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When your freedoms impinge on mine.


Vegan Joe
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Intresting. What do you think about gay peoples freedom to get married?

Doesn't your "freedom" impinge on theirs?

I've already mentioned my views:

1, I don't approve of gay behavior.

2, I am for a legal union of such, only don't call it marriage.

3, Give the partners benefits (health, death, etc.)

4, Don't teach my children (grandchildren, all my children are over 22) your life style in school.

5, Keep your private business to yourself.

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Intresting. What do you think about gay peoples freedom to get married?

Doesn't your "freedom" impinge on theirs?

I've already mentioned my views:

1, I don't approve of gay behavior.

2, I am for a legal union of such, only don't call it marriage.

3, Give the partners benefits (health, death, etc.)

4, Don't teach my children (grandchildren, all my children are over 22) your life style in school.

5, Keep your private business to yourself.

 

1. What is "gay behavior"? What do you mean when you sau that you don't approve, do you wish for it to be illegal according to law or just that you don't like it?

2. Isn't this were you impinge on their freedom?

3. Cool

4. I have no idea why it's so bad that kids find out about homosexuality? I learned about it when I was 6 years old, I don't think it affected me at all but if it did it was certainly in a good way.

5. What's this supposed to mean?

 

Even though your thoughts cleared up a few things it would be nice if you could answer my question.

If you want to ban gay marriage, doesn't that impinge on their freedom?

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I will never understand peoples 'nosiness' on sexuality, everyone always has an opinion on homosexual relationships, like 'I've nothing against gay people, just don't kiss in public etc' I mean why shouldn't they? And also why not teach children about homosexuality in school, I went to a catholic school, 2 of my close friends came out as gay when we finished there, they had such a hard time in school, if homosexuality was taught as a normal thing they may have had happier childhoods. Sorry if I don't make much sense I am in rantmode.

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VOTE YES ON 8

 

Just because I don't think like you, doesn't make you better than me.

This is a ballot measure that will be voted on.

I have my right to my opinion, just like you do.

If the courts, or something find it unconstitutional so be it.

Just don't condemn me for might right to choose.

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I will never understand peoples 'nosiness' on sexuality, everyone always has an opinion on homosexual relationships, like 'I've nothing against gay people, just don't kiss in public etc' I mean why shouldn't they? And also why not teach children about homosexuality in school, I went to a catholic school, 2 of my close friends came out as gay when we finished there, they had such a hard time in school, if homosexuality was taught as a normal thing they may have had happier childhoods. Sorry if I don't make much sense I am in rantmode.

 

You make total sense to me. I have friends who were in the same situation as yours.

 

@Vegan Joe.

You accuse homosexuals and the people against prop 8 to impinge on your freedom and therefore people should vote Yes. Please explain to me the how you can think that you are not taking away their freedom by banning them from getting married? It would be a lot easier to discuss if you could answer questions instead of rambling. You started this topic on board that is meant for discussion so let's discuss. No one is saying you are a worse human being for thinking the way you do. No one is saying that you don't have a right to an opinion. And no one is condeming you for right to choose.

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I'm a big 'ol liberal from MA, but I support Parker. Based solely on the statute, he clearly had a right to remove his child from the class. I don't see how they're claiming this isn't an issue related to human sexuality. I don't necessarily agree with the statute, but it's clear.

 

However, I don't have a problem with the other stuff. As long as the parent has the right to opt their child out of the video or the trip, I'm fine with it. Who doesn't love a lesbian wedding?

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I will never understand peoples 'nosiness' on sexuality, everyone always has an opinion on homosexual relationships, like 'I've nothing against gay people, just don't kiss in public etc' I mean why shouldn't they? And also why not teach children about homosexuality in school, I went to a catholic school, 2 of my close friends came out as gay when we finished there, they had such a hard time in school, if homosexuality was taught as a normal thing they may have had happier childhoods. Sorry if I don't make much sense I am in rantmode.

 

You make total sense to me. I have friends who were in the same situation as yours.

 

@Vegan Joe.

