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Being vegan and having a dog/cat


Gym hater
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Aaron, what you said make perfect sense when you said <>

Sadly, some people think cats and dogs are much more important than farm animals and have no compassion toward farm animals.

Yes, I don't chop up cows, pigs, and chickens because cats eat meat.

Cats cannot kill pigs, cows, chickens, etc, therefore these farm animals are not natural food for cats and dogs.

Knowing commercial pet food contain Rendering Plant products, our companion animals are forced to eat poorest quality of food.

No wonder so many cats and dogs suffer from all kinds of diseases and sicknesses.

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I know the reasons why people feed commercial pet food made of Rendering Plant products.

No1 reason is because convenience.

No2 reason is people don't get chance to see billions of factory farmed animals' LIFE LONG torture and reality of slaughterhouses.

I am sure if people witness actual slaughter of terrified trembling animals and see sea of blood and hear their scream, some of people who are keep feeding commercial pet food to their companion animals change their view of commercial pet food.

Knowing commercial pet foods contain Rendering Plant products, who want to feed euthanised cats and dogs, decayed road kills with millions of maggots, animal waste and blood, rotten meat from super markets, dead and decayed farm animals, used grease from restaurants, plastics, cellophanes, etc to cats and dogs?

Who want to feed poorest quality of pet food to our companion animals?

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fair enough - but you said that you have 7 cats and you feed them tuna was it?

 

by feeding them tuna you contribute directly to the extinction of that species. there are 95% less tuna today than there were in 1950, and far less are making it to sexual maturity. this is mostly driven by the desire for sushi, which used to be a delicacy but now apparently you can get as easily as fast food.

 

then you have all the other environmental destruction that takes place because of fishing. by-catch, destruction of food chains, destruction of reefs, sea floors, the list is endless.

 

there is no easy way to feed cats. not many of them take to a vegan deit. i think given the circumstances, if what you say is true, rendered meat, roadkill and euthanised pets is still preferable to wiping out eco-systems, causing extinction and the slow painful death a fish suffers.

 

IMO its best just not to have cats (for the record, i love cats, but just couldnt justify it).

 

jonathan

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jonathan, I fed tuna to my cats many times in the past but when I stop and thought about it, I stop buying tuna for my 7 cats.

I cannot stand to think about horrible long suffocation of tuna fish when they are lifted from ocean!

I know I still feed tiny sardines to my cats but time to suffocate is much shorter than large fish such as tuna and sharks.

I still feel like I am hypocrite.

Why do you have doubt about Rendering Plant products?

Have you ever read 'Mad Cowboy' written by Howard F. Lyman?

<

When this gruesome mix is ground and steam cooked, the lighter, fatty materials floating to the top gets refinded for use in such products as cosmetics, lubricants, soaps, candles, and waxes.

The heavier protein materials is dried and pulverized into a brown powder--about a quarter of which consists of fecal material. >>

He tells us that the powder is used as an additive to almost all PET FOOD AS WELL AS TO LIVE STOCK FEED.

 

You always tell me that things I am telling people are all well known to vegan/animal rights activists therefore not necessary for you to keep telling us same things over and over.

Do you mean you did not know about Rendering Plant operation and usage of products?

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IMO its best just not to have cats (for the record, i love cats, but just couldnt justify it).

Feeding the animals in your life is a real quandry (as mentioned before), but not having any in my life ? If no one adopted cats and dogs and other animals, what would happen to them ?

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fair enough - but you said that you have 7 cats and you feed them tuna was it?

 

 

Tuna is also not good for cats because of the high mineral content, which can cause them to have feline urological syndrome (urinary passage blocked by mineral deposits---which can be quickly fatal in male cats).

