Gun sales surge after Obama's election (link)

[Im Your Man]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/11/obama.gun.sales/index.html?iref=mpstoryview#cnnSTCText

 

WASHINGTON (CNN) --

"Bernie Conatser has never seen business this good.

The owner of a gun shop in the Washington suburb of Manassas, Virginia, Conatser said sales have doubled or tripled since this time last year.

 

On Saturday, he said, he did as much business as he would normally do in a week.

 

"I have been in business for 12 years, and I was here for Y2K, September 11, Katrina," Conatser said, as a steady stream of customers browsed what remained of his stock. "And all of those were big events, and we did notice a spike in business, but nothing on the order of what we are seeing right now."

 

Weapons dealers in much of the United States are reporting sharply higher sales since Barack Obama won the presidency a week ago."

 

 

 

How do people think? I guess like this :

 

 

Buyers and sellers attribute the surge to worries that Obama and a Democratic-controlled Congress will move to restrict firearm ownership, despite the insistence of campaign aides that the president-elect supports gun rights and considers the issue a low priority.

Conatser said his store, Virginia Arms Company, has run out of some models -- such as the AR-15 rifle, the civilian version of the military's M-16 -- and is running low on others.

 

Such assault weapons are among the firearms that gun dealers and customers say they fear Obama will hit with new restrictions, or even take off the market.

 

And this guy:

Virginia gun owner Kyle Lewandowski said he was buying a .45-caliber pistol to "hedge my bets."

 

"Every election year, you have to worry about your rights being eroded a little bit at a time," he said. "I also knew, because of the Democrat majority and because of the election, everybody would have the same reaction I did," he added.

So in the US, when the economy is at it's worst in 80 years of history, they urge to go buy more guns, and machine guns, instead of some emergency stuff like canned food, matches and candles; and when they finally have a new president which will try to make things go better, they fear they will lost their "liberty" to kill, as if fire weapons were the tools for safety, peace and freedom.

[bodybag]

IYM, haven't you realized by now that yanks love their guns and privatization. It's cultural. Don't be hatin' on my country men and women.

[Im Your Man]

ahah, yeah I noticed since several years, but it's still hard to believe, and will always be. But I'm not hating ...I'm just being... full of hope that they will change, I guess. But at the sametime, I don't really care, because maybe they're hopeless (?).

[Vegan Joe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ceg2wPUGDI

[Im Your Man]

So if we try to think and analyze this behavior, we can conclude that: as soon as they fear that peace could happen, they all panick and run to the nearest gun shop to buy more guns and be sure that they keep their violence at a decent high level, lol.

[Vegan Joe]

Actually it all stems from the fear of Canadians.

[bodybag]

I'm Your Man... do you think guns are going to disappear entirely? They're going to be around until every last bomb destroys this piece of shit planet.

 

I'd personally much rather have them in the hands of civilians instead of just state controlled military.

+1

[Im Your Man]

I'm Your Man... do you think guns are going to disappear entirely? They're going to be around until every last bomb destroys this piece of shit planet.

 

I'd personally much rather have them in the hands of civilians instead of just state controlled military.

No I don't think guns will disappear (though it's possible in a very distant future, or humans will disappear before them); the problem is not really the fact that Americans have guns, the problem is that they are Americans. Americans shouldn't be allowed to have guns until they stop behaving like deranged cowboys or sociopaths. Canadians don't really go buy more guns after elections. Or if they'd do this, it would be to have guns for hunting, or for their collection, etc. not for selfdefense or fear of something! Like mentioned in the movie "Bowling For Columbine", Canadians have many guns, 7 million of guns for 10 million of families. But the murders by guns are very low compared to the US. Samething in most countries, except the very poor countries. USA is the richest country in the world and the poorest at the sametime.

[Im Your Man]

(...) there have been many years where homicide rates in Canada were almost on par with American ones.

 

Michael Moore can shut up and go back to his fat tub of ice cream.

Do you mean homicides or homicides by gun? I'm talking about guns.

