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Who Are You Voting For President?


veggieprincess
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Who Are Your Voting For For President?  

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But in a society in which people vote and legislate based on their personal opinions of others, pretending there's a difference between political and personal is irresponsible. That's part of the democratic process. You can vote your personal feelings. I just feel you should own them, too, even if it renders your platitudes hypocritical.

 

As to the minority being the minority, what did de Tocqueville say about the "tyranny of the majority?" And why do we normally not have to worry about it in America?

I still don't care what other people think of me, and you're still trying to blame me for all the ills of the world. Are you trying to say that only my opinion and vote are platitudes of hypocracy? Well look in the mirror my friend, and if you answer yes. Than you think you're better than me, and if that's the case there is no more need for dialog.

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But in a society in which people vote and legislate based on their personal opinions of others, pretending there's a difference between political and personal is irresponsible. That's part of the democratic process. You can vote your personal feelings. I just feel you should own them, too, even if it renders your platitudes hypocritical.

 

As to the minority being the minority, what did de Tocqueville say about the "tyranny of the majority?" And why do we normally not have to worry about it in America?

I still don't care what other people think of me, and you're still try to blame me for all the ills of the world. Are you trying to say that only my opinion and vote are platitudes of hypocracy? Well look in the mirror my friend, and if you answer yes. Than you think you're better than me, and if that's the case there is no more need for dialog.

You may not care what other people think of you, but you formed your statement to apply to all people, not just yourself. If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but then there was no point saying it in the first place. There's a big jump from "I don't care what other people think of me" to "it doesn't make a difference what other people think of you," after all.

 

I haven't blamed you for anything. I even said I think your opinion on gay marriage is reasonable. I just take issue with you espousing an ethic which you clearly believe only applies to certain cases. And no, of course you're not the only hypocrite around. But you're the biggest one in this thread. And I don't think you understand why the minority is safe in America.

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You may not care what other people think of you, but you formed your statement to apply to all people, not just yourself. If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but then there was no point saying it in the first place. There's a big jump from "I don't care what other people think of me" to "it doesn't make a difference what other people think of you," after all.

 

I haven't blamed you for anything. I even said I think your opinion on gay marriage is reasonable. I just take issue with you espousing an ethic which you clearly believe only applies to certain cases. And no, of course you're not the only hypocrite around. But you're the biggest one in this thread. And I don't think you understand why the minority is safe in America.

The minority is not safe in any country, but probably more safe in this country.

What you're saying is that because I don't care what other people think of me, I don't get a right to my own opinion?

 

And no, of course you're not the only hypocrite around. But you're the biggest one in this thread.

Does calling me names because I have different opinions than you do, make you feel better?

Because the hipocracy lies in the fact that you think you are better than me.

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You may not care what other people think of you, but you formed your statement to apply to all people, not just yourself. If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but then there was no point saying it in the first place. There's a big jump from "I don't care what other people think of me" to "it doesn't make a difference what other people think of you," after all.

 

I haven't blamed you for anything. I even said I think your opinion on gay marriage is reasonable. I just take issue with you espousing an ethic which you clearly believe only applies to certain cases. And no, of course you're not the only hypocrite around. But you're the biggest one in this thread. And I don't think you understand why the minority is safe in America.

The minority is not safe in any country, but probably more safe in this country.

What you're saying is that because I don't care what other people think of me, I don't get a right to my own opinion?

You can certainly have your opinions. I'm just trying to get you to see that they're mutually incompatible, so even if you say you believe both, it can't be true. Of course, if you're switching over to just "I don't care what other people think about me," then they work together just fine, but it makes your initial statement way back in this thread pretty pointless. It also makes your defensiveness pretty mystifying.

 

And the reason the minority is safe in this country is that the collective majority is never actually in power, even to the extent that such a majority actually exists. It's a myth. You can't ignore the influence of incentivism in collective activities, the fact that a "majority" opinion is usually just a grouping of minority opinions sufficiently similar to appear as one for a specific purpose, and the distorting effect of lobbyists and representatives.

 

And no, of course you're not the only hypocrite around. But you're the biggest one in this thread.

Does calling me names because I have different opinions than you do, make you feel better?

Because the hipocracy lies in the fact that you think you are better than me.