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Unfortunately, a certain brand of vegan cat food has also been said to contribute to life-threatening urinary tract blockage in some cats. This has been posted about repeatedly on some boards by people who have fed their cats vegan diets for years only to have them develop horrible complications or that they simply die from the blockage. It just goes to show, a food can be ethically sound on the vegan side, but there is still potential for it to be harmful to the animal you're feeding it to. The cats we adopted from the shelter in town are our surrogate children - I'm not willing to sacrifice their well-being because I want to make them eat the same way as I do. I live in the city and they likely would be hit by a car in the first few weeks they were allowed outside if I were to let them come and go as they please and eat what they would naturally in the outdoors. I have a few choices - feed them food that I know is coming from animals that have been likely been treated poorly, or feed them a diet that is more ethically sound but put their health in jeopardy. It is a lose/lose situation any way you look at it, but I've made my choice because as was stated here in an earlier post, you can't always be perfect all the time because 100% purity is completely unattainable.

 

When the man who wrote the book on turning your cats vegan retracts his beliefs due to evidence that it may not be the healthiest way for them to live, it really has to make you wonder whether or not it is the best choice for them. After all, if we were to feed our children food that we knew had a high risk for injuring them, would that not be considered abuse?

 

Like I said, there's no right or wrong here. You can make yourself feel good or you can offer your cat a healthier option - what you do is your own choice, and the ones who have to live with the decision are you and your cat.

 

Dogs, as has been said, are much easier to change to a vegan diet. If it were only that easy for cats to be vegan and be healthy...

 

 

http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6748 is a thread that can shed a bit of light on issues arisng from feeding cats a vegan diet. Some cats can thrive on it, others just aren't designed to go that way.

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i agree with what veganessentials, crispyQ (and some others) have said. but i haven't read the whole thread.

 

It is a lose/lose situation any way you look at it, but I've made my choice because as was stated here in an earlier post, you can't always be perfect all the time because 100% purity is completely unattainable.

exactly.

 

it's virtually impossible to live in this world without hurting animals/insects or the environment. if you beat yourself up every time you do something harmful, it's harmful for you. (imho)

 

and, what's harmful for you is harmful for animals, b/c if you're not happy and healthy, i don't think you can do as much good for animals.

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Unfortunately, a certain brand of vegan cat food has also been said to contribute to life-threatening urinary tract blockage in some cats.

 

I tried feeding one of my cats Vegecat (prepared according to their recipes) years ago. She was reluctant (to say the least!) about eating it, and developped a bad urinary problem. Fortunately, I got her back on track (this is much more dangerous in males, because the urinary tract is more narrow, so total blockage can occur quickly).

 

The last time I visited a vegan cat food site, they had warnings about feeding a completely vegan diet to cats, especially males, and recommended a "part vegan"diet).

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I have a few choices - feed them food that I know is coming from animals that have been likely been treated poorly, or feed them a diet that is more ethically sound but put their health in jeopardy. It is a lose/lose situation any way you look at it, but I've made my choice because as was stated here in an earlier post, you can't always be perfect all the time because 100% purity is completely unattainable.

 

So you stop trying to be 100% pure because it is unattainable? If you can't be 100% pure, where do you stop trying?

Sure a cat is supposed to eat meat, but you can also choose not to have a cat. Cats contribute to animal murder, and not only by what they eat. Cats also like to kill birds, mice, and insects just for fun. It is just how they are. And if you buy a cat you increase the population of cats, and therefore increase the amount of animals murdered just because you enjoy its companionship.

 

And you can also say that you saved them from a shelter or something like that. But by getting that cat out of a shelter you may just have taken the cat someone else was about to save, and that person may just go to a regular breeder because he couldn't find a cat in the shelter. This may not be likely to happen, but it could.

 

You are a vegan if you don't eat meat, dairy, eggs and other animal products. But most vegans also don't buy leather, and I think leather is comparable to having a cat or other predator pet. If you want leather shoes, a cow(or other animal) has to be killed. If you want a cat it has to be fed and it needs to kill for pleasure, and a cow(or other animal) has to be killed. So are you vegan if you have a cat?

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I have same dilemma. I feel bad every time I feed my cat but I can not neglect his dietary need because I am his guardian. Also, he had trouble urinating a few days, a year ago and since my veterinarian has prescribed Science Diet C/D and there have been no problems. I imagine Science Diet likely tests but again, do I feed him another and let him get a urinary problem?

