Would you like the nasty political discussions to go away?

[Vegan Joe]

I had no idea that vegan and bigot were interchangeable.

I find it interesting how it is that I can voice my opinion,

which are opinions shared by more or less then half of all Americans,

and then be called every name in the book, by all these people who claim to be so loving, caring, compassionate, etc.

Guess you engage in alot of selfdeception.

Debate is one thing, but calling me names for my beliefs.

Totally amazed by all the childlike behavior.

Guess vegan and tolerant aren't interchangeable.

Want to check for the list of haters?

Just read above.

[HCPinGviini]

I had no idea that vegan and bigot were interchangeable.

I find it interesting how it is that I can voice my opinion,

which are opinions shared by more or less then half of all Americans,

and then be called every name in the book, by all these people who claim to be so loving, caring, compassionate, etc.

Guess you engage in alot of selfdeception.

Debate is one thing, but calling me names for my beliefs.

Totally amazed by all the childlike behavior.

Guess vegan and tolerant aren't interchangeable.

Want to check for the list of haters?

Just read above.

It's all in your head.

[beforewisdom]

Vegan Joe;

 

I think things you have said have made people feel awful about who they are or have offended other people who have had that experience and who are now seeing your words do it to others.

Rather than admitting that to themselves or even seeing it, then doing something constructive about it they have lashed "back" with various "*ist" terms that aside from their dictionary meanings have come to mean "bad person".

 

On your side of it you have become "offended that they are offended". You haven't slowed down to think that your comments are hurtful or offensive EVEN IF in your world (your experiences) your comments just look like matter of fact statements about the world. Instead you have felt offended and chose to post things with the intent to make other people feel offended like you do.

 

Guess what? It has worked very well.

 

However it is a bit like urinating on your own leg.

 

You don't feel less offended ( unless I am misreading things ), only more. Other people aren't trying to see things from your perspective. They are too angry too, just the way you are too angry to listen to anything they have to say.

 

You used to post to this board because you have an interest in following a vegan diet, an interest in working out and you have enjoyed communicating with the people here.

 

Lately, you haven't been talking about vegan diets, working out, and you aren't getting along better with the people you enjoy writing too.

 

In other words you are screwing yourself over in terms of all of the things you want from this board.

 

You aren't the first person on the web to do this. People even do it real life though they might not admit to it. You will not be the last person to do it. It doesn't make you less of a person. Just one who is temporarily acting against his self interest.

 

Nobody prefers hateful exchanges to friendly exchanges over subjects that interest him.

 

People on VBBF are good people. You are one of them. My suggestion to you is to post ( not apologize ) that you think the political threads have gone to far. Then take a week off of VBBF. Then come back and post only about vegan diets and working out for a while.

 

You will feel happier and have a better time.

[Vegan Joe]

...

When I post my opinion, and people who are bigoted (without even knowing it) and accuse me of the same. Well I'm sorry but it gloves off, no holds barred. I'm not going to take false accusations from people who have their head so far up there ass, then can't even smell their own shit.

As far as people being hurt, well I can't insulate people from the pains and sufferings of life. We all have our own baggage, and we all must move forward knowing, that no two people think alike, and that we are worthy, unique individuals, no matter what anyone else may think.

 

It's like what your mother would say to you, when your feeling got hurt. Remember? "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

I guess unlike most people here,

I am not a liberal in all my beliefs,

and I'm not a pacifist.

So If you want to push my buttons,

well don't be surprised,

if I push your buttons too.

[veginator]

I agree that the tone of some of the political discussions lately, at least on the part of some participants, has been nasty, and I would like that tone to go away. (But most of the "political" threads have not been specifically "election threads," and the vast majority of messages in them have not been "nasty" at all.)

 

However, there's an implicit premise here with which I disagree, and that is that somehow being vegan isn't an aspect of being "political." Unless someone is vegan exclusively for health and fitness reasons (and maybe even then), being vegan and advocating being vegan are political acts on behalf of animals' rights as well as protection of the natural environment. Veganism is a political stance on which we all (or almost all) happen to agree, and maybe a big part of why discussion about other political issues on this forum makes some people here uncomfortable is that there's a lot more difference of opinion about other issues.

