Maybe some endurance athletes might dabble in it - but not the ones at the top of their game.[/quote'] There are no, or not many, fruitarian bodybuilders because there are not many fruitarians. Tim, richard blackman, durian rider all have more muscles than you do (I know they're men...) eventhough they're not bodybuilders. Oh and you say they don't perform at the top of their sport ? Perhaps you haven't seen Tim's race results.. He's more on top than me and you that's for sure.
Let's get one point very clear. Building muscle on fruit is COMPLETELY different than maintaining muscle on fruit.
It's different but not so much. what's the scientific study behind your reasonning ( don't tell me you don't need one' date=' but that I need one for "food combinings"). Maintaining : the body is always rebuilding. To build more, eat more. [/quote']

 

Strong logic comparing male to female . I also have a hard time believing either of them are bigger than dv, let alone stronger.

 

Richard's arms were listed @ 13" on bb.com, I'm sure DV isn't too far from there. As far as tim or durian, unlikely.

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that's possible my biceps are 13" too. But what about their whole body ? Less muscles than a woman who lift weights? anyway, like you said, let's not compare men and women. So what about children and teenagers, they grow pretty fast, does a 14 year old kid only fed with lots of fruits would remain small ? We'll probably never know, samething with bodybuilding on fruits. Everybody is only saying their opinion. I'll try it and see for myself, perhaps next summer. Why don't you try it ?

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1.some don't eat nuts or very little nuts and seeds (tim, durian rider, bigbwii)

2.it's just they're smaller, so of course we need larger amount of food, but same % of proteins; proof: the fruitarians.

By mentioning that article, are you saying that human babies grow slower than other animals because of the human milk ? Humans are not designed according to their milk, it is the human milk who is designed to human requirements. Feeding a baby with cow milk won't make him grow faster or bigger, on the contrary it would harm its growth.

 

Once we're growth, we probably need even less proteins, because brain, bones and muscles are built; all tissue, hair, all cells only need to regenerate. If you're a bodybuilder, you're still a human (growing slowly) so you don't need lots of proteins, except if you become inhuman/superhuman by injecting yourself extra hormones.

 

1. To be honest I really don't believe any of the claims that Tim? Durian rider or bigbwii make. I don't know any of them personally, but I know people who have raced with Durian Rider in Adelaide, and I know Bigbwii has eated cooked food within the past few years.

 

2. I think you have totally missed the point of this article. Humans grow slower than cows because it is impractical from an evolutionary sense to have a baby that doubles in size every few weeks. Humans are dependant on their mother for the first few YEARS of their life, if they grew rapidly then the mother would be unable to take care of them (carry them etc). It is much more important for the BRAIN of the baby to develop, this is why Human milk is low in protein. The Amino acids are things such as TAURINE - which is NOT in fruit! The human brain stops growing etc in Childhood, Adults need to maintain muscles etc, not build a brain. So your argument that bones and muscles are already built is seriously flawed. Babies do not tear muscles or damage themselves from physical activites, Adults do, This is why Adults have a minimum protein requirement, with out it our muscles wither and our health suffers.

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1.some don't eat nuts or very little nuts and seeds (tim, durian rider, bigbwii)

2.it's just they're smaller, so of course we need larger amount of food, but same % of proteins; proof: the fruitarians.

By mentioning that article, are you saying that human babies grow slower than other animals because of the human milk ? Humans are not designed according to their milk, it is the human milk who is designed to human requirements. Feeding a baby with cow milk won't make him grow faster or bigger, on the contrary it would harm its growth.

 

Once we're growth, we probably need even less proteins, because brain, bones and muscles are built; all tissue, hair, all cells only need to regenerate. If you're a bodybuilder, you're still a human (growing slowly) so you don't need lots of proteins, except if you become inhuman/superhuman by injecting yourself extra hormones.

 

1. To be honest I really don't believe any of the claims that Tim? Durian rider or bigbwii make. I don't know any of them personally, but I know people who have raced with Durian Rider in Adelaide, and I know Bigbwii has eated cooked food within the past few years.

 

2. I think you have totally missed the point of this article. Humans grow slower than cows because it is impractical from an evolutionary sense to have a baby that doubles in size every few weeks. Humans are dependant on their mother for the first few YEARS of their life, if they grew rapidly then the mother would be unable to take care of them (carry them etc). It is much more important for the BRAIN of the baby to develop, this is why Human milk is low in protein. The Amino acids are things such as TAURINE - which is NOT in fruit! The human brain stops growing etc in Childhood, Adults need to maintain muscles etc, not build a brain. So your argument that bones and muscles are already built is seriously flawed. Babies do not tear muscles or damage themselves from physical activites, Adults do, This is why Adults have a minimum protein requirement, with out it our muscles wither and our health suffers.