 

I know I am being selfish for choosing one animal, my cat, over others - chickens for the food, any animal tested but I can let myself not do it, as I feel I have a commitment to him.

 

While I like cats very much, I will likely not have another one because this is hard.

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But by getting that cat out of a shelter you may just have taken the cat someone else was about to save, and that person may just go to a regular breeder because he couldn't find a cat in the shelter. This may not be likely to happen, but it could.

have you ever been to a shelter? that's about as unlikely as can be.

 

So are you vegan if you have a cat?

are you vegan if you drive or ride in a car? are you vegan if you use electricity? are you vegan if you buy or use plastic? are you vegan if you eat farm-raised plants? etc.

 

all of these things kill animals.

 

it's my opinion that holding other veg*ns to these standards turns people off from veg*nism.

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The only perfect vegan is a dead vegan.

 

 

it's my opinion that holding other veg*ns to these standards turns people off from veg*nism.

 

A critical point, IMO, Neil! I think many people assume vegans are self-righteous. Attitudes like the above only confirms it for them. Once that happens, it's almost impossible to get them to open their minds to the message.

 

 

 

While I like cats very much, I will likely not have another one because this is hard.

 

I agree, 9nines. I too, will probably not have cats again. Bunnies are very nice & veggie, too!

 

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So you stop trying to be 100% pure because it is unattainable?

 

I never said that. I simply said that 100% purity is unattainable, and I do not browbeat myself because I cannot be perfect. I don't find pleasure in trying to convince myself that I'm greatly faulted - I already know that I am, just like every other vegan because we simply cannot be as perfect as we'd like.

 

If you can't be 100% pure, where do you stop trying?

That's an entirely different argument. Such a thing is up to each and every vegan themselves. Some will strive for perfection (which cannot be reached), others will put in less effort. What one does vs. the other does not make one better and one worse - it simply makes them different and when vegans start getting into the "you're not vegan enough!" argument it only hurts the credibility of the movement.

 

Sure a cat is supposed to eat meat, but you can also choose not to have a cat.?

 

If that's where your thoughts lie, that is one's choice.

 

Cats contribute to animal murder, and not only by what they eat. Cats also like to kill birds, mice, and insects just for fun. It is just how they are. And if you buy a cat you increase the population of cats, and therefore increase the amount of animals murdered just because you enjoy its companionship.

 

So it is better to kill the cat that is from the shelter because it is its nature to kill for both food and entertainment? With that, you condone the killing of one creature to save another, which isn't exactly one that flies with me (and I'm sure many others). Taking an unwanted cat from a shelter is not the same as "buying" a cat that was raised as a commodity. There's a big difference between my taking in a cat that was found living under a porch than one that was raised by a breeder.

 

And you can also say that you saved them from a shelter or something like that. But by getting that cat out of a shelter you may just have taken the cat someone else was about to save, and that person may just go to a regular breeder because he couldn't find a cat in the shelter. This may not be likely to happen, but it could.

 

Anything can happen. The person may decide instead to adopt from a different shelter, or, because they didn't find a cat they like, they may not get a cat at all. Or, they may be despondent and hurl themselves off a bridge into the nearest river - since we're talking hypothetical situations that are longshots here, we can discuss just about anything

 

But most vegans also don't buy leather, and I think leather is comparable to having a cat or other predator pet.

 

But, this is your personal opinion and not the voice of the movement overall. Veganism has many interpretations, but there are few core tenets that it all boils down to that can be agreed upon universally. The issue of animal guardianship is still hotly debated, but just because you personally do not agree with it does not mean that it is the concensus of the movement. I don't believe in promoting ideas that are my own variants on the core of veganis without a caveat to let others know that it is my *own* thought rather than what is universally agreed upon. The slippery slope begins when we display our own interpretations as those of the entire movement.

 

If you want leather shoes, a cow(or other animal) has to be killed. If you want a cat it has to be fed and it needs to kill for pleasure, and a cow(or other animal) has to be killed. So are you vegan if you have a cat?

