For those who think the Iraq war is costing to much money.

[Vegan Joe]

That's the biggest cop out of them all:

If some one is against Illegal Immigration they are racist.

[Vegan Joe]

I find it amazing how people cannot find anything wrong with breaking the law of the land.

[Vegan Joe]

...

you missed the part about being illegal

[Vegan Joe]

Do they have a Liberals Anger Management Class?

[Vegan Joe]

I've got it. Ive got the solution for all those Liberal Idealists who want to help an Illegal alien. We will do away with the immagration laws. So all you Liberal Idealists need to pack your bags and start heading south to Mexico and beyond. You can give your job to some illegal (cause he won't be anymore) he can have your car, and house, Because you can't have it too. In a short time there will be such a strain on the natural resources of the US that you Liberal Idealists won't be able to live here too. There will be more jobs created but not enough for the Illegal Aliens(cause he won't be anymore) and you too. There is just not enough to go around for all the people who come here. So anyway I'm still working on the perticulars. So if you would like to help, well first off your going to have to leave because of dwindling reasources. but before you go, any good idea would be appreciated. Don't forget your sunscreen. BYE!

[VeganEssentials]

Somewhat on topic....

 

I think I can safely say that the vibes that I get from both major political parties have made me care less and less about either of the primary candidates this time around than I ever have before. I felt a special affinity for one of the major party candidates in the 4 elections I've voted in prior to this (well, except for that time I backed Harry Browne some years ago ), but this time, I can't stand either side any longer and find the bickering that I'm fed daily to be completely repulsive.

 

Screw it, I'm following my heart and will definitely voting independent like I'd planned in the beginning. I don't really want to see either party win, but it's going to happen regardless, and I'll feel like I'm not dirtying my soul by casting support for either one. I just can't find solace in either camp for the "viable candidates" to believe enough in either one of them. I'd rather be an outsider who feels good about who I vote for than follow party lines and be part of the whole ugly, angry scene that I come upon every time a political discussion comes about.

 

Not my vote will change anything here - in Wisconsin, you'd have to make thousands of Obama supporters disappear on election day to even consider McCain to be a viable option to take the state. The campaign cutbacks from the Repbulican side can already be seen in the fact that our neighbors at their party HQ is at less than half the staff of where it was a week ago. Looks like they're already calling our state a loss and putting their money elsewhere.

[veginator]

When Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back of the bus, she was breaking the law of the land. What exactly was wrong with what she did?

 

I find it amazing how people cannot find anything wrong with breaking the law of the land.

[Fallen_Horse]

...You can give your job to some illegal (cause he won't be anymore) he can have your car, and house, Because you can't have it too. In a short time there will be such a strain on the natural resources of the US that you Liberal Idealists won't be able to live here too. There will be more jobs created but not enough for the Illegal Aliens(cause he won't be anymore) and you too. There is just not enough to go around for all the people who come here.

The only people who should be afraid of losing their jobs are those who perform uneducated, low-level jobs in the first place. I am going to school for physics, and if someone wants to come into this country from somewhere else, work harder than I am, become better at physics than I am, and take my job, then frankly I DESERVE to have it taken from me...

[Richard]

Now lets just give it all away because someone comes along with what ever story he mave have. So you give him your home, dog, car, wife, and you go live on the street. Now that fair right.

Nobody has suggested that as far as I can see? Not sure where you get that from

 

Regarding the law, if the law is 100% right and ethical, then it would never be changed right? But the fact is that laws do change, for instance, slavery used to be legal, and now it isn't. But that doesn't mean that when it was legal it was right, and now that it's illegal it's wrong does it? It was always wrong, and the law was wrong at the time. There are many laws that I think are wrong and I don't mind breaking them, and there are many things which don't have a law that I avoid because they are wrong. I think you do have to have your own ethics, and the law should not prevent you from following those ethics. For instance, euthanasia is illegal in many countries, but I don't call it a crime and I'd support anyone who chose to do it even if it was illegal in their country.

[nails]

O.K. veganjoe lets round up all the undocumented "illeagal" aliens. Only lets start in the northeast where there is a whole lot of Irish here illegally.We'll start at the carpenters union hall in N.Y.C. Head over to long island and round up the greens keepers on the golf courses.Then up to Boston for the mother load. Why don't we ever hear or care about these lawbreakers?

