For those who think the Iraq war is costing to much money.

[Vegan Joe]

Are the illegal immigrants making you unhappy because you need to pay a few bucks of taxes per year, which anyway you would pay for another thing if it wasn't for this? Read your signature: you're the only one responsible for your hapiness or sadness, anger, etc.

Apparently you cannot refute any of these references, The only apparent thing you can do is try to classify me as some kind of racist hater. I hold the view of most Americans. And if you don't care were your money goes then why spend your time beating up on people who do.

[Vegan Joe]

What do you have against philosophy?

I love philosophy, but not yours.

 

 

Why you didn't post an article with the numbers of crime done by white men instead ? The problems are the crimes themselves, and the poverty, ect... not the illegal immigrants. If a caucasian commits a crime, it's as bad as when an illegal immigrant commits a crime. The caucasian becomes an illegal person by committing a crime. All crimes are illegal, no matter who's guilty. I guess you know this -- but maybe haven't thought about it.

Many americans of color feel the same way I do, blacks, whites, even people of mexican heritage, not to mention immigrants who come here legal..

But you see your only agenda here is to try to make me out as a racist, because you cannot refute the fact that it is a great social and economic prblem for Americans.

 

 

You have the right to disagree with a stupid law; if you agree with it, you become stupid too. It is not a true crime, because it doesn't create any problem.

I just love your philosophy.

But I guess you just hate people who think and believe differently that you do.

[Vegan Joe]

Let's also try and stop birds migrating south for the winter.

I think duck hunters would be upset over that one.

[Vegan Joe]

 

Vegan Joe what the fuck are you talking about? He stated that spending tax money to help new immigrants was a good use of money. That would constitute caring about where your money went.

It's not his money, He's not even am American.

 

No one needs to refute any of your statistics about crime, "wasted" money or sexual assaults because even if they are legitimate most people here aren't such pussies that they feel the need to build walls around themselves to keep themselves "safe" from these things.

Right, he doesn't need to. He just need to hate some one.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Vegan Joe

[Vegan Joe]

Hey Vegan Joe, what about all of those unregulated market speculators on the NYMEX and predatory mortgage lenders who just decimated the stock portfolios and savings of anyone who has any? And that was just a small hand full of people compared to the millions of immigrants living in the United States. If you think Mexican immigrants are the problem with anyones money right now I'd suggest getting your head checked.

Why don't you start a thread on that topic and stick to the topic in this thread.

[robert]

This is for everyone, not just a person or two.....

 

I learned a long time ago, the best way to win an argument to is to avoid one.

 

That idea primarily just reflects situations and circumstances when people resist change and are not open to other ideas and it becomes very clear that is the case...at that point it becomes useless to try to convince the person of something they are not willing to accept. I've made a living from taking the high road, doing my own thing and not worrying about those who resist my agendas or ideas but supporting those who supported my agendas and ideas and achieving success and creating positive change as a result.

 

Time is precious for everyone. Use yours wisely.

[Vegan Joe]

Hey Joe, is there anyone you don't hate? You sound like a brainwashed Fox News / Hannity sheep. Lots of dumb rants whose sole intent is to piss people off, with nothing of any actual substance to back them up. Typical Neocon.

You just came here to hate. You add nothing of substance to the argument. You only came here to call me names. Your more liberal, I'm more conservative. So you think that this make you better person.

[Vegan Joe]

Yes, well, Canada has had an influx of about 7 million immigrants in the past 10 years if my memory serves me correctly. For a country of only 33 million people, that is a lot of people, and apparently of most concern to you: a lot of money.

 

And dude, get over yourself, no one is "hating" you... they're just pointing out you're either full of shit or xenophobic. It's like you want that whole hate thing to happen and it's not even working. Learn how to troll for fucks sake.

What country are you from?

[Vegan Joe]

Hey Vegan Joe, what about all of those unregulated market speculators on the NYMEX and predatory mortgage lenders who just decimated the stock portfolios and savings of anyone who has any? And that was just a small hand full of people compared to the millions of immigrants living in the United States. If you think Mexican immigrants are the problem with anyones money right now I'd suggest getting your head checked.

Why don't you start a thread on that topic and stick to the topic in this thread.

 

Joe it's obvious what's going on here: you are unable to refute any of my facts so you're diverting to philosophies about changing to a new thread.

I don't see any links to these supposed facts. back up what your saying, talk is cheep.

[sinisterkungfu]

Hey Joe, is there anyone you don't hate? You sound like a brainwashed Fox News / Hannity sheep. Lots of dumb rants whose sole intent is to piss people off, with nothing of any actual substance to back them up. Typical Neocon.

You just came here to hate. You add nothing of substance to the argument. You only came here to call me names. Your more liberal, I'm more conservative. So you think that this make you better person.

 

 

You're delusional.

[Vegan Joe]

Robert the problem is that if I wasn't online right now I'd be out on the streets of America sexually assaulting women with the immigrants and costing Vegan Joe precious tax dollars.