 

You are vegan, but the cat is not. Like Neil has stated, when you drive, you're using products that animals had to die for. When you're at your computer right now, something had to die for this. When you walk on the grass, insects die. Does this mean we must beat ourselves up for every action we take? We should simply do the most we can and accept that it cannot be perfect. Thinking along these lines is the reason I'm still vegan and didn't burn myself out from having a defeatist/perfectionist attitude. Whether or not one wishes to strive for purity is their own choice, but I can live with knowing that I cannot be pefect, and I can live with the fact that my cats still eat meat.

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But by getting that cat out of a shelter you may just have taken the cat someone else was about to save, and that person may just go to a regular breeder because he couldn't find a cat in the shelter. This may not be likely to happen, but it could.

have you ever been to a shelter? that's about as unlikely as can be.

It's unlikely, but possible. And yes, I have been to a shelter once.

 

are you vegan if you drive or ride in a car? are you vegan if you use electricity? are you vegan if you buy or use plastic? are you vegan if you eat farm-raised plants? etc.

Those things probably also kill animals. But can they be as easily prevented as just not having a cat? And do they require holding animals in captivity under bad conditions? And are they as easily replacable as keeping a rabbit as a pet instead of a cat?

 

it's my opinion that holding other veg*ns to these standards turns people off from veg*nism.

And I think people telling everyone how bad it is to eat meat, while still wearing leather or buying meat for their pets, are bad advertisement for veg*nism. But that is easy to say, and I don't know what I would do if I had a cat, so I just won't get a cat(which seems to me like the best thing to do).

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So it is better to kill the cat that is from the shelter because it is its nature to kill for both food and entertainment?

 

Yes. Not that that is a good sollution, but better than killing cows and letting your cat kill helpless animals(for example: my 4 baby guinea pigs that have been killed for the enjoyment(not even food) of 1 cat). As you said you can't be perfect, but this comes closer to perfection.

 

With that, you condone the killing of one creature to save another, which isn't exactly one that flies with me (and I'm sure many others).

 

Not another, but others.

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So it is better to kill the cat that is from the shelter because it is its nature to kill for both food and entertainment?

 

Yes. Not that that is a good sollution' date=' but better than killing cows and letting your cat kill helpless animals(for example: my 4 baby guinea pigs that have been killed for the enjoyment(not even food) of 1 cat). As you said you can't be perfect, but this comes closer to perfection.[/quote']

 

But, barring the fact that the cat is confined, he would naturally kill in the outdoors for survival and possibly entertainment (providing that cats were all left to live naturally on their own). This is fact, but as they cannot all do so and some will live entirely indoors, we should force them to do as we please because it alleviates our own guilty conscience even if it is not the best option for the animal? Again, this to me can be construed as abusive if you take a road that is potentially harmful and force it on something that cannot make its own decisions purely because it is what you THINK is best, not because it is shown to be the best.

 

So now you're saying that one animal is lesser than another. I'm sorry if a cat killed your guniea pigs, but this brings up more questions - was the cat yours, or someone else's? Were the guinea pigs and the cat ever supposed to be near each other, or did the cat get in to attack them without you knowing it would ever be there? Did you keep the guinea pigs safely away at all times for fear of predators such as the cat (after all, when you take an animal into your care, you are its guardian, not just an "owner" which so many people think!) I have the feeling you're a bit biased against cats in particular due to your experience, which is just how people justify saying "Well, I eat meat because I don't like cows." Again, we head down a slippery slope when we say that one animal is more valid than another and decide which one can live and which one can die. This reminds me of a kid I knew when I was growing up - he shot and killed a cat because it was eating the birds that would come to his parent's feeder. Now, the cat was doing as it would have done naturally for survival, but because the guy preferred one animal over the other he enforced his own will upon the situation and caused a balance that was dictated on his beliefs, not what is natural. I may be wrong, but it sounds parallel in your preferentalism for one species over another. But, this takes things in a whole new direction....

 

With that, you condone the killing of one creature to save another, which isn't exactly one that flies with me (and I'm sure many others).

 

Not another, but others.