No, I'd feel better if I could get you to see things differently. Everything I've said is toward that effort. And "better than" is a very vague and subjective term which is surely true in some cases and not in others. Regardless, that's not what hypocrisy means.

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And the reason the minority is safe in this country is

Hummm, I bet you'ld have a hard time convincing some gay or sikh who just got the shit kicked out of him. of that.

Here is another question for you. My wife bought this sign home and put it in the yard. It was "VOTE YES ON 8" (MARRIAGE INNITATIVE). I suggested that she take the sign down, because I feared for our personal and property damage. (she has yet to take it down.) Yet I feel that if it was a sign that said "VOTE NO ON 8" I would have nothing in the way of personal or property damage to worry about.

And don't cop out by calling me a homophobe. How about a real answer, without calling me names for having my own beliefs.

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And the reason the minority is safe in this country is

Hummm, I bet you'ld have a hard time convincing some gay or sikh who just got the shit kicked out of him. of that.

Here is another question for you. My wife bought this sign home and put it in the yard. It was "VOTE YES ON 8" (MARRIAGE INNITATIVE). I suggested that she take the sign down, because I feared for our personal and property damage. (she has yet to take it down.) Yet I feel that if it was a sign that said "VOTE NO ON 8" I would have nothing in the way of personal or property damage to worry about.

And don't cop out by calling me a homophobe. How about a real answer, without calling me names for having my own beliefs.

I'm not sure what the question is, but I feel you should have the right to put up any signs you want on your own property without having people harass you. (Unless the signs are unbelievably offensive or profane, and that's only because kids might see them.) And I've never called you a homophobe. I apologize if you think I have. I don't equate not approving of gay marriage with homophobia.

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I'm not sure what the question is, but I feel you should have the right to put up any signs you want on your own property without having people harass you. (Unless the signs are unbelievably offensive or profane, and that's only because kids might see them.) And I've never called you a homophobe. I apologize if you think I have. I don't equate not approving of gay marriage with homophobia.

Thank you, for the kinds words.

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I don't put anarchist stickers on my car just for the same reasons you wanted the sign down in your yard. I'll wear a shirt which is offensive, I don't mind if people come at me, but dont try to break my stuff since it can't fight back. A friend of mine had some anti abortion and pro vegan stickers on his car and somebody scratched em all up and it happened in the same time span. Very strange.

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Gays have never before had the right to marriage.

 

Really? Never seems to encompass a whole lot of time. Even pre-Christianity maybe Roman/Greek era? Maybe in 'non-western' traditions?

Why don't you just come right out with it:

"You don't like me"

I can get over it.

 

It was just a question(s).

 

-a

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hmmmm...

 

read this whole thread because there seemed to be alot of hullaballoo, and I thought I had missed something.

 

Turns out... it merely seems that Vegan Joe is against Gay Marriage.

 

Although I don't agree with his stance... he does seem to be taking alot of flack for that statement.

 

Having said that... I can't help but think a few of his comments seem unneccessarily defensive when a few people are just trying to get "clear".

 

Vegan Joe... in my book your simply a person against Gay Marriage and I don't necessarily agree with that. . Although if you were one of the McCain votes...I do so wish you'd see the bigger picture of that ramification...but what can I do??? That is my opinion and this is America...

 

Anyways... Vegan Joe... even if I don't agree with some of your stances... you do you thang cuz that is one of the beautiful things that still exists in America. The consitution.... The 1st Ammendment... "Freedom of Speech".

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I must say this quite a issue? Sound like the prolife and abortion issue....

 

I think yeah freedom of speech is great and everyone has a right to their opinion. Is it ignorant to believe gays should not be married well I think yeah a little. If gays relationships are accepted then why not accept that they can get married. Who should care anyway if gays want to get married. Their are states that allow it and well they can get married there. If you don't like that move to a state where it is not welcome. That is one great thing about having different states. People can live where they feel most comfortable. I think the idea is ignorant not that Vegan Joe is. The more you get to understand cultures and people one becomes more accepting of the world and stops trying to put labels and restrictions on them.