Don't bother responing to me.

I don't need to hear anything you have to say on the subject.

[sinisterkungfu]

Robert the problem is that if I wasn't online right now I'd be out on the streets of America sexually assaulting women with the immigrants and costing Vegan Joe precious tax dollars.

Don't bother responing to me.

I don't need to hear anything you have to say on the subject.

 

 

Ooooh, I get it. You're a troll. For a minute I thought you actually seriously believed the garbage you're posting.

[Vegan Joe]

I think there are a couple of people here who need to take a good hard look in the mirror. They might discover a bigot looking back at them.

[sinisterkungfu]

I think there are a couple of people here who need to take a good hard look in the mirror. They might discover a bigot looking back at them.

 

 

So you're not only a racist, and a homophobe, you're also a hypocrite? Fantastic.

[vivalasvegans]

[Vegan Joe]

So you're not only a racist, and a homophobe, you're also a hypocrite? Fantastic.

going through your posts you seem kind of upset about things like immigration, a the prospect of a black president, homosexual marriage, children learning about homosexual relationships, a strong anti-war sentiment among younger people.

Apparently some people have trouble reading.

1, I voted for Bush the last 2 elections as did most Americans. So now because I am not voting for a Democrate this make me a racist. No, what this does do is prove that, anyone who claims these actions to be racist, has serious personal issues.

2, Read what my views are on gays, and what I wish for them. Apparently you can only comprehend what you want. I don't condone their lifestlye, but I don't hate them for their choice, this is my right.

But there is no talking with you. You believe that everyone must think as you do and if they don't that you are somehow better than they are.

Guess I should have told you to clean your mirror first.

I'm done talking to people who just want ot call me names, use foul language, make false assumptions, and don't want to debate the facts of this subject.

[sinisterkungfu]

So you're not only a racist, and a homophobe, you're also a hypocrite? Fantastic.

going through your posts you seem kind of upset about things like immigration, a the prospect of a black president, homosexual marriage, children learning about homosexual relationships, a strong anti-war sentiment among younger people.

Apparently some people have trouble reading.

1, I voted for Bush the last 2 elections as did most Americans. So now because I am not voting for a Democrate this make me a racist. No, what this does do is prove that, anyone who claims these actions to be racist, has serious personal issues.

2, Read what my views are on gays, and what I wish for them. Apparently you can only comprehend what you want. I don't condone their lifestlye, but I don't hate them for their choice, this is my right.

But there is no talking with you. You believe that everyone must think as you do and if they don't that you are somehow better than they are.

Guess I should have told you to clean your mirror first.

I'm done talking to people who just want ot call me names, use foul language, make false assumptions, and don't want to debate the facts of this subject.

 

 

 

I never said you had to think like I do. However I am well within my rights, and as I see it, have a very good reason to think you are a bad person because of the extremist viewpoints which you have expressed.

And by the way you act, your ridiculous persecution complex (let me guess. you're an evangelical Christian, aren't you?) and your paranoia, there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that you are nothing more than a troll, and as such not worth the time it would take to completely wipe the floor with you in an actual debate.

[Vegan Joe]

Joe, if you're looking for something sweet head over to the Vegan Recipes section, I was thinking about posting one for a carrot cake I made this summer that came out fantastic. But right here (where you posted all this ignorant flamebait), the only dish being served is ice burns.

 

If you were upfront about the fact you're a racist, homophobic, chickenhawk who voted for Bush twice people might be more willing to hear you out. You're actually delusional about what your positions are.

 

United States presidential election, 2004

 

 

 

Nominee ...............George W............................. Bush John Kerry

Party.................... Republican ...........................Democratic

Home state ...........Texas ..................................Massachusetts

Running mate .........Dick Cheney .........................John Edwards

Electoral vote .........286 ....................................251

States carried .........31 .....................................19+DC

Popular vote ...........62,040,610 ..........................59,028,444

Percentage ............50.7% .................................48.3%

 

You're just full of hate.

You're a bigot dude.

It's people like you who give liberalism a bad name.

[Danny1611124300]

A heated discussion about immigration. I'll guess I'll make myself at home.

I'll skip the good ol' flamewar and write down some thoughts on the issue...

 

First of all I don't think any of the immigrans (legal or illegal) can be blamed for trying

to achieve a better life for them and their family. Nobody wants their children to live

in poverty. period.

I do believe that immigrants (especially "illegal") drive down wages.

The reason so many low paying jobs are being done by illegals is because the

employers don't even have to pay the minimum wage.

Would there be no immigrants they would have to pay for Americans to do the job.

This is not a knock against immigrants, I understand their often desperate situation and

their obligation to take any job to support their family.

This phenomenon is not new in American history. At the beginning of the last century

employers would hire the first load of desperate and dirt poor immigrants they could find.