[tuc]

I have an idea. Take the first post from VeganJoe and prove that his claims are bullshit. I'll start with the first one:

 

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

 

You're misstating the facts. That money isn't spent on illegal immigrants. It's spent on ALL immigrants, legal and illegal. For the illegals, it also includes money for their children born in the US who are American citizens.

[tuc]

OK I'll continue with number two:

 

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC,

and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

Wrong. Your source clearly sais that "food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion)"

 

Check your facts. And also note that the kids who need school lunches are going to work hard for their new home country and they'll pay their share back in taxes easily.

[Im Your Man]

I find it amazing how people cannot find anything wrong with breaking the law of the land.

This is true, I find it amazing that you forgot about the history of your country. Perhaps school years are too far away and I should remind you some stuff...

When Europeans arrived on America, the land of Amerindians, they broke their only laws: respect of life, altruism, do not steal, do not kill. The great explorers, like the Conquistadores more to the South, or those who colonized North America when they built New France, killed the nations who were there. They killed most of the native Amerindians and they submitted the rest to their rules, religions, beliefs, values, language, philosophy and way of life. They massacred all the buffalo so that the rest of the natives starve to death. All this while believing it was "legal", because to them the natives were just savages. But who were the real savages? Then they invented laws to make a "better" country, to protect themselves.

 

You call this "legal" ? You're a caucasian, descendant of Europeans colonizers, and you have an history of violence, blood, stealing, rape, brutality, murders and infamous barbarous acts.

 

And after this you call the others "Illegal Aliens". That's quite hypocritical.

[vivalasvegans]

Nicely said.

[Vegan Joe]

You call this "legal" ? You're a caucasian, descendant of Europeans colonizers, and you have an history of violence, blood, stealing, rape, brutality, murders and infamous barbarous acts.

We can always justify any argument by using some instance from the past. But we live in the here and know. And this problem faces us now with all it social, cultural, and economic, hard ships,

And as far as this statment above, Well that's one of the most racist statements I have ever heard. People of all cultures and all countries then and now have and will commit these atrocities. So to say that caucasians are somehow more cruel than another race. Well may be it's you who are to far from school, or maybe you cut a few of the wrong classes.

[Im Your Man]

where did I say caucasians are more cruel ? I mentioned the conquistadors who arrived in Chile, Cuba, etc... the French explorers who arrived in Canada, I could talk about China invading Tibet, etc...

[Vegan Joe]

where did I say caucasians are more cruel ? I mentioned the conquistadors who arrived in Chile, Cuba, etc... the French explorers who arrived in Canada, I could talk about China invading Tibet, etc...

I think you stuck your foot in it this time. With no wiggle room.

[Im Your Man]

I don't know what you're talking about

[Vegan Joe]

I don't know what you're talking about

Well of course not. You don't have to tell me.

[Vegan Joe]

OK I'll continue with number two:

 

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC,

and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

Wrong. Your source clearly sais that "food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion)"

 

Check your facts. And also note that the kids who need school lunches are going to work hard for their new home country and they'll pay their share back in taxes easily.

Say what?

[Vegan Joe]

O.K. veganjoe lets round up all the undocumented "illeagal" aliens. Only lets start in the northeast where there is a whole lot of Irish here illegally.We'll start at the carpenters union hall in N.Y.C. Head over to long island and round up the greens keepers on the golf courses.Then up to Boston for the mother load. Why don't we ever hear or care about these lawbreakers?

It doesn't make it right then, and it doesn't make it right now.

[Vegan Joe]

I have an idea. Take the first post from VeganJoe and prove that his claims are bullshit. I'll start with the first one:

 

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

 

You're misstating the facts. That money isn't spent on illegal immigrants. It's spent on ALL immigrants, legal and illegal. For the illegals, it also includes money for their children born in the US who are American citizens.

How could you make such a stupid statement. I more than happy to have my tax dollars spent on legal aliens, it's illegal aliens that is the problem. What part of the word Illegal is it that you don't understand? I didn't state those facts I just presented them here to a bunch of Liberal Idealists who haven't a grasp on reality, or their wallet.

[tuc]

I have an idea. Take the first post from VeganJoe and prove that his claims are bullshit. I'll start with the first one:

 

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

 

You're misstating the facts. That money isn't spent on illegal immigrants. It's spent on ALL immigrants, legal and illegal. For the illegals, it also includes money for their children born in the US who are American citizens.

How could you make such a stupid statement. I more than happy to have my tax dollars spent on legal aliens, it's illegal aliens that is the problem. What part of the word Illegal is it that you don't understand? I didn't state those facts I just presented them here to a bunch of Liberal Idealists who haven't a grasp on reality, or their wallet.