 

And, as is common knowledge, a cat will kill other creatures to survive. So do thousands of other species, but why is it okay to say that cats are different? Why is this wrong if it is natural - because it is a cat and not a different carnivorous creature? What if someone adopted a snake that would otherwise be euthanized - there's no vegan snake food I know of, but does that mean that the adopter would have to feed the snake a vegan diet even though it is unnatural (but would make the adopter feel better about his/her self?) We have to stop singling out cats here and put it in perspective as for all creatures - first we complain how we've screwed up their natural habitats and cycles, then we contemplate messing with their natural diet as well to remove them from their true nature as much as possible. Where do we draw the line? What do we do to make things better? To me, the answer is easy - work to correct the current problem to the greatest extent (neuter/spay), and work toward a reversion to a more natural state. At least, that's how I see it.

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One more quick story. We had a customer years ago who basically forced her cats to go vegan, even after repeated disasters. She loved cats (at least, we believe her heart was in the right place...) but she admitted that she had 3 cats die in 5 years (total time, not from start of diet to death date) after forcing them to eat vegan, all from diet-related complications. How is this any better than just outright killing the cats - if you know that what you're doing is harmful, why would you continue to do it? Does this not go completely against vegan philosphy, to knowingly and willingly do harm to another living creature even thought you could choose to do something better for it? When does someone realize that they're breaking the basic rules of being vegan just because they want to be perfect and force their will on others who may not be meant for it?

 

Like I keep saying, there is no "perfect" answer. Some animals can go vegan, some cannot, but to believe that we can force everything to meet our ideals without harming them is downright irresponsible. And, yes, the alternative may not be the best for purchasing meat products for them, there's no question. But, when we put into perspective that they would eat other animals naturally it becomes less difficult to accept than when we kid ourselves and imagine that cats would live vegan by their own choices and remain healthy.

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So it is better to kill the cat that is from the shelter because it is its nature to kill for both food and entertainment?

 

Yes. Not that that is a good sollution' date=' but better than killing cows and letting your cat kill helpless animals(for example: my 4 baby guinea pigs that have been killed for the enjoyment(not even food) of 1 cat). As you said you can't be perfect, but this comes closer to perfection.[/quote']

 

But, barring the fact that the cat is confined, he would naturally kill in the outdoors for survival and possibly entertainment (providing that cats were all left to live naturally on their own). This is fact, but as they cannot all do so and some will live entirely indoors, we should force them to do as we please because it alleviates our own guilty conscience even if it is not the best option for the animal? Again, this to me can be construed as abusive if you take a road that is potentially harmful and force it on something that cannot make its own decisions purely because it is what you THINK is best, not because it is shown to be the best.

 

So now you're saying that one animal is lesser than another. I'm sorry if a cat killed your guniea pigs, but this brings up more questions - was the cat yours, or someone else's? Were the guinea pigs and the cat ever supposed to be near each other, or did the cat get in to attack them without you knowing it would ever be there? Did you keep the guinea pigs safely away at all times for fear of predators such as the cat (after all, when you take an animal into your care, you are its guardian, not just an "owner" which so many people think!) I have the feeling you're a bit biased against cats in particular due to your experience, which is just how people justify saying "Well, I eat meat because I don't like cows." Again, we head down a slippery slope when we say that one animal is more valid than another and decide which one can live and which one can die. This reminds me of a kid I knew when I was growing up - he shot and killed a cat because it was eating the birds that would come to his parent's feeder. Now, the cat was doing as it would have done naturally for survival, but because the guy preferred one animal over the other he enforced his own will upon the situation and caused a balance that was dictated on his beliefs, not what is natural. I may be wrong, but it sounds parallel in your preferentalism for one species over another. But, this takes things in a whole new direction....

 

With that, you condone the killing of one creature to save another, which isn't exactly one that flies with me (and I'm sure many others).

 

Not another, but others.