I've already watched all those stats, on nationmaster.com, Canada is always way behind USA per capita. If Micheal Moore is too dumb (actually it's his tactic, he knows most viewers are stupid) to tell the right stats, I'm not. Are you saying there's no problems with guns in the US, that it's a myth ? I know there are many countries with more killings by guns than the US, but those countries are no way comparable in terms of average salary per citizen, as well as civil rights, democracy, quality of life, etc. USA is an exception in the world wen it comes to murders by guns, compared to similar developped countries under democracy.

[blabbate]

Unfortunately Michael Moore doesn't understand that proportionality should be a guideline to statistics. The U.S. has more than 30x (probably about 35x if you count all the illegal immigrants who aren't counted by census data) the people Canada does, and none of the stats in his movie about gun deaths were per capita. You can google the numbers yourself, there have been many years where homicide rates in Canada were almost on par with American ones.

The claim that the Canadian homicide rate has ever approached the American one is simply false.

American Rate: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm

Canadian Rate: http://www41.statcan.ca/2007/2693/grafx/htm/ceb2693_000_2-eng.htm#table

Also, about 65-75% of American homicides are commited by gun, but only 30-35% in Canada, so those statistics vary even more sharply than the overall homicide counts.

[Im Your Man]

Interestingly enough Canada has about 3x the number of rapes per capita in comparison to the United States. Canada is actually #4 in the entire world as far as rape statistics. Personally I think there is a direct correlation between that and the difficulty to obtain handguns in this country.

Why do you think it's harder to get guns in Canada ? Perhaps it is a bit harder, I don't know personnally, but imo you just need a permit and that's it. Like I said, 7 million of guns for for 30 million people or 10 million Canadian families, that's quite a lot of guns. Many Canadians who hunt or practice shooting have 6, 7 guns. But, doing rapes because it's hard to find a gun? Chosing rape as a second option rather than murdering? That's a weird theory. When someone wants to kill, he will do it, or not, no matter if he has a gun or not, but I don't think he will chose to rape just because he don't have a gun. I think it's the opposite, having a gun makes rapes easier.

[VeganEssentials]

I'm Your Man... do you think guns are going to disappear entirely? They're going to be around until every last bomb destroys this piece of shit planet.

 

I'd personally much rather have them in the hands of civilians instead of just state controlled military.

No I don't think guns will disappear (though it's possible in a very distant future, or humans will disappear before them); the problem is not really the fact that Americans have guns, the problem is that they are Americans. Americans shouldn't be allowed to have guns until they stop behaving like deranged cowboys or sociopaths. Canadians don't really go buy more guns after elections. Or if they'd do this, it would be to have guns for hunting, or for their collection, etc. not for selfdefense or fear of something! Like mentioned in the movie "Bowling For Columbine", Canadians have many guns, 7 million of guns for 10 million of families. But the murders by guns are very low compared to the US. Samething in most countries, except the very poor countries. USA is the richest country in the world and the poorest at the sametime.

 

Much of the gun-purchasing hysteria comes from the notion that under Obama's regime, it will be nearly impossible to get some of the firearms that are currently availble, so everyone is in a mad rush to get while the getting's good. This doesn't have ANY correllation to people wanting to shoot at other people or anything violent, it's simply a mass hysteria over perceived changes in regulation and everyone's out to get their hands on more weapons because they believe that soon it won't be an option. It's much the same as when someone gets the word out that a certain product is going to be discontinued - everyone floods out to get the last of what's left, fearing that they'll never have another chance. In this case, it's stupid fearmongering over weapons, but that's all it is - we're not suffering from a mass decision to purchase more guns solely because we all plan on going out on shooting sprees in the next year

 

I think that your perception of Americans is still far, far skewed to suit the hater side that too many non-Americans seem to adopt. You fall for a lot of propaganda, the stereotypical redneck American persona that others like to think is a common thing when it's actually only the norm in small pockets across the country. It's much the same as if I took every comedian's jokes that bag on Canadians as the truth about how they are, or thought you were all like Bob & Doug MacKenzie from "Strange Brew". While the USA has a crapload of problems, hearing you pull the same stereotypes out again and again as if they were somehow even remotely accurate at portraying the average US citizen gets pretty old and irritating. As I've said before, I don't know where you get your news or info on what Americans are like, but I do hope that someday you'll actually come here and tour the country and find that 99% of what you tend to perceive us as is so far off base, you'll probably feel ashamed for believing the hype once you've see things with your own eyes.

