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For those who think the Iraq war is costing to much money.


Vegan Joe
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With your mentality, you should be happy and find yourself lucky that the laws for illegal immigration are so strict in your country, most illegal immigrants found are expelled from the country right away and those caught trespassing the frontier illegally can be shot.

 

You should come see how easier it is to emigrate in Quebec, for the good of those who want to. Immigrants, legal or not, don't bother me more than caucasians, I myself work sometimes for undeclared income, paid under the table, or however we call this in English, and I know many caucasians do it. Many white CEO's do what they gotta do to avoid paying taxes, and to receive allocations and grants from the government as if they needed any, some political leaders doing misappropriations of public funds to buy themselves a new yatch, or to spend billions of dollars just to bomb a country and kill their citizens, multinationals and other multibillionaires who do transfers of funds in bank accounts to the Fiji islands or no matter where. Some of these guys steal $200 million or more, EACH. These swindlers steal way more money from your pocket than some poor illegal Mexican immigrant earning 20$ per day washing dishes !

 

 

When the rich will stop to steal the money of the poor, the poors won't need to steal.

So as you see it: breaking the law is OK as long as it benifits you. Gee that's a great philosophy for life.

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With your mentality, you should be happy and find yourself lucky that the laws for illegal immigration are so strict in your country, most illegal immigrants found are expelled from the country right away and those caught trespassing the frontier illegally can be shot.

 

You should come see how easier it is to emigrate in Quebec, for the good of those who want to. Immigrants, legal or not, don't bother me more than caucasians, I myself work sometimes for undeclared income, paid under the table, or however we call this in English, and I know many caucasians do it. Many white CEO's do what they gotta do to avoid paying taxes, and to receive allocations and grants from the government as if they needed any, some political leaders doing misappropriations of public funds to buy themselves a new yatch, or to spend billions of dollars just to bomb a country and kill their citizens, multinationals and other multibillionaires who do transfers of funds in bank accounts to the Fiji islands or no matter where. Some of these guys steal $200 million or more, EACH. These swindlers steal way more money from your pocket than some poor illegal Mexican immigrant earning 20$ per day washing dishes !

 

 

When the rich will stop to steal the money of the poor, the poors won't need to steal.

So as you see it: breaking the law is OK as long as it benifits you. Gee that's a great philosophy for life.

I never understand your replies. What benefits me ?
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Let's look at other bullshit here.

 

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here

illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

 

I do know that your education system has flaws but it's REALLY childish to think that after spending 12 billion USD they still can't speak English? GROW UP!

 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens,

known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

Anchor babies are NOT illegal aliens even though their parents are. If you are born in the U.S. and still live in the U.S. you are not illegal alien. Still you think that money is going to "illegal aliens". How would you feel that someone told you that you are an illegal alien even though you would live in the same country you were BORN!

 

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

Your source says: "taxpayers spend more than $3 million every day to house non-U.S. citizen dollars in our federal prisons. Most are thought to be illegal aliens."

 

"MOST ARE THOUGHT" = in your terms "ALL".

 

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

Same as above: "30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens." <- they aren't all illegal aliens.

 

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American

taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

 

Could not verify that from source.

 

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

F**KING BULLSHIT!!! Your source says: "That economy, we know the estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year, as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal."

 

MOST OF THE IMMIGRANTS ARE LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, YOU GET THEM OVER 1 MILLION MORE EVERY YEAR!!!!! You have like 12 million illegal aliens which is way less than what you get with the rate of 1 million per year from legal immigration. LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!

 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white

non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

 

Could not verify that from source.

 

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

 

Could not verify that from source, the URL of the source for that number in the URL you pasted here doesn't work.

 

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants

In The United States'. Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

 

This was considered bullshit already in earlier posts.

 

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Are we THAT stupid?

 

Only you are that stupid to believe everything you read from the Internets. How can anyone be so blind to the facts?