 

And, as is common knowledge, a cat will kill other creatures to survive. So do thousands of other species, but why is it okay to say that cats are different? Why is this wrong if it is natural - because it is a cat and not a different carnivorous creature? What if someone adopted a snake that would otherwise be euthanized - there's no vegan snake food I know of, but does that mean that the adopter would have to feed the snake a vegan diet even though it is unnatural (but would make the adopter feel better about his/her self?) We have to stop singling out cats here and put it in perspective as for all creatures - first we complain how we've screwed up their natural habitats and cycles, then we contemplate messing with their natural diet as well to remove them from their true nature as much as possible. Where do we draw the line? What do we do to make things better? To me, the answer is easy - work to correct the current problem to the greatest extent (neuter/spay), and work toward a reversion to a more natural state. At least, that's how I see it.

 

First of, cats are just an example, it goes for other pets aswell.

 

Secondly, I am not saying that one animal is lesser than another. In fact I think all animals are the same, that is why less unjustified to let one animal die than to kill multiple animals to keep one alive.

 

Third, I did not OWN the guinea pigs, I just fed them and let them walk about in the garden when the sun is shining. And the cat was not supposed to be there because I told its owner I had babies and the owner would keep the cat inside. Unfortunately the cat escaped and killed(not ate) the babies. When I heard the screaming I wen't to check and saw the cat (which was supposed to be inside) running of with one of the screaming babies in it's mouth. The screaming of that little baby guinea pig got to me in the way "meat you meat" did.

 

Forth, I did not understand a lot of difficult words you used.

 

Fifth, I think eutanizing a snake is better than feeding it a mouse every week. But the best thing would be to not keep a snake in captivity.

 

Sixth, I think all animals belong in the wild. So with the current situation there is a problem. And as far as I know there is no easy sollution to this, but getting a cat or other predator pet is certainly not helping it. Veggie pets are also not helping, but atleast they don't require the death of others. And the pets I have where given to me by someone who didn't want them anymore, and I don't really keep them in captivity since they are free to go as they please.

 

Seventh, I am also befriended with some cats(not mine).

 

Eight, what does barring, alleviate, and contemplate mean?

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Eight, what does barring, alleviate, and contemplate mean?

 

Contemplate = "to think about"

Alleviate= "to lessen"

Barring (as in "barring an accident, X will live until the age of 80") = unless the thing mentioned after "barring" comes about.

 

I have cats. I am also probably the most 'strict' vegans I know, aside from that. I do feel conflicted many times. But I love cats in a way that they are part of me and my "family." It's hard for me to say I will never have a cat after my current batch is gone. My relationship with cats throughout my life has actually lead me to become, first, a vegetarian, then a vegan, and to be an animal rights advocate (though I personally don't like the term "animal rights," I prefer "compassion and empathy towards other living creatures" but that doesn't roll as trippingly off the tongue!)

 

I don't hate any animals, but cats are the only ones I can imagine living with. Dogs can be vegans with no problems, but I've never connected with dogs. I love the way cats purr, the way the back of their necks smell when you take a big warm wiff, their mannerisms, their beauty. I 'understand' them in a way I don't understand other animals.

 

So, what do we cat-loving vegans do?

 

Certainly not force feed them vegan foods and kill them off (Veganessentials, that is such a sad story!)

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Hopefully this time my reply will work -

 

GymHater, the true problem here lies in that, even though the cat will eat more creatures than, say, an herbivorous creature, it is what nature has intended and I believe it is unfair to discriminate against creatures simply based on their natural diets. We can't put everything into terms of quantity because then we get into a whole new debate. For exampe, it could be said that a cat may only eat a few cattle total over a lifetime when it comes to meat used in their food, but a cow may accidentally step on dozens of fieldmice during it's lifetime. This isn't fact, but I'm merely making an example that if we look long enough, we can find a way to make quantity work either for or against us, and this does not really fare well logically. Death is inevitable, and yes, cats do eat mice, birds and other creatures, but this is not an unnatural thing and therefore we should not hold it against them for it. If so, we may as well decide that it is best to exterminate lions, tigers, and other such animals because they also kill many, many animals during their lifetime. Some creatures are genetically made to live by eating others, and this should not be grounds to consider one more important than another because it is beyond their control.

