For those who think the Iraq war is costing to much money.

[Vegan Joe]

I can see it know:

How some people will pull the race card on me here because I care about how my tax dollar is spent.

Some people don't really want to understand the truth.

 

AN EDUCATION TO ALL WHO ARE AMERICANS...

 

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

 

Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the

war on terror that is bankrupting us.

 

I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

 

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

 

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC,

and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here

illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens,

known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American

taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

 

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white

non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

 

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border

also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine,

meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

 

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimat ed that the tot al cost of mass deportation would be between

$206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

 

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

 

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants

In The United States'. Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

 

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Are we THAT stupid?

[offense74]

I'd say a fair deal of cheap labour from Mexico are contributing to your cheap groceries. Your clothes are probably not made in America. In fact in everything you own, ware or eat, there's something not American (probably most of it isn't). I think it's fair to share some of your earnings from the system that gives you the cheap prices with the ones that feed you and clothe you.

 

I'm proud to contribute to helping people flee from dictators, wars, revolutions and fundamental religiosity.

[xjohanx]

I don't understand what you want to achieve with this post? Do you just want to educate or do you want the US to stop immigration? Do you want the "aliens" to die, be sick, undeducated and forced back to their old countrys?

As I said before, Sweden probably has among the highest income tax in the world and def the highest VAT but if I knew that my money was going to healthcare, education and food assistance I would be pretty happy (and I couldn't care less if the person was from Sweden, the US, Poland or Mexico).

[Vegan Joe]

I'm proud to contribute to helping people flee from dictators, wars, revolutions and fundamental religiosity.

Yeah me too It's called Legal immigration. Not to mention the billions of dollars in aid we give to other countries.

[Vegan Joe]

I don't understand what you want to achieve with this post? Do you just want to educate or do you want the US to stop immigration? Do you want the "aliens" to die, be sick, undeducated and forced back to their old countrys?

As I said before, Sweden probably has among the highest income tax in the world and def the highest VAT but if I knew that my money was going to healthcare, education and food assistance I would be pretty happy (and I couldn't care less if the person was from Sweden, the US, Poland or Mexico).

See Like I said people like you will come out of the wood owrk to call me a racist. You put it right there in your brackets. Legal immagration bud. Know the difference?

[xjohanx]

I don't understand what you want to achieve with this post? Do you just want to educate or do you want the US to stop immigration? Do you want the "aliens" to die, be sick, undeducated and forced back to their old countrys?

As I said before, Sweden probably has among the highest income tax in the world and def the highest VAT but if I knew that my money was going to healthcare, education and food assistance I would be pretty happy (and I couldn't care less if the person was from Sweden, the US, Poland or Mexico).

See Like I said people like you will come out of the wood owrk to call me a racist. You put it right there in your brackets. Legal immagration bud. Know the difference?

 

What are you talking about????? Where in my post did I call you a racist? I never implied so either. I asked a simple question. It's like you want me to call you a racist. I don't believe you are a racist. I just think that we have very different opinions when it comes to immigration.

[Vegan Joe]

I just think that we have very different opinions when it comes to immigration.

Yeah, I believe in legal immigration and you believe in illegal immigration.

LOL

[xjohanx]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

[Vegan Joe]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

With a little thought you might understand how ludicrous this would be in the real world.

Laws are laws until the people change them.

[vivalasvegans]

I wanna address your whole first post, Veganjoe, but I kind of feel like it's flamebait. There are a lot of inaccuracies and misrepresentations in it. Did you post it to get an honest inquiry and discussion going, or to get people mad? I don't get it.

 

One thing I would like to hit on though is the figures on undocumented immigrants use of services. It is true, some "illegals" use services, but they also pay taxes. Compare the numbers and you'll find that undocumented immigrants in the US pay more $ in taxes than the amount of services they use. It's a net monetary gain for the US government.

 

I think that those kinds of emaily propaganda list things are nasty because they just serve to rile people up and shut down discussion and critical thinking.

[xjohanx]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

With a little thought you might understand how ludicrous this would be in the real world.

Laws are laws until the people change them.

 

With a little thought you might understand that these "aliens" are real people and have real families and real problems that they might need help with. And if we don't help them they might die.

 

Did you post it to get an honest inquiry and discussion going, or to get people mad? I don't get it.

I asked the same thing. He just said that I called him a racist

[offense74]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

Exactly.

[Vegan Joe]

One thing I would like to hit on though is the figures on undocumented immigrants use of services. It is true, some "illegals" use services, but they also pay taxes. Compare the numbers and you'll find that undocumented immigrants in the US pay more $ in taxes than the amount of services they use. It's a net monetary gain for the US government..