[blabbate]

The claim that the Canadian homicide rate has ever approached the American one is simply false.

American Rate: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm

Canadian Rate: http://www41.statcan.ca/2007/2693/grafx/htm/ceb2693_000_2-eng.htm#table

Also, about 65-75% of American homicides are committed by gun, but only 30-35% in Canada, so those statistics vary even more sharply than the overall homicide counts.

Depends how you want to crunch the numbers the numbers.

No, it really doesn't. The homicide rate in Canada has never been "almost on par" with America. In the 11 years for which we have accurate American and Canadian statistics, the closest they've come to par is 2.74:1 and the furthest is 4.07:1.

 

U.S.A. has roughly 2x the amount of homicides per capita as Canada on a good year. Still, neither country even have particularly high murder rates compared to countries like Russia, Columbia, Meixco or even Thailand so the spread is marginal as far as I'm concerned.

That's true, but as a country theoretically near the top of the HDI, I think we should be aiming a bit higher than Russia or Colombia. I think Canada deserves credit in this case, and the U.S. only disappointment.

 

Interestingly enough Canada has about 3x the number of rapes per capita in comparison to the United States. Canada is actually #4 in the entire world as far as rape statistics. Personally I think there is a direct correlation between that and the difficulty to obtain handguns in this country.

Rape statistics are notoriously volatile. They're subject to large margins of error due to over-reporting, under-reporting, and false reporting. I don't doubt Canada has a higher per capita number, but trying to draw a correlation to anything based on non-specific rape statistics is probably futile.

[blabbate]

Why do you think it's harder to get guns in Canada ? Perhaps it is a bit harder, I don't know personnally, but imo you just need a permit and that's it. Like I said, 7 million of guns for for 30 million people or 10 million Canadian families, that's quite a lot of guns. Many Canadians who hunt or practice shooting have 6, 7 guns.

It's 7 million to 30 million in general (actually 31.5 per 100 as of 2007), but that doesn't actually tell us how many Canadians own guns. As you said, many might own several, skewing the statistics. But even without taking into account the average number of guns per household, America is way ahead with 90 guns per 100 people, so I don't have trouble believing it's harder to get guns in Canada.

 

But, doing rapes because it's hard to find a gun? Chosing rape as a second option rather than murdering? That's a weird theory. When someone wants to kill, he will do it, or not, no matter if he has a gun or not, but I don't think he will chose to rape just because he don't have a gun. I think it's the opposite, having a gun makes rapes easier.

I don't buy it either, but I've heard crazier ideas.

[Im Your Man]

No, I'm saying crimes like rape are prevented because people are armed.

 

I assume most people would be less willing to do a lot of bad things if they knew they ran the risk of being shot.

Guns don't prevent anything, they cause everything. I extrapolate, but what I mean is that guns prevent some crimes, but also cause more crimes, in comparision as if nobody was armed. But since one person got a gun, than the rest of the nation feel insecure until they all have guns. It's the vicious circle in which Americans are entangled with their ideology that makes the right of self defense something that became an obsession and a nightmare. It's the red spiral of violence... (I feel poetic tonight)

[Im Your Man]

I think that your perception of Americans is still far, far skewed to suit the hater side that too many non-Americans seem to adopt. You fall for a lot of propaganda, the stereotypical redneck American persona that others like to think is a common thing when it's actually only the norm in small pockets across the country. (...) While the USA has a crapload of problems, hearing you pull the same stereotypes out again and again as if they were somehow even remotely accurate at portraying the average US citizen gets pretty old and irritating. As I've said before, I don't know where you get your news or info on what Americans are like, but I do hope that someday you'll actually come here and tour the country and find that 99% of what you tend to perceive us as is so far off base, you'll probably feel ashamed for believing the hype once you've see things with your own eyes.