 

I think you owe an apology to the people for telling lies. Even if you just copy paste LIES which are practically racist, you are a liar! Liar!

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Let's look at other bullshit here.

 

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here

illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

 

I do know that your education system has flaws but it's REALLY childish to think that after spending 12 billion USD they still can't speak English? GROW UP!

 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens,

known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

Anchor babies are NOT illegal aliens even though their parents are. If you are born in the U.S. and still live in the U.S. you are not illegal alien. Still you think that money is going to "illegal aliens". How would you feel that someone told you that you are an illegal alien even though you would live in the same country you were BORN!

 

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

Your source says: "taxpayers spend more than $3 million every day to house non-U.S. citizen dollars in our federal prisons. Most are thought to be illegal aliens."

 

"MOST ARE THOUGHT" = in your terms "ALL".

 

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

Same as above: "30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens." <- they aren't all illegal aliens.

 

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American

taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

 

Could not verify that from source.

 

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

 

F**KING BULLSHIT!!! Your source says: "That economy, we know the estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year, as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal."

 

MOST OF THE IMMIGRANTS ARE LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, YOU GET THEM OVER 1 MILLION MORE EVERY YEAR!!!!! You have like 12 million illegal aliens which is way less than what you get with the rate of 1 million per year from legal immigration. LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!

 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white

non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

 

Could not verify that from source.

 

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

 

Could not verify that from source, the URL of the source for that number in the URL you pasted here doesn't work.

 

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants

In The United States'. Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

 

This was considered bullshit already in earlier posts.

 

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Are we THAT stupid?

 

Only you are that stupid to believe everything you read from the Internets. How can anyone be so blind to the facts?

 

I think you owe an apology to the people for telling lies. Even if you just copy paste LIES which are practically racist, you are a liar! Liar!

You know you call me a liar. Yet you have given no credible sources for any of your rebuttles, only information according to Tuc.

It's as if you believe that illegal immigration is costing the taxpayer nothing.

Please stop calling me names, unless you think this is the only way you can win a debate.

PS I don't think I owe anyone an apology. I think you owe us some substanial resources to support you side of the argument.

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I used your sources!!! YOUR OWN SOURCES to prove you're WRONG!

 

I have to add something. Even if your own source say that: "That economy, we know the estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year, as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal." ...that is not something money is LOST in since it keeps the inflation low. As a result, purchasing power parity is higher which means that the 200 billion is just a number and the people in the U.S. can buy about as much stuff (or maybe even more) as they could without immigration (MOST OF WHICH IS LEGAL).

 

You stated "facts" which are INCORRECT and you can verify what I say if you look at YOUR OWN SOURCES (from which I even copy&pasted the lines for your convenience!). For what do I need more resources? CHECK YOUR OWN SOURCES AND YOU'LL SEE YOU ARE WRONG. W-R-O-N-G.

 

Your whole land was built on immigration. How much did that cost? Even if you think illegal immigration is a problem THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT TO LIE TO US! You really don't have a problem saying things that aren't true if you think it is needed to make people hate illegal immigrants? That is something we saw in Germany in 1930's and it's called propaganda.

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You can bury your head in the sand for as long as you want.

You can call people names.

You can try to disprove anything.

But the bottom line is "This is a major problem facing our country".

You can call me a racist or what ever you want but the fact of this matter is: I am not alone in wanting to solve this problem for the American people.

 

http://immigrationcounters.com/

 

http://blog.heritage.org/2008/03/06/illegal-immigration-costs-demonstrated-again/

 

http://townhall.com/Columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/06/12/viral_video_on_immigration_costs

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm

 

http://www.heritage.org/research/Immigration/sr14.cfm

 

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

 

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTUyZjY3NzExYjIxODU0NmVmYWE4MTAxNTZlOWJkNDk=

 

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

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You can call me a racist or what ever you want but the fact of this matter is: I am not alone in wanting to solve this problem for the American people.