You accuse homosexuals and the people against prop 8 to impinge on your freedom and therefore people should vote Yes. Please explain to me the how you can think that you are not taking away their freedom by banning them from getting married? It would be a lot easier to discuss if you could answer questions instead of rambling. You started this topic on board that is meant for discussion so let's discuss. No one is saying you are a worse human being for thinking the way you do. No one is saying that you don't have a right to an opinion. And no one is condeming you for right to choose.

You write the law to have gay people to have a civil union And I'll vote for it But the way ti is now I don't wish to give up the right to have my kindergardner taught about sex..Dude until the court decided a couple of months ago. there was no such thing as gay marrage, or any kind of right for these people. So read were I stand on the issue.

Edited by Vegan Joe
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I will never understand peoples 'nosiness' on sexuality, everyone always has an opinion on homosexual relationships, like 'I've nothing against gay people, just don't kiss in public etc' I mean why shouldn't they? And also why not teach children about homosexuality in school, I went to a catholic school, 2 of my close friends came out as gay when we finished there, they had such a hard time in school, if homosexuality was taught as a normal thing they may have had happier childhoods. Sorry if I don't make much sense I am in rantmode.

 

You make total sense to me. I have friends who were in the same situation as yours.

 

@Vegan Joe.

You accuse homosexuals and the people against prop 8 to impinge on your freedom and therefore people should vote Yes. Please explain to me the how you can think that you are not taking away their freedom by banning them from getting married? It would be a lot easier to discuss if you could answer questions instead of rambling. You started this topic on board that is meant for discussion so let's discuss. No one is saying you are a worse human being for thinking the way you do. No one is saying that you don't have a right to an opinion. And no one is condeming you for right to choose.

Blow it out your ass, and see if you can hear a sound.

I've had enough of you talking down to me.

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First of all, I'm not a hater. Basically everyone I meet have different opinions than me and I hate far from everyone. I almost hate no one truthfully.

And if I find something wrong with everything you write that's because I don't agree. You seem to find something wrong with everything I write, that is how opinions work. What I don't seem to understand here is that you think it's wrong when gay peoples freedom impinge on your freedom but that it is okay when you turn the tables.

 

Blow it out your ass, and see if you can hear a sound.

I've had enough of you talking down to me.

 

and the rambling continues.

 

(For the record I agree that it shouldn't be mandatory for children to learn about any sexuality. Just as I don't think it should be mandatory to go to church or pray with/in school (from classes 1-3 we always went to church before christmas and summer holidays, I don't know if you guys do the same thing).)

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I don't love a lesbian wedding.

 

Well, sir, you are missing out. Out of curiousity, since you believe in civil unions but not marriage, is your opposition religious or secular? (If the answer to that is too private, I understand.)

 

Apparently the law in MA does not give the parents that right. or why would he be arrested?

 

We agree on this. I totally believe the statute gives him that right and that the state is interpreting it incorrectly. I don't even see where they're coming from. It's absurd. It doesn't even matter if I agree with the sentiment behind it or not; the statute is clearly worded.

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As one of "those people" (I fit into queer and transgender/transsexual definitions), it would be helpful if the entire cisgendered world wouldn't force it's sexual proclivities on me. It impinges on my freedom to be a person. Which is all that I want to be. A "civil union" is nothing more than a marriage with the same protections but a different name. Society calls it "civil union" because it cannot comprehend anything else. Is it not a rose that we call another name? A cisgendered person (that is, their gender is the same as their birth gender) and the heterosexual community have privileges and freedoms like no others, even more so when they are white.

 

Vegan Joe: I commend you on your convictions but do find that they are contradictory and come distinctly from a place of privilege. You seem afraid that your life is going to be impacted in some form or another because of someone else's choice but don't recognize how YOUR choice and YOUR privilege impacts others. I get to face, daily, fear and hatred at my mere existence. I run the risk of getting killed -- or WORSE. Because of my choices. So yes, pull your kids and protect yourself but please, don't violate my right to exist just because you don't agree.