The portrait I make of Americans irritates you? The last time I talked about it was in the middle of the summer, many months ago; perhaps you're a bit too bitter. I didn't post my stereotypes; just an article, not written by me, with quotes from a gun seller. The article drew the portrait of how the nation behave. So this answers your question: where do I get my news and infos. There's the link to the full article. I get the news from the same places then anyone else; newspapers, internet, books, documentaries, etc. And no, I'm not a fan of Micheal Moore, not at all. There's no hate in what I feel, just curiosity. I know there's good, bad and stupid people in all nations accross the planet. So don't worry, I don't think that the 300 million Americans are rednecks, armed with bazookas. Who would think like that, even not a 3 year old child. I perfectly know that if I travel accross USA, the chances are low that I will see gun shootings in the deserts or in downtown. And I do hope too that I will get the chance to travel there, but I won't feel ashamed of what I believe now. I'll just see ordinary people, like everywhere else. But I just think there's something wrong, something special; is it coming from the medias, governments, or what else ? A friend of mine who just came back from L.A after he lived one year there, told me while he was still over there, that there's something strange going on, something weird about the people. If you think the numbers of homicides by guns in the US are normal and not alarmous when compared to similar countries, that's ok, to each one his opinions. I'm just trying to understand that's all, nothing more. It's a pity that my posts transcend other things. But there's no paranoia, no hating. Sometimes I'm just teasing Americans too, like they tease the French ;p

[bodybag]

Gun Laws Around The World: Do They Work? By Don B. Kates

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=72

 

Nation's Rates Of Private Gun Ownership Do Not Correlate To Rates Of Murder

http://www.gunowners.org/op0746.htm

[bodybag]

But governments will grab guns at any opportunity regardless of this for one simple reason: they want you disarmed because it expands their own authoritarian power.

+1

[blabbate]

I'm your man, even in 2005 when Toronto had a record 51 gun murders I believe only one of them was committed with a registered firearm. Of course, David Miller moved swiftly to ban all legally owned handguns from the city of Toronto in order to combat this.

Good point. Firearm ownership statistics only reflect the guns we're aware of, which generally aren't the issue.

 

If you're of the school of thought that be it 1 or 100 murders committed with a legally owned gun... then why not just ban everything that poses any danger to anyone at all? How about an all encompassing nanny state where the government tells me what I can and can't eat, who I can associate with, which intersections I am allowed to cross the street at or just anything and everything in general that could pose some inherent risk. In fact, why don't they install cameras in my own home to stop me from doing something like cutting myself shaving or drowning in the bathtub.

Straw man. He's not saying to ban everything that poses any danger, and it's a spurious conclusion to draw. A gun is designed to cause injury or, hopefully, to deter violence by threat of injury. It's deadly by design. That's not to say there's never a use for one, but it's a far cry from a bathtub or a street or a shaver. The level of risk is vastly different.

 

There are literally 100s of different factors that contribute to higher rates of murder in some places. Legally owned firearms are not one of any great significance. But governments will grab guns at any opportunity regardless of this for one simple reason: they want you disarmed because it expands their own authoritarian power. That, and it it also keeps the soccer moms voting for them in the next ellection.

I'm going to assume you're not talking about the U.S. government, because the lobbyists make sure nobody is grabbing our guns "at any opportunity." Lots of our soccer moms have guns. And believe me, not even a well-organized group of citizens with firearms is any sort of threat to the "authoritarian power" of the military.

[Im Your Man]

I agree with blabbates' comments.

[VeganEssentials]

I think that your perception of Americans is still far, far skewed to suit the hater side that too many non-Americans seem to adopt. You fall for a lot of propaganda, the stereotypical redneck American persona that others like to think is a common thing when it's actually only the norm in small pockets across the country. (...) While the USA has a crapload of problems, hearing you pull the same stereotypes out again and again as if they were somehow even remotely accurate at portraying the average US citizen gets pretty old and irritating. As I've said before, I don't know where you get your news or info on what Americans are like, but I do hope that someday you'll actually come here and tour the country and find that 99% of what you tend to perceive us as is so far off base, you'll probably feel ashamed for believing the hype once you've see things with your own eyes.