 

I think like some guy on the bus tried to evangelize to me , so I let him talk. I am not religious but it was what he wanted to say. He was like God this, Jesus that.... and so on. It seems that I could have been fighting it and told him that why is he pushing that on me. He seemed happy and I thought that is what motivated him. I think that was what was important. As much as some don't think gay marriage is right, the truth is is it really going to stop you from living your life. Is it harming your family is it removing you from every day happiness? no! It is just a belief. So if gay couples seem happy because the idea brings joy to their life that let it be. I think if something does not harm someone or something then let it be. We need more happiness in this life and more friends and less anger and hate. Next time you disagree with the person maybe try to rationalize and put your self in the persons shoes what if it were me what would I want.

 

watch this episode peeps!

IN 30 DAYS

http://www.hulu.com/watch/5293/30-days-straight-man-in-a-gay-world#s-p2-so-i0

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freedom of speech baby!

 

Debates kick butt. I respect everyone's opinion that is for sure. I would not say it is judging. I think anyone argues a point if it they say it is fact then you need to show evidence if you say it is opinion well that is yours to hold and people can't take that away .... "that is truely sacred."

 

That is why topics of all sorts come on this board because if we all agreed all the time on everything I think it would just be boring.

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Just thought I'd share that I might be going to a Barack Obama/Hilary Clinton rally on Monday. I couldn't figure out what to do for my birthday, and then I got an email about this free rally. It would be so cool to go, it seems this year I have finally gotten into politics! I can only imagine the insanity in Downtown, Orlando on Monday, especially with the election coming up in a matter of days now.

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Gays have never before had the right to marriage.

 

Really? Never seems to encompass a whole lot of time. Even pre-Christianity maybe Roman/Greek era? Maybe in 'non-western' traditions?

Why don't you just come right out with it:

"You don't like me"

I can get over it.

 

So, if someone disagrees with you, or as above, points out that your assumptions are just flat out wrong, then they "don't like you"? Are you actually interested in debating the issue, or just trolling?

 

http://communitiesonline.homestead.com/files/troll_2.jpg

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So, if someone disagrees with you, or as above, points out that your assumptions are just flat out wrong, then they "don't like you"? Are you actually interested in debating the issue, or just trolling?

http://communitiesonline.homestead.com/files/troll_2.jpg

Why don't you just come right out with it:

"You really like me, and you want be my friend,

and that you are willing to overlook all the short comings that I may have."

What can I say? Thanks for posting this for me.

Love,

Vegan Joe

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Why don't you just come right out with it:

"You really like me, and you want be my friend,

and that you are willing to overlook all the short comings that I may have."

What can I say? Thanks for posting this for me.

Love,

Vegan Joe

 

Dear Joe,

 

I try not to feed the trolls, but I like your letter , so I'll make an exception.

I don't know you, so I don't know if I really like you.

I already have plenty of friends.

The only shortcoming that I know you have is a lack of knowledge of history, I can overlook that for now.

You're welcome, nothing like a good troll pic to liven things up.

Love? Do you really love me Joe? I mean, I might be some random married homosexual. You don't know me.

 

Feeder of the trolls,

Michael

 

PS Is it still gay marriage if it's between a man and a woman and one or both of them are gay? Maybe we need a questionaire and lie detector test before marriage.

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The only shortcoming that I know you have is a lack of knowledge of history, I can overlook that for now.

My point, although many didn't get it. I was talking about recent history, ya know like in US history. the thing we are dealing with.

No matter what I say, people will think they know how I feel about gay people, So see me as you will, I'm not going to try to change your perception. Little of what I can say would give you greater understanding. But what many don't seems to get is the implications to the loss of religious freedoms.

 

 

"Properly framed civic tolerance stems from ideas core to our national identity: that all must respect the exercise of inalienable rights and ensure their fundamental protection in the constitution. But respect does not imply relativism -- indifference to or acceptance of all behavior -- nor does it negate the right of society to determine standards. Quite the opposite is true.

 

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy argued that "unbounded relativism as a civic philosophy soon becomes passivity and indifference: No judgments can be made, for it is impossible to place one set of values over another. This is a far cry from toleration derived from a belief in universal rights. If, in the civic sphere, relativism swallows tolerance whole, belief in universal rights turns into no belief at all" (American Bar Association, August 2003, italics added)."

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