Now this is what you say. Have anything to back up your Opinion?

Did you feel baited?

 

inaccuracies and misrepresentations

Prove them, Talk is cheap.

[Vegan Joe]

With a little thought you might understand that these "aliens" are real people and have real families and real problems that they might need help with. And if we don't help them they might die.

This is not the case. and for you to imply that this is the exact situation only further weakens your argument for illegal immigration .

vivalasvegans wrote:

Did you post it to get an honest inquiry and discussion going, or to get people mad? I don't get it.

 

I asked the same thing. He just said that I called him a racist

Apparently you both have trouble dealing with the truth and your only argument againt it is to call me names.

[Vegan Joe]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

Exactly.

Another one who dreams outside the realm of reality.

[tuc]

U.S. economics would be deeply and really heavily f***ed up if there were no illegal aliens. Fruits would be a LOT more expensive and huge amounts of people would have no housemaids. Hundreds of thousands of people from Mexico and other central American countries are working in clothing industry -> American clothes would be a lot more expensive without illegal aliens.

 

Spain gave ALL the illegal aliens civil rights a few years ago. It solved many of the problems. You should try that too.

 

Also, in Europe if there's a rich country somewhere, ALL the neighbor countries become rich too very soon. U.S. is the richest country in the world but still the countries to the south of U.S. are developing countries. With fair trade & proper economics Mexico and other central American countries would be so rich already that no one would want to move to U.S...

 

I really like many U.S. citizens but I think American foreign policy sucks major ass.

[loveliberate]

I'm with Johan on this discussion & I'd much rather see the money spent on helping feed & educate people rather then on war.

[offense74]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

Exactly.

Another one who dreams outside the realm of reality.

And when did we start dreaming? How many generations have your family been American?

[Vegan Joe]

U.S. economics would be deeply and really heavily f***ed up if there were no illegal aliens. Fruits would be a LOT more expensive and huge amounts of people would have no housemaids. Hundreds of thousands of people from Mexico and other central American countries are working in clothing industry -> American clothes would be a lot more expensive without illegal aliens.

 

Spain gave ALL the illegal aliens civil rights a few years ago. It solved many of the problems. You should try that too.

 

Also, in Europe if there's a rich country somewhere, ALL the neighbor countries become rich too very soon. U.S. is the richest country in the world but still the countries to the south of U.S. are developing countries. With fair trade & proper economics Mexico and other central American countries would be so rich already that no one would want to move to U.S...

 

I really like many U.S. citizens but I think American foreign policy sucks major ass.

Funny how Finlanders and the like know so much about US economic and forien policies. LOL

Back up yopur assumption with some proof. It nice nto talk all that fluffy stuff but in reality the country would do fine with LEGAL immagration. Yes I know my hamburger would cost more. But I'm willing to pay more to see more people live within the confines of the law.

[Vegan Joe]

I believe in every persons right to move across any border at any time. It's yours and other countrys governments that has made it "illegal".

Exactly.

And when did we start dreaming? How many generations have your family been American?

the dreaming that I am Talking about it the fact that people think this would accully work in the real world.

Still has nothing to do with something that is illegal. I'm all for compassion, but I also for civility and living within the law.

[Im Your Man]

I don't agree with all the stuff in that post...

 

-first, it is not because there are some wastes of money (like people who eat meat and junk and then are sick and it raises the health care) that the war in Iraq becomes justifiable. We should eradicate all problems and not accept any.

 

-Illegal immigration saves lives, the war in Iraq kills lives.

Not all illegal immigrants are terrorists or whatever. Most of them live in miserable conditions and just want to improve their life. It is not their fault if they are considered Illegal, it's the governments who chose this. The governments and multinationals just want the poors to stay in their country so they can use them for a pittance.

[Im Your Man]

It's funny because as I was reading the original post that started this debate, I fell constantly on the word Alien, in French we only use this word for visitors of outter space, like in the movie series "Alien", never for inhabitants of the same planet we all live.

[Vegan Joe]

-Illegal immigration saves lives, the war in Iraq kills lives.

That's laughable, to think in absolutes.

[CollegeB]

Edited October 20, 2008 by CollegeB

[CollegeB]

War, Taxes, and Borders are all instituted by government force so it can maintain itself. It all sucks. The opposite is Freedom. Freedom to travel for new opportunities is great, there should be more.

 

 

http://www.bureaucrashcontraband.com/immigreat.html

 

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/collegeb/yhst-97394442678697_2021_1983596.gif