This form of "old school globalization" has been replaced by a new model of global

enterprise. The workforce is not mobile anymore but capital is. So the contracts for

production are given to the lowest bidder in respect to wage, worker security and among others

environmental standards. It's a competition to the bottom with disastrous consequences.

International contracts like the NAFTA (North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement) have enabled

heavily subsidized (talk about wasting tax dollars) corporate agriculture industry products to crush local markets.

So why is there such a worldwide surge of refugees and immigrants who are desperate to take life threatening

and very harsh journeys into account to escape their homeland?

Why has Bush tried to get permissions for illegals to work in the construction industry despite heavy resistance

from the Republican base?

Immigrants are merely a scapegoat and useful tool to justify the constant lowering of wages while the government

spends billions of taxpayers money on subsidies for multinational corporations and on the defense budget

(the US contributes to 50% !!! of the worldwide defense budget), money that also goes to the same corporations and

is used to enforce their policy where economic measures fail.

 

Damn, I was gonna keep this short...

[Vegan Joe]

A heated discussion about immigration. I'll guess I'll make myself at home.

I'll skip the good ol' flamewar and write down some thoughts on the issue...

 

First of all I don't think any of the immigrans (legal or illegal) can be blamed for trying

to achieve a better life for them and their family. Nobody wants their children to live

in poverty. period.

I do believe that immigrants (especially "illegal") drive down wages.

The reason so many low paying jobs are being done by illegals is because the

employers don't even have to pay the minimum wage.

Would there be no immigrants they would have to pay for Americans to do the job.

This is not a knock against immigrants, I understand their often desperate situation and

their obligation to take any job to support their family.

This phenomenon is not new in American history. At the beginning of the last century

employers would hire the first load of desperate and dirt poor immigrants they could find.

This form of "old school globalization" has been replaced by a new model of global

enterprise. The workforce is not mobile anymore but capital is. So the contracts for

production are given to the lowest bidder in respect to wage, worker security and among others

environmental standards. It's a competition to the bottom with disastrous consequences.

International contracts like the NAFTA (North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement) have enabled

heavily subsidized (talk about wasting tax dollars) corporate agriculture industry products to crush local markets.

So why is there such a worldwide surge of refugees and immigrants who are desperate to take life threatening

and very harsh journeys into account to escape their homeland?

Why has Bush tried to get permissions for illegals to work in the construction industry despite heavy resistance

from the Republican base?

Immigrants are merely a scapegoat and useful tool to justify the constant lowering of wages while the government

spends billions of taxpayers money on subsidies for multinational corporations and on the defense budget

(the US contributes to 50% !!! of the worldwide defense budget), money that also goes to the same corporations and

is used to enforce their policy where economic measures fail.

 

Damn, I was gonna keep this short...

Nice work, but you only touched on one facet (wages) of the cost to the American wallet.

[Fallen_Horse]

Joe, when a dozen people on this board who you respect are voicing an opinion that is opposite of yours, then perhaps it's time to reassess your position? It's like the guy who thinks everyone around him is crazy, but really he is the only crazy one. (not calling you crazy, just providing a comparison..)

[Vegan Joe]

Joe, when a dozen people on this board who you respect are voicing an opinion that is opposite of yours, then perhaps it's time to reassess your position? It's like the guy who thinks everyone around him is crazy, but really he is the only crazy one. (not calling you crazy, just providing a comparison..)

Well at almost at 55 years of age, as compared to, probably a median age of say 28 on this board. It only makes sense that my views would be more conservative than the average poster here. Well I quess you got to look at the bright side:

I haven't been directly responsible for the death of any animals in over 2.5 years. Which is really why we are all here. No?

PS My Mother use to ask me that question too. "If all your friends jumped off the bridge, would you jump off the bridge too?"

[Danny1611124300]

Nice work, but you only touched on one facet (wages) of the cost to the American wallet.

 

I don't think you quite understood my point. As long as the government is spending billions on subsidies and

bullshit wars for policies that lead to the catastrophic conditions in the third world that make people flee

to the US I won't even think about whining about the "costs of immgrants".

[Vegan Joe]

Nice work, but you only touched on one facet (wages) of the cost to the American wallet.

 

I don't think you quite understood my point. As long as the government is spending billions on subsidies and

bullshit wars for policies that lead to the catastrophic conditions in the third world that make people flee

to the US I won't even think about whining about the "costs of immgrants".

Yes it would be nice if the US could spend zero $ on the worldwide defense budget. I had no idea we were raging war in Mexico and points south. Yes I guess it would be easy for you to say that it is the Untited States fault for all the catastrophic conditions in the third world. I also find it interesting that you find someones (Someone being more than one) concern for a social/economic crisis, to be mere whining.

[Vegan Joe]

Joe do you prefer spending days getting riled up with hate by Rush Limbaugh or by Sean Hannity?

I know, don't tell me. I'll guess.

You don't own a mirror.