Lol as if I didn't know all that, you're just repeating what I've read and heard a million times. I understand the article. But when you say :

It is much more important for the BRAIN of the baby to develop, this is why Human milk is low in protein.
... human milk is low in protein because babies don't need more proteins and even is human milk was higher in proteins, the baby wouldn't grow faster, it is already growing as fast as a human/baby can grow. And like the article says, raw, top quality amino acids of the breastmilk are the most effective, not some milk alternative. I guess we can apply this natural law to all ages, all species; artificial, cooked, synthetic, supplement stuff are less effective. I don't see why it would only apply to babies.
The Amino acids are things such as TAURINE - which is NOT in fruit! The human brain stops growing etc in Childhood' date=' Adults need to maintain muscles etc, not build a brain.[/quote'] LOL! that's the point. Why would there be taurine in fruits, you just said it's for the brain and that our brain is built once we're adult. What does it make if there's no taurine in fruits, it's not even an essential amino acid. ahaha all this is so funny
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Feeding a baby with cow milk won't make him grow faster or bigger, on the contrary it would harm its growth.

Actually yes it does - Ignoring the obvious ludicrousness of feeding the milk of another species to a baby, of course.

Studies have indicated that feeding formula's or cows milk to babies increase growth rates and obesity due to the higher protein content. It also increases obesity in Adults.

 

Once we're growth, we probably need even less proteins, because brain, bones and muscles are built; all tissue, hair, all cells only need to regenerate. If you're a bodybuilder, you're still a human (growing slowly) so you don't need lots of proteins, except if you become inhuman/superhuman by injecting yourself extra hormones.

Explain to me then why I lose Strength and muscle mass when I don't get enough protein?

 

human milk is low in protein because babies don't need more proteins and even is human milk was higher in proteins, the baby wouldn't grow faster, it is already growing as fast as a human/baby can grow. And like the article says, raw, top quality amino acids of the breastmilk are the most effective, not some milk alternative. I guess we can apply this natural law to all ages, all species; artificial, cooked, synthetic, supplement stuff are less effective. I don't see why it would only apply to babies. LOL! that's the point. Why would there be taurine in fruits, you just said it's for the brain and that our brain is built once we're adult. What does it make if there's no taurine in fruits, it's not even an essential amino acid. ahaha all this is so funny

 

All I can say is arrgghhhhh.... I'm not sure if it is me not articulating myself clearly or something else....

 

I pointed out that fact that there is no Taurine in fruit, because you are comparing Human Milk and Fruit and referring to amino acids! You can't do this It's like comparing apples and oranges or Prada and Old Navy. It is not a valid comparisson because they have a totally different compositions and a totally different purposes and it is for this reason that this is a flawed analogy.

 

Here is an article that proves my point - Using your logic. The top quality raw amino acids that this fruitarian baby was consuming should have caused it to thrive and grow, it didn't, it died of malnutrition.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1542293.stm

 

You cannot compare the nutritional requirements, growth rates or metabolic processes of a Adult to that of a Baby.

Do Caterpillars eat the same thing as a butterfly - NO

Do Tadpoles eat the same thing as a Frog - NO

 

To make more sense and to present a valid argument, you need to stop these analogies and present some more valid arguments.

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Feeding a baby with cow milk won't make him grow faster or bigger, on the contrary it would harm its growth.

Actually yes it does - Ignoring the obvious ludicrousness of feeding the milk of another species to a baby, of course.

Studies have indicated that feeding formula's or cows milk to babies increase growth rates and obesity due to the higher protein content. It also increases obesity in Adults.

that puts more fat, it's not making grow faster. If it makes grow faster, then what your article say is wrong because it says human milk is optimum and all the rest give disappointing results

 

Once we're growth, we probably need even less proteins, because brain, bones and muscles are built; all tissue, hair, all cells only need to regenerate. If you're a bodybuilder, you're still a human (growing slowly) so you don't need lots of proteins, except if you become inhuman/superhuman by injecting yourself extra hormones.

Explain to me then why I lose Strength and muscle mass when I don't get enough protein?
I guess that's because your usual proteins are cooked, you need a lot. Are you eating enough fruits and raw greens ? I don't know, perhaps the cooked food inhibits the benefits of raw, and when you eat more it compensates, how would I know ?

 

human milk is low in protein because babies don't need more proteins and even is human milk was higher in proteins, the baby wouldn't grow faster, it is already growing as fast as a human/baby can grow. And like the article says, raw, top quality amino acids of the breastmilk are the most effective, not some milk alternative. I guess we can apply this natural law to all ages, all species; artificial, cooked, synthetic, supplement stuff are less effective. I don't see why it would only apply to babies. LOL! that's the point. Why would there be taurine in fruits, you just said it's for the brain and that our brain is built once we're adult. What does it make if there's no taurine in fruits, it's not even an essential amino acid. ahaha all this is so funny

All I can say is arrgghhhhh.... I'm not sure if it is me not articulating myself clearly or something else....

