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Former Vegan Friend


veggymeggy
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So is there not any kind of even moderately humane way to get milk products?

 

Like there's people around my 'hood with chickens for pets and I think they lay eggs and I can't imagine these people treating their chickens like crap.

 

Or am I missing something?

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Again, pushy by your definition and certainly by Jza's definition.

 

save it.

someone from north america pushing there agenda on others...how unheard of..

 

lol

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Again, pushy by your definition and certainly by Jza's definition.

 

save it.

someone from north america pushing there agenda on others...how unheard of..

 

lol

 

Granted, Nat is in Canada and hence the generalization to North America, but what is it you have against the U.S., etc? Seems I've seen quite commonly in your posts that you take jabs at all things U.S. Kind of curious.

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just 'cause you think it's right for you, doesn't make it right for her.

 

I have to agree with Jza here. Megan's friend has tried veganism, and has subsequently decided it wasn't right for her.

 

Sad as the suffering inflicted on animals as a result of Megan's friends decision is, she has her reasons, and it is her decision whether to pursue a vegan diet and lifestyle.

 

Her decision alone to make and not mine or anyone else who is reading this.

 

If Megan's friend feels any guilt, that is for her to deal with and live with on her conscience.

 

I think we must give her some credit in at least giving veganism a go. Well I do anyhow.

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I see people talking about being pushy to non vegans so when was the last time you got in your family's face about going vegan if they havn't? I dont mean a simple civil discussion, but you basically told them they were non vegan scum. Maybe you do push your parents around about veganism but, if you still do then it apparently has not worked. I like Jza dont push my beliefs on others, if people do that to me I resist unless I happen to agree with the beliefs. If I get a chance to talk about them then thats great and I make the most of my opportunities, but honestly I dont just walk up to people and start saying go vegan and get into fierce arguments. I dont think anyone who says you should be pushy with your beliefs is actually really pushy. Maybe you protest, wear shirts, etc. but the direct confrontation and threats used to force beliefs on others (just as the govt does) is something many vegans don't do.

Another reason not to be so pushy I found on this website a few years ago. We lead by example. Why should anyone listen to us? We prove our claims with our lives, and supposedly actions speak louder than words. Say all you want anyhow it probably won't hurt. Confrontation makes people defenseive though.

 

I wouldn't call myself pushy, I don't really even bring up veganism, and I certainly don't go around calling non-vegans scum. But I do believe it should be illegal to be cruel to animals; and my definition of cruelty involves killing, raping, stealing from and keeping in captivity. I can't make that happen, and I can't make anyone agree with me. Also, I don't believe that 'making people' do what I say will even work, it's not a good way to do things. But from a conceptual moral point of view, I do believe that basically (with a few exceptions) everyone who eats meat is 'wrong', which is what this argument was about. Jza then said we were forcing our beliefs on people, which isn't really what's happening.

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just 'cause you think it's right for you, doesn't make it right for her.

 

I have to agree with Jza here. Megan's friend has tried veganism, and has subsequently decided it wasn't right for her.

 

Sad as the suffering inflicted on animals as a result of Megan's friends decision is, she has her reasons, and it is her decision whether to pursue a vegan diet and lifestyle.

 

Her decision alone to make and not mine or anyone else who is reading this.

 

If Megan's friend feels any guilt, that is for her to deal with and live with on her conscience.

 

I think we must give her some credit in at least giving veganism a go. Well I do anyhow.

 

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO I knew Tarz was too good to be true.

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I have to agree with Jza here. Megan's friend has tried not murdering people, and has subsequently decided it wasn't right for her.

 

Sad as the suffering inflicted on people as a result of Megan's friends decision is, she has her reasons, and it is her decision whether to pursue a not-killing people lifestyle.

 

Her decision alone to make and not mine or anyone else who is reading this.

 

If Megan's friend feels any guilt, that is for her to deal with and live with on her conscience.

 

I think we must give her some credit in at least trying not to kill people. Well I do anyhow.

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I've been in dog rescue for a few years and I've seen a lot of animal cruelty so I have this question for you guys! PLEASE DON"T IGNORE THIS QUESTION!!! How many of you guys have pets? what do you feed your pets? if you had a pet what would you feed your forever friend?

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I don't have pets. My mum took in a cat which she keeps, and she feeds it fish. I keep trying to get her to feed it vegan, but she won't do it, it sucks. If I had a pet I'd try my hardest to feed it vegan food. If it can't survive on a vegan diet, I'd have to try something else, but it's not my intention to have a pet

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I want to get a parrot since they eat fruit and nuts, no prob living on a vegan diet for the bird. Also dogs can be vegan as far as I know infact when I go to my parents house my dog eats with me. She loves carrots, bananas, rice, and the Amy's burger things. She's not a big fan of cucumber but will munch on them sometimes. Doesn't like leafy things. My parents just feed her dog food which gets put in her bowl in the morning and she really wont touch it till evening.

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Ohh and Megan since this was originally about friends... I have 2 friends that were vegans for years but stopped. One went omni, another who just recently switched went back to vegetarian . I've got another friend that could stop being vegan, its too early to say. Anyhow once you hear people state their decision they probably will go with it when it makes things easier on them and whatever other lame reasons they come up with. You can say what you want to her, but if she hasn't really asked you what you think she should do she's probably not looking for input. Maybe ifyou are around more often she'll change her mind. This situation like most has many possible endings.