 

I agree, I wish all animals lived in the wild in their natural habitats, but since we've managed to screw that up considerably it is our duty to care for those which cannot exist in the situation we've put them in. Trying to force-feed them our own ethics is not the answer, and if someone cannot accept what is best for the animal then it is best that they do not take care of it. I wish things were different, but unfortunately they aren't and we must make the best of what there is, even if it means taking care of creatures that cannot exist on our own personal standards of how we choose to eat.

 

My original reply was much more in-depth, but I'm afraid of losing my posts again!

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Death is inevitable, and yes, cats do eat mice, birds and other creatures, but this is not an unnatural thing and therefore we should not hold it against them for it. If so, we may as well decide that it is best to exterminate lions, tigers, and other such animals because they also kill many, many animals during their lifetime. Some creatures are genetically made to live by eating others, and this should not be grounds to consider one more important than another because it is beyond their control.

 

I agree on the part that cats are natural meat eaters. But vegans are people who are against that humans kill and harm animals. And cat food consists of animals that are killed by humans. So the choice to get a cat is pretty unvegan. Or that description of a vegan is false. But of course there are exceptions, and it would be unfair if I judged those, so I shall not judge those anymore.

 

I agree, I wish all animals lived in the wild in their natural habitats, but since we've managed to screw that up considerably it is our duty to care for those which cannot exist in the situation we've put them in. Trying to force-feed them our own ethics is not the answer, and if someone cannot accept what is best for the animal then it is best that they do not take care of it. I wish things were different, but unfortunately they aren't and we must make the best of what there is, even if it means taking care of creatures that cannot exist on our own personal standards of how we choose to eat.

 

I still don't think choosing to take care of a cat is making the best of what there is, because it stimulates the cat market and the meat market. But there is indeed not much to do to solve the problem, you can only choose not to be a part of the problem by choosing not to have a cat. And of course there are also exceptions here, and I shall not judge them.

 

My original reply was much more in-depth, but I'm afraid of losing my posts again!

 

Try copying it after you are done, so you can paste it in Word if the post doesn't go through. Or type it in Word first, and paste it later.

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So are you vegan if you have a cat?
are you vegan if you drive or ride in a car? are you vegan if you use electricity? are you vegan if you buy or use plastic? are you vegan if you eat farm-raised plants? etc.

Those things probably also kill animals. But can they be as easily prevented as just not having a cat? And do they require holding animals in captivity under bad conditions? And are they as easily replacable as keeping a rabbit as a pet instead of a cat?

if you have to avoid every un-necessary thing that causes harm to animals so that you can call yourself vegan, where would you draw the line? i would think you would have to avoid every un-necessary action that causes harm to the environment as well as animals. good luck. if you're curious whether animal ingredients are used in some plastics, click here.

 

but, i do think you're right on this: keeping a cat alive (instead of a rabbit or whatever) does contribute to the death of more animals that were killed by humans, whether they would have been killed for another reason or not. i'm not happy about this, but it was my choice (after much thought) to save two kittens that were likely going to be killed (in a shelter).

 

it's my opinion that holding other veg*ns to these standards turns people off from veg*nism.

And I think people telling everyone how bad it is to eat meat, while still wearing leather or buying meat for their pets, are bad advertisement for veg*nism. But that is easy to say, and I don't know what I would do if I had a cat, so I just won't get a cat(which seems to me like the best thing to do).

to each their own. which is what most people appreciate when you're encouraging them to eat fewer animals and use fewer animal products.

 

if i ever told one of the countless people i've encountered in the last 12 years that being vegan means doing a, b and c in your diet and x, y and z in lifestyle and nothing less, then i doubt many would've had a positive impression. but, many have.

 

i know that for me, i became vegan before i gave up leather, before i donated to AR groups, before i became an AR activist.

 

i know people who don't think i should call myself vegan, b/c i wear a second-hand wool suit and have even bought a pair of leather shoes in recent years (gasp! even though there's been debate on whether real leather or fake leather is worse for animals). to them i say, to each their own. call me what you want. i'm fine with the "strict-vegetarian-who-sometimes-reduces-harm-to-animals-even-when he's-not-eating" label.

 

i think we agree on some things, but on others we'll just have to agree to disagree, please.

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