I correct you for presenting false facts and you wonder how anyone can make such a stupid statement? Oh wow.

 

Check your f**king source hillbilly. THAT MONEY ISN'T SPENT ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ONLY BUT ALL IMMIGRANTS. ALL. LEGAL AND ILLEGAL. Your "facts" are utter bullshit since most immigrants are legal in the U.S. which means that 11-22 billion USD is grossly overestimated since most of it goes to LEGAL immigrants.

[Im Your Man]

VeganJoe, what's the problem about illegal immigrants anyway? I just explained you're an illegal immigrant too, you're not Amerindian as far as I know. And I'm not an Algonquin, an Iroquoi or anything else, my ancestors' nation stealed this land too and massacred the native nations. But I'm not spitting on the people who just want to come live here today, to raise a family, and contribute to the economy and culture.

 

With your mentality, you should be happy and find yourself lucky that the laws for illegal immigration are so strict in your country, most illegal immigrants found are expelled from the country right away and those caught trespassing the frontier illegally can be shot.

 

You should come see how easier it is to emigrate in Quebec, for the good of those who want to. Immigrants, legal or not, don't bother me more than caucasians, I myself work sometimes for undeclared income, paid under the table, or however we call this in English, and I know many caucasians do it. Many white CEO's do what they gotta do to avoid paying taxes, and to receive allocations and grants from the government as if they needed any, some political leaders doing misappropriations of public funds to buy themselves a new yatch, or to spend billions of dollars just to bomb a country and kill their citizens, multinationals and other multibillionaires who do transfers of funds in bank accounts to the Fiji islands or no matter where. Some of these guys steal $200 million or more, EACH. These swindlers steal way more money from your pocket than some poor illegal Mexican immigrant earning 20$ per day washing dishes !

 

 

When the rich will stop to steal the money of the poor, the poors won't need to steal.

[Vegan Joe]

I correct you for presenting false facts and you wonder how anyone can make such a stupid statement? Oh wow.

 

Check your f**king source hillbilly. THAT MONEY ISN'T SPENT ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ONLY BUT ALL IMMIGRANTS. ALL. LEGAL AND ILLEGAL. Your "facts" are utter bullshit since most immigrants are legal in the U.S. which means that 11-22 billion USD is grossly overestimated since most of it goes to LEGAL immigrants.

I wish you could be civil without calling me names and cursing. For you to get roidal over things, well maybe you need not say anything, and leave the subject alone. You see the thing you fail to see Tuc, is that what ever the percentage, much of that money is spent on illegal immigrants. These people have and are breaking the laws of this land. even if you think the laws are unfair. I don't have a problem with my tax dollar going to legal immigrants and their families. These are some of the things I expect my tax dollar to do. But not to illegal immigrants who are breaking the laws of my country. My friend the other day was rear ended by a guy who was an illegal alien. Who didn't have a drivers licence (a privilage granted by the stae that I live in) nor did he have any car insurance. And so know I ask you who is going to pay for the rear end of his car? Well it will be you, me, and him, in the way of higher insurance premiums. my friend was less than happy about this as I am sure most people would be. If that fella was to be seriouly injured in that accident, we would have to pay for someone who does not belong in this country. Legal immigrant my friend. remember there is a way to come to this country without breaking our laws. This country cannot support every poor person in the world who want to come here for a better life. This is why we have the laws be they imperfect as thay are. The Staue of liberty doesn't say, sneak over our boarders and brake our laws.

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

Illegal immigrants cost us plenty. there is identity theft, illegal documentation,and crimes going on in connection with illegal immigrant, and other laws being broken. Not to mention Human Trafficing, which is well hidden among Illegal immigration.

If they are working off the books, then thay are not paying taxes. We are footing the bill for people who know they shouldn't be here, who have to continue to break our laws to stay here.

 

You want to make me out to be the bad guy.

Well if you don't think the laws are far and the present immigration system is bad or wrong, well then you should be spending your time trying to fix these problems that you perceive to be wrong.

one thing you should not do is go around calling people nnames who only ask for a lawfull society.

I don't want my tax dollars spent on people who knowingly broke the laws to come here and who continually break the law to stay here. Why you get so upset over someone who has a perfectly normal reaction like this is beyond reason.

 

You see, your only solution to fix things besides anarchy is to blame me.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Vegan Joe