 

I know you won't change your convictions and I appreciate that. I'm not expecting you to. But I would hope that you'd extend the courtesy of being respectful to others in general and their right to exist, to love and to find happiness -- that which you enjoy without a care in the world.

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isn't marriage about a union of love? anyone should be able to get married to anyone they love, people should have the freedom to choose isn't that why America is the "free" country? freedom of choice!

 

Freedom only counts if you fit into the description of those who have the privilege of creating that description.

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I don't really understand the concept of marriage, it is alien to me. But if people want to get married, I don't see what their sexuality has to do with it? Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, hermaphrodite, 3-way marriage whatever... it's all good. I imagine the only reason that I'd get married would be because of financial or legal benefit, I don't understand it beyond that. I also think sex education is valuable, and it's a good idea to teach kids about homosexuality and bisexuality and everything else in the world that they are able to make sense of at whatever age they're at.

 

EDIT: I like the kid in the video talking about being open-minded, interesting considering his age, that's great

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I love lesbians, and girls love gays ! Well they're just nice people. It doesn't mean I wish that all women become lesbians, I want some for me too

 

I don't really care about getting married myself, or about others getting married, may the be hetero, homo, or even if giraffes or horses could marry, why not. Why would I bother ?

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It's rare when opposing presidential candidates agree on an issue, but that's the case with Proposition 8. All four candidates have stated publicly that they do not support redefining marriage.

 

Fortyfour states have amendments or laws that say marriage is only between a man and a woman. Four states have no law on the matter and in three states, including California, activist judges ruled that homosexual marriage is legal.

 

There's much more to this issue than is apparent at first glance. Please take the time to look at both sides. I hope you'll vote to join with the majority of Americans by voting to restore traditional marriage in California. Yes on Prop 8.

Teresa Sanofsky

Agoura Hills

 

Frankly, I'm more than a little tired of being called hateful, homophobic and intolerant because I support a yes vote on Proposition 8. This proposition states that "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid in the state of California."

 

 

Similar wording was passed in 2000 by 61 percent of California's voters only to be wrongly overturned by four judges in a split decision in the court of appeals.

 

California law already states that "domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits" as married spouses. Prop 8 does not change that and gay and lesbian couples will have no rights taken away if it passes.

 

What is really at stake here is an attack on religious institutions and the traditional family and the state's ability to interfere with our freedom to teach our children the values we choose.

 

In Massachusetts, where gay marriage is already law, the negative fallout of this policy has already begun. Catholic Charities has stopped placing children for adoption because it was sued for not placing children with gay couples, which is against its core religious views.

 

If you don't think California will follow Massachusetts, then you have your head in the sand.

 

This battle is less about tolerance for gays and more about promoting an aggressive social agenda that will harm families and society in the long run.

 

I have gay family members. I have employed gays and I have friends that are gay. I resent being labeled as hateful when I am only expressing my views on a matter of great importance to my family and my community.

Spencer Mackay

Agoura Hills

 

Proposition 8 is not an anti-gay campaign and does not promote intolerance. If the proposition passes, same-sex couples will still have the same legal rights as traditional couples, as already required by law. The proposition does, however, deal with several broader issues.

 

Should elementary children really be required to learn about same-sex relationships? Since the California Education Code mandates that children be instructed about marriage, if Proposition 8 fails, children as young as kindergarten age will be taught that marriage is a relationship between any two adults.

 

This type of instruction already occurs in Massachusetts's public schools where same-sex marriage is legal, and parents there are not given the choice to opt out or even be notified prior to the instruction of their children.

 

Should churches be required to perform same-sex marriages when it is against their religious doctrine? In New Jersey, a Methodist church lost its tax-exempt status for refusing to host a same-sex marriage on church property.

 

Should religious adoption agencies be forced to place children in a home with gay parents? Catholic Charities in Massachusetts, which had offered adoption services there since 1903, closed down rather than face state mandated adoption to same-sex couples.

 

I will vote yes on Proposition 8 and encourage you to do the same.