 

Vegan Joe, of course you are not in this alone. That would require you to be the only ignorant person in the states. And saying that would be by far the worst understatement ever.

As for your debate tactics I find them pathetic. You call Tucs' "statement" (really it was just FACTS) "stupid" and then when he gets pissed you tell him to be "civil". He called you a hillbilly, I think that is a mild word chosen. When I think of you, a lot more horrible names come to my mind.

I think I'm Your Mans point about history is extremely valid. You are in fact an illegal immigrant from the start to. Or as you would call it "an anchor babys babys babys baby" or something.

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I think that opinions on this subject seem to be coming from a very deep, personal, fundamental level, something which is very difficult / impossible to alter. I think people should question why they want to continue the debate, if your opinions have already been expressed - numerous times - and nobody is changing their mind on the issue, and if you have no intention of changing your mind either - it's just going to be frustrating for all involved. I think it would be more productive to accept that at this point in time, minds are not going to be changed on the subject. If people are concerned about others viewing this topic, and want to make sure all the facts / points of view are available; that job is already done, unless there is something new to add.

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Richard is right. This has been going on for too long. This will be my last post in this thread. I just want to echo what Tuc has been saying: the numbers Vegan Joe posted are not accurate and being able to cross country borders is a human right.

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I haven't followed the thread, but if it is going nowhere and upsetting people, it's probably time to stop posting it in and let it quietly lose steam. I think the diversity of opinions have been great in this political section. I haven't read this thread and don't know anything about it, it was just brought to my attention that it was possibly upsetting some people.

 

Hopefully nobody is really bothered, knowing it's just opinions that are being exchanged and we're never destined to agree all the time.

 

Hope everyone is cool.

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I posted many articles (sources) to support my position. If you really want to debate the issue it would nice if you too could post some articles, or sources to support you side of the debate, rather than just call me names and give your own personal opinions, without any thing to back up what you are saying. I'm not saying you are right or wrong. I would just like you to prove it to me without the personal BS.

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The thing is that there is nothing to debate about, you want us to write an article about the absence of problems that illegal immigration cause ? I find this whole thread surrealistic because in my mind nobody think about the costs related to illegal immigrants, because it's just a normal thing, it's part of life, and it's sad if you can't accept it, it's a rather small cost compared to many other things, and life is not only about money. All countries have legal or illegal immigrants or legal and illegal emigrants or natives who break the laws. You don't want to take seriously the opinions from other users here because they don't live in the US, well there has been some comments coming from Americans too, and people living in other countries also live with illegal immigrants so their opinions are relevant. There's already laws for illegal immigrants, so I don't know what else do you want. Why don't you talk about the drug traffic and the CIA, or suspicious transactions between corporations and governments, or crimes in general, instead of talking about some people in particular; they're not the problem nor at the source of the problem. Rich people steal money from the poor, and the rich need the poor in order to be rich. The laws will always profit more to some than to others, and if you want that everybody respect the laws, you need a country with a fair democracy, you need equal rights for everybody, and you can't obtain this by refusing certain rights to certain people, just because they're not in this country "legally" according to these "laws" (which are in fact at the source of the problem), because the reason they are here may be because they face the same problem in their own countries, like some unjust laws or unjust rights. If you open your country to them and offer them the same rights than to everybody else, they will feel at home and will be just like everybody else, they will obey the law, or not, just like caucasians and natives do.