 

I pointed out that fact that there is no Taurine in fruit, because you are comparing Human Milk and Fruit and referring to amino acids! You can't do this It's like comparing apples and oranges or Prada and Old Navy. It is not a valid comparisson because they have a totally different compositions and a totally different purposes and it is for this reason that this is a flawed analogy.

 

You cannot compare the nutritional requirements, growth rates or metabolic processes of a Adult to that of a Baby.

Do Caterpillars eat the same thing as a butterfly - NO

Do Tadpoles eat the same thing as a Frog - NO

 

To make more sense and to present a valid argument, you need to stop these analogies and present some more valid arguments.

valid arguments about what ? I don't even know what you want. You're the one who posted that article about babies and brains. Babies don't eat fruits and are not supposed to eat food before the age of 2 years old or until they have a full dentition. You want to know if fruits and nothing else can build muscles, right ? Well all I can say is that it easily maintain a decent lean mass even without lifting weights and even with low calorie intake, judging from the athletes I mentionned. Bigbwii ate cooked food some years ago... yeah so what ? If it can build mass, I don't know, ask a fruitarian. People who say that the 3 fruitarians mentioned are liars/cheaters or I don't know exactly what you mean... are you saying they hide in their room to eat mountains of pastas, only to claim to the medias they thrive entirely on fruits ? I follow their log, vlog, blog, they seem like honnest people. You guys are jealous or what ?
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that puts more fat, it's not making grow faster. If it makes grow faster, then what your article say is wrong because it says human milk is optimum and all the rest give disappointing results

 

Human Milk is optimal - Faster growth in a human baby is not a necessarily a good thing, this is why formula's are being made with a low protein content now.

 

Are you eating enough fruits and raw greens ? I don't know, perhaps the cooked food inhibits the benefits of raw, and when you eat more it compensates, how would I know ?

 

I eat raw food all the time - Greens, Raw Vegetables and fruits are part of any balanced vegan diet. I have also been 100% raw in the past, this is when I lost significant strength and muscle mass.

 

valid arguments about what ? I don't even know what you want. You're the one who posted that article about babies and brains. Babies don't eat fruits and are not supposed to eat food before the age of 2 years old or until they have a full dentition. You want to know if fruits and nothing else can build muscles, right ? Well all I can say is that it easily maintain a decent lean mass even without lifting weights and even with low calorie intake, judging from the athletes I mentionned. Bigbwii ate cooked food some years ago... yeah so what ? If it can build mass, I don't know, ask a fruitarian. People who say that the 3 fruitarians mentioned are liars/cheaters or I don't know exactly what you mean... are you saying they hide in their room to eat mountains of pastas, only to claim to the medias they thrive entirely on fruits ? I follow their log, vlog, blog, they seem like honnest people. You guys are jealous or what ?

 

Ok, I'm going to try and answer this before I have an aneurysm (Seriously my head is sort of throbbing)

You posted an article about human milk and related it to fruit - So I posted an article explaining why the protein content of human milk is low.

 

You can say whatever you like and claim whatever you like in a log or blog and never have to prove a shred of it, that is the nature of the internet.

 

Jealous,

I have credibility and Transparency, I have Trained with Robert, Josh, Offense to name a few, and they have seen how big I am and how much I lift as well as how much I eat. These people do not.

 

What do I want - Articles or factual information that is logical and to the point, explaining how a person can maintain and build muscle using a food source that has a protein content less than the recommended minimum intake.

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Explain to me then why I lose Strength and muscle mass when I don't get enough protein?

 

I can think of three Raw Vegans that have physically experienced this.... they were (and are) Raw Vegans and could not gain any size or keep any amount of lean muscle mass on as a Raw Vegan.

 

One is a personal trainer at my gym. GORGEOUS girl who has won figure competitions. When I asked her how she is able to have such beautifully sculpted shoulders and amazing muscle while Raw, she said that she was very skinny until she added Raw Brown Rice protein. She said she tried and tried to get muscle with just raw foods, but not until she added the protein did she gain and keep her muscle tone.

 

Lean and Green attributes the Spirulina (which I believe he took in at least 80 to 100 grams daily) to allowing him to keep so much muscle during his Juice Feast. If he woulda listened to me and not gone on 3 hour runs, he would've kept even more muscle but that's another story...

 

Also, there is a girl on this board who doesen't post very often who went Raw and couldn't regain her muscle and strength until she added back in the protein.

 

These are all people who have personal first hand experience at this. I think that maybe there are SOME people who can genetically gain muscle easily and keep SOME of their muscle with a fruit diet or all RAw diet, but most need the protein to gain any size... and that's not an opinion... that's from actually talking to people who have done both...

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Just wanted to add that the body can synthesize its own building blocks from resources that are available. Though not everybody can do this, as we all have different enzyme vocabularies (genetics). And will it be optimal for an athlete? I guess it does if it works for them, and they are satisfied with the results. (Some are not, as thus will do something else). If it doesn't work for the athlete but does it blindly anyways, then that is what he has chosen (and the results speak for themselves).

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