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Morality and ethics are an imaginary concept. There is no such thing as a universal morality, regardless of how much you want to believe it. What's immoral in your view, may not be in someone else's. For example, with certain tribes in New Guinea, it was not only morally acceptable, but expected to devour the brain of your deceased relatives, a practice that's looked upon with and revulsion by most of the rest of the world. Sad truth is, the najority of people in the world believe that animals were put here for food, examples of which are prominently displayed throughout the natural world. Is the lion immoral for eating an antelope? Anyone who would say yes to that is an idiot. For thousands of years, mankind has followed the example of the lion, and to this day, the majority of people do not see it as wrong. Double standard? maybe so. Hypocritical? without a doubt. You can argue with it all you want, but very few people are going to change their minds when you go about with pretty much the same mindset as the right-wing, ultra conservative religious fanatics. We look upon people like Pat Robertson as extremist nutcases. Your average person looks upon activists in the same way, and forcing your views on other people is just going to make that worse.

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I quoted you and changed what you said as if it were about humans rather than animals, to show how I see it as the same thing

 

Moral relativism has got to stop dudes. Yes, people won't agree on what is and isn't moral. However, that is not the same as what I am saying. If I say something wrong, then I think it's wrong for everyone. That doesn't mean they agree with me. But I still think they're wrong. Comparing yourself to a lion isn't really applicable, given that we're not lions, we don't live in the wild, and we have the capacity to think about our actions, and we have a choice in our diet. You can't blame a lion for killing, not really, but you can blame a human for doing so.

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There is no such thing as a universal morality, regardless of how much you want to believe it.

 

I'd say it's pretty universally accepted that it would be wrong to just walk around killing people in your town/village/tribe

 

If it were, then it would never happen. Yet it does, quite a bit. Morality is not the same for everyone. It may be the same for a majority of people (which could also vary according to cultural upbringing).

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If I say something wrong, then I think it's wrong for everyone. That doesn't mean they agree with me. But I still think they're wrong.

 

It also doesn't mean that they're wrong, it just means that you think they're wrong. For example, look at the divisiveness over the abortion issue. If there were some sort of universal moral code, don't you think there would be alot less contention about it?

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There is no such thing as a universal morality, regardless of how much you want to believe it.

 

I'd say it's pretty universally accepted that it would be wrong to just walk around killing people in your town/village/tribe

 

If it were, then it would never happen. Yet it does, quite a bit. Morality is not the same for everyone. It may be the same for a majority of people (which could also vary according to cultural upbringing).

 

In every culture it's considered wrong to just walk around killing people from your town, village, or tribe, etc for no reason. Just because a person is crazy and decides to become a serial killer doesn't mean the society approves

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If I say something wrong, then I think it's wrong for everyone. That doesn't mean they agree with me. But I still think they're wrong.

 

It also doesn't mean that they're wrong, it just means that you think they're wrong. For example, look at the divisiveness over the abortion issue. If there were some sort of universal moral code, don't you think there would be alot less contention about it?

 

Well when I said 'I think they're wrong' what I meant was 'I think they're wrong'. I dunno how you got confused, considering that's actually what I said in the first place. There ISN'T a universal code, which is what I've said. There is only my opinion. What I am disagreeing with is the idea that someone says 'I don't like killing people, but I think it's okay for other people to kill people'. To me, that doesn't make any sense. They either THINK it's wrong, or they THINK it's not wrong. And if they THINK it's wrong, then they THINK everyone is wrong who does it.

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I quoted you and changed what you said as if it were about humans rather than animals, to show how I see it as the same thing

 

Moral relativism has got to stop dudes. Yes, people won't agree on what is and isn't moral. However, that is not the same as what I am saying. If I say something wrong, then I think it's wrong for everyone. That doesn't mean they agree with me. But I still think they're wrong. Comparing yourself to a lion isn't really applicable, given that we're not lions, we don't live in the wild, and we have the capacity to think about our actions, and we have a choice in our diet. You can't blame a lion for killing, not really, but you can blame a human for doing so.

 

Ah, I must pay more attention in future.

 

I'm a lion - I'm a Leo you see. I also know a tiger too.

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If I say something wrong, then I think it's wrong for everyone. That doesn't mean they agree with me. But I still think they're wrong.

 

It also doesn't mean that they're wrong, it just means that you think they're wrong. For example, look at the divisiveness over the abortion issue. If there were some sort of universal moral code, don't you think there would be alot less contention about it?

 

Well when I said 'I think they're wrong' what I meant was 'I think they're wrong'. I dunno how you got confused, considering that's actually what I said in the first place. There ISN'T a universal code, which is what I've said. There is only my opinion. What I am disagreeing with is the idea that someone says 'I don't like killing people, but I think it's okay for other people to kill people'. To me, that doesn't make any sense. They either THINK it's wrong, or they THINK it's not wrong. And if they THINK it's wrong, then they THINK everyone is wrong who does it.

 

Oh, well yeah in that case, I agree.

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I agree with sinisterkf, anyway for all the Vegan dog/cat owners out there check this out!

 

http://www.fuzzyfaces.com/lfood2.html

 

http://www.justamere.com/newsletter/rawfeeding.asp

 

My point is that either way something has to die for something to live!

 

I personaly think ANY killing is wrong but it seems to happen a lot in this world! I don't believe that any of us can throw stones at anyone else just because most of us were not always vegan! I think it all boils down to taking care of yourself as an individual and making sure you live a compassionate and giving life! If EVERYBODY in the world did this then the world would be a better place! but that's just me rambling!

 

As far as plants/fruits/veggies are concerned I do believe all living things have feelings maybe not in the way we know it but feelings none the less.

 

http://www.gardenseeker.com/do_plants_have_feelings_.htm

 

http://www.inq7.net/lif/2003/jun/24/lif_22-1.htm

Edited by Bigbwii
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