The portrait I make of Americans irritates you? The last time I talked about it was in the middle of the summer, many months ago; perhaps you're a bit too bitter. I didn't post my stereotypes; just an article, not written by me, with quotes from a gun seller. The article drew the portrait of how the nation behave. So this answers your question: where do I get my news and infos. There's the link to the full article. I get the news from the same places then anyone else; newspapers, internet, books, documentaries, etc. And no, I'm not a fan of Micheal Moore, not at all. There's no hate in what I feel, just curiosity. I know there's good, bad and stupid people in all nations accross the planet. So don't worry, I don't think that the 300 million Americans are rednecks, armed with bazookas. Who would think like that, even not a 3 year old child. I perfectly know that if I travel accross USA, the chances are low that I will see gun shootings in the deserts or in downtown. And I do hope too that I will get the chance to travel there, but I won't feel ashamed of what I believe now. I'll just see ordinary people, like everywhere else. But I just think there's something wrong, something special; is it coming from the medias, governments, or what else ? A friend of mine who just came back from L.A after he lived one year there, told me while he was still over there, that there's something strange going on, something weird about the people. If you think the numbers of homicides by guns in the US are normal and not alarmous when compared to similar countries, that's ok, to each one his opinions. I'm just trying to understand that's all, nothing more. It's a pity that my posts transcend other things. But there's no paranoia, no hating. Sometimes I'm just teasing Americans too, like they tease the French ;p

 

You've had a fair shake in making blanket statements about U.S. citizens on a number of occasions - just wanted to point out that while jumping on the anti-U.S. attitude bandwagon may be the "in" thing to do, painting us all with one brush gets old fast. You did say, and I quote "Americans shouldn't be allowed to have guns until they stop behaving like deranged cowboys or sociopaths", which does not seem to be from the article, but rather, your own personal opinon. If such statements that you make any time the USA is mentioned aren't blanket statements regarding your opinion, then I honestly don't know what is. Add that with your numerous statements in the past that allude to the bulk of U.S. citizens being little more than a bunch of rednecks, and you have to understand, some of us aren't going to be all too pleased about being called that. As always, everyone is in their right to poke fun and state their opinions, but I've always felt you've got a pretty weird concept of what life in the USA is like, and since you've stated that you have never been here before, I do think that seeing the variance of life across the country would open your eyes considerably vs. getting your info only from 2nd hand souces that tend to want to point out all that they see wrong with our country vs. the fact that there's plenty of good here as well.

 

But, that's the last I'll speak of it. One can either choose to see things for their reality, or choose to believe what is more fun, but you can't have both

[bodybag]

Preach on brotha' veganessentials!

[DaN]

Any country where guns are available, leagally or illegally is going to have higher murder rates than one without because guns make killing easy.You cannot compare them to scissors, knives or baseball bats.

 

Countries where guns are easily available are stupid & scary places.To say guns help people defend themselves is EXACTLY relative to to the amount of people who use them to commit crime.

 

Here in the UK, guns are not easy to find, they are illegal.

 

In rare cases of firearms use, it is met swiftly with our special armed police who 9/10 times kill the armed person, no questions asked.

 

Because only they have free use of guns, we have a far safer country.That is statistical fact.When I walk down the street in my home town, the biggest worry I have is someone with a knife.Walk down any street in the US, & your biggest worry is a gun.Go figure.

 

When people stop thinking like retards, & realise that 'Im Your Mans' opinion that the best option is no guns at all - for anyone, the world will be a safer place.The best way to stop gun crime? Stop making guns in factories & destry all existing firearms.Its a logic that is so simple, it is laughable that anyone is dumb enough to try to argue otherwise - in my opinion.

 

[blabbate]

Any country where guns are available, leagally or illegally is going to have higher murder rates than one without because guns make killing easy.You cannot compare them to scissors, knives or baseball bats.

 

Countries where guns are easily available are stupid & scary places.To say guns help people defend themselves is EXACTLY relative to to the amount