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The thing is that there is nothing to debate about, you want us to write an article about the absence of problems that illegal immigration cause ? I find this whole thread surrealistic because in my mind nobody think about the costs related to illegal immigrants, because it's just a normal thing, it's part of life, and it's sad if you can't accept it, it's a rather small cost compared to many other things, and life is not only about money. All countries have legal or illegal immigrants or legal and illegal emigrants or natives who break the laws. You don't want to take seriously the opinions from other users here because they don't live in the US, well there has been some comments coming from Americans too, and people living in other countries also live with illegal immigrants so their opinions are relevant. There's already laws for illegal immigrants, so I don't know what else do you want. Why don't you talk about the drug traffic and the CIA, or suspicious transactions between corporations and governments, or crimes in general, instead of talking about some people in particular; they're not the problem nor at the source of the problem. Rich people steal money from the poor, and the rich need the poor in order to be rich. The laws will always profit more to some than to others, and if you want that everybody respect the laws, you need a country with a fair democracy, you need equal rights for everybody, and you can't obtain this by refusing certain rights to certain people, just because they're not in this country "legally" according to these "laws" (which are in fact at the source of the problem), because the reason they are here may be because they face the same problem in their own countries, like some unjust laws or unjust rights. If you open your country to them and offer them the same rights than to everybody else, they will feel at home and will be just like everybody else, they will obey the law, or not, just like caucasians and natives do.

I'm not asking you to write an article. All I asked for was some sources to back you position. Why are you avoiding this request? Why do you just keep talking philosophical idealist jabber, instead of debating any of the sources I quoted by posting sources of your own. What is so difficult about this request?

I think we have all heard this drum beaten to death, i.e The power, the oppressed, the slave, the conquerer, the laboror, the king, the revolutionary, the have, the havenot, on infinitum. How about just stick to debating the claims that my sources make by using some sources that you can link to, that prove or support you alligations that my sources are false.

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I'm not asking you to write an article. All I asked for was some sources to back you position. Why are you avoiding this request? Why do you just keep talking philosophical idealist jabber, instead of debating any of the sources I quoted by posting sources of your own. What is so difficult about this request?

I think we have all heard this drum beaten to death, i.e The power, the oppressed, the slave, the conquerer, the laboror, the king, the revolutionary, the have, the havenot, on infinitum. How about just stick to debating the claims that my sources make by using some sources that you can link to, that prove or support you alligations that my sources are false.

But you did say that you wanted us to post an article. What do you have against philosophy? That's how the values of a country are built, upon the moral of some good people, not on sources. Your sources have been demolished one by one, and posting new sources won't solve the problem of your country or other countries. Thoughts and reflexions will be more useful than saying numbers that change every minute or that change depending who says it. But maybe you don't care about solving the problem or make your country a better one, you just care about posting numbers that don't mean anything or don't serve to anything.

 

All I'm saying is this (interprete this as a lie, as the absolute truth, as poor Marxist philosophy or simply as the humble opinion of a citizen of Canada, who is very similar to the USA and who receive legal and illegal immigrants) :

 

you post numbers of crime or income allocations related to the illegal immigrants. First, most of the numbers are not exact, or include also the legal immigrants. But this is not so important.

What's important is this: why telling us about the % of those crimes who are perpetred by illegal immigrants ? what difference does it make who break the law ? Why you didn't post an article with the numbers of crime done by white men instead ? The problems are the crimes themselves, and the poverty, ect... not the illegal immigrants. If a caucasian commits a crime, it's as bad as when an illegal immigrant commits a crime. The caucasian becomes an illegal person by committing a crime. All crimes are illegal, no matter who's guilty. I guess you know this -- but maybe haven't thought about it.

But what sets us apart is this: you find that being an illegal immigrant is a crime in itself. I don't (and most people who replied here also don't see this as a crime). It is just a crime according to a stupid law. You have the right to disagree with a stupid law; if you agree with it, you become stupid too. It is not a true crime, because it doesn't create any problem. If an illegal immigrant commits a crime, his crime is a problem, just like when a caucasian commits a crime.

 

Among all the stupid things that we have to pay with our taxes, I prefer that it goes to help a new immigrant, legal or not, rather than to the production of some stupid national tv show that I won't even watch.

 

Are the illegal immigrants making you unhappy because you need to pay a few bucks of taxes per year, which anyway you would pay for another thing if it wasn't for this? Read your signature: you're the only one responsible for your hapiness or sadness, anger, etc.

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