Scott Williams

Agoura Hills

 

In 2008, four California Supreme Court judges imposed their beliefs over the democratic will over more than four million voters who passed Prop. 22 in 2000.

 

Voting a resounding yes on Prop. 8 would protect all our democratic rights and the belief that others, even judges, not be allowed to be imposed their will of the popular vote.

 

Forty-four states now have a state law or constitutional amendment, like your yes vote will create, to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman.

 

Prop. 8 will not affect the current rights of same-sex civil unions. And while I agree that traditional marriages will not be impaired by voting no, I emphatically assert that our families will be harmed.

 

Prop. 8 will affect many freedoms this nation is founded on. Voting no on Prop 8 will require individual teachers, schools and districts to teach that there is no difference between same-sex marriage and heterosexual marriage. It's the law, not just my opinion.

 

I have no greater freedom, duty and responsibility than to teach my children the values and morals I feel are proper. Millions have fought and died for this freedom. I will not surrender the freedom to raise and teach my children as I believe. I cannot. You cannot.

 

Join the rest of us and vote yes on Prop. 8.

Martin Onken

Agoura Hills

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So why shouldn't gay people have the same rights as heterosexuals?

 

Marriage is a legal institution. A church can still refuse to marry someone for what ever reason they want, so this isn't tramping on any ones right to be a hateful homophobe.

Gay Marriage is legal here in Canada and it hasn't hurt 'traditional' families or impinged on religious groups one bit.

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In my opinion (which may or may not be worth anything to people here ).....

 

Whether it's called marriage/civil union/whatever, the term is just a word. It's only as powerful as you let it be. If you're denied the same rights, then it's completely unfair in my eyes, but if a civil union offers the same benefits as a legal "marriage", then it is what it is, the same thing with a different term.

 

Unfortunately, religious ideology has been under great fire for quite a few years (I don't care what anyone believes, if that's what you want, so be it) and those that are religious do feel a need to grasp at terminology that makes them feel like they may have an advantage left.

 

Honestly, like I said, it's just a difference of wording if the same option is available to everyone regardless of sexual orientation and is lawfully respected across the board. If a civil unions are denied, then I think it's terribly unfair, but that's a whole different topic. I don't know why the word "marriage" is somehow considered to still be sacred, what with the highest divorce rates in history and how most Americans take their own marriages less seriously than they do their favorite television program (hence the sky-high divorce rate), but whatever. If the religious side wants to stake their claim on a mere word that they feel is somehow sacred despite the fact that any two morons can get drunk and married in Vegas while so intoxicated they can barely stand up, then let them have it. Those that think beyond the power of a mere terminology see it for what it is, the same thing as a civil union except that it allows some people to feel a bit more smug in their choice of wording. And, besides, if you've got a side that's wants the term so badly because somehow it still holds a deep meaning despite how devalued it has become over the past decades due to human nature, do you REALLY want to say that you're "married" anyway?

 

*Disclaimer* - I'm married, so let's all relax here and be nice to each other

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If you watch the videos you might understand why many of the people who would vote yes on 8 feel they will be losing there freedoms. And this is what the other side is crying about (losing their freedom0 yet who stands to lose the most freedom here. Civil unions and the right of, are already protected here. Yet freedoms will be lost here if no on 8 prevails. But of course the no voters are not concerned about the right of others, but only there own rights which aren't being threatened.

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If you watch the videos you might understand why many of the people who would vote yes on 8 feel they will be losing there freedoms. And this is what the other side is crying about (losing their freedom0 yet who stands to lose the most freedom here. Civil unions and the right of, are already protected here. Yet freedoms will be lost here if no on 8 prevails. But of course the no voters are not concerned about the right of others, but only there own rights which aren't being threatened.

Exactly what freedom are the "Yes on 8" people afraid they're losing?

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The people who oppose gay marriage now are the same type of people who would have opposed black people voting 60 years ago. Regardless of whatever ridiculous excuses you have to use to justify your stance, you are on the wrong side of the issue, and in 20 years you will be written into history as the bad guys.

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