 

There's an important common thread running through both animal rights issues and almost all other political issues. The bottom line is that, whether we're talking about the environment being more polluted than it should be, humans being exploited and mistreated, or animal rights, usually the fact that there's money to be made has a lot to do with what's going on. Humans, animals, and the raw materials of the earth are all treated as commodities from which profits can be made. To give a few examples:

1) Companies pay workers the lowest wages and the stingiest benefits they can get away with, because there's more money to be made that way.

2) The meat and dairy industries are big, profitable businesses, and in general make more money the worse they treat the animals.

3) Somebody somewhere doesn't make as much money if less energy is used or less pollution is created.

4) It would be very naive to believe, especially given what we now know about the illegitimacy of the reasons originally given for the US invasion of Iraq, that seizing control of Iraq's colossal oil resources and enabling US oil companies to make a profit from them wasn't the main motivation for the US invasion of Iraq all along.

 

I have a hard time understanding why someone, especially a vegan, would "hate politics," as one person who posted in this thread said, or be uninterested in politics. I would hope we'd all be interested in our own well-being as well as that of others (including animals), which is what "politics" is all about.

 

 

I realize it is election year and that the political discussions will likely become fewer after November 4th. I don't want the admins to censor anything.

 

Just curious.

 

Do you think the recent political threads an nasty and would you like to see them go away?

 

One thing I always liked about VBB was that is was a vegan forum that was actually had few political discussions. Other vegan forums turned me off in this regard. It seemed like everyone had a political opinion, everyone had to express it and everyone had to put somebody down for not agreeing with them.

[Vegan Joe]

...

Eloquent he is! http://www.shurepets.com/enews/images/clapping_hands.gif

[Vegan Joe]

the original poster doesn't even seem the least phase about whether the immigrants really do or don't put lard in their bean and rice burritos at their little taco stands.

 

?Senor Hay manteca en su frijoles?

I always ask, and it's apparent that the higher cost of lard, doesn't lend itself economically.

[beforewisdom]

I agree that the tone of some of the political discussions lately, at least on the part of some participants, has been nasty, and I would like that tone to go away.

 

That is pretty much what I wrote

 

 

 

I have a hard time understanding why someone, especially a vegan, would "hate politics," as one person who posted in this thread said, or be uninterested in politics.

 

 

My problem with the "political" discussions here is that racist and homophobic remarks have been made.

 

In general, I value VBBF for the reduced rate & lack of political discussions. I've found that on the internet, especially on vegan web boards that political discussions are often a means of ego aggrandizement for many posters who are looking to pump themselves up by putting other people down. Many people in this category also don't keep up with current events, & don't know all the facts about which they speak. Then there are the people who get offended or who get "offended that other people are offended" and who work out their anger by posting things with the intent of offending other people back.

 

No thanks.

[Vegan Joe]

My problem with the "political" discussions here is that racist and homophobic remarks have been made.

I have a problem with people who because someone has different beliefs and values then they, will automatically call people racist and homophobe, because it's the only way they can justify their self-rightousness.

[xjohanx]

I'm not the crazy person, everyone else is.

[Vegan Joe]

I'm not the crazy person, everyone else is.

Still name calling?

[beforewisdom]

No offense to either of you guys, but the last two posts read _childish_ to me and is a bit of what I am talking about. People seem to not be getting this point so let me write that I am not calling on the admins to step in. Since other people have no trouble voicing their opinion, I am voicing mine.

[xjohanx]

I'm not the crazy person, everyone else is.

Still name calling?

I you want to interpret that comment as if I was calling you a name that's your beeswax. Whatever I or anyone else writes you say that we are calling you names, hating you and that we are bigots. If I would start calling you names it would be far worse than "crazy".

No offense to either of you guys, but the last two posts read _childish_ to me and is a bit of what I am talking about. People seem to not be getting this point so let me write that I am not calling on the admins to step in. Since other people have no trouble voicing their opinion, I am voicing mine.

No offense to you but I think that reading my post as childish is far out. I was putting things in perspective by using a standard example, can't see anything wrong about it. I agree that the best thing to do would be to just not respond to Joe but I have a hard time accepting ignorance. Maybe that's what you mean by childish? That I haven't learned to accept the evil in society and that I still want to do something about it.

 

As for the political discussions: I don't care if they remain untill the election. If they continue we should probably deal with it.

[Vegan Joe]

No offense to either of you guys, but the last two posts read _childish_ to me and is a bit of what I am talking about. People seem to not be getting this point so let me write that I am not calling on the admins to step in. Since other people have no trouble voicing their opinion, I am voicing mine.

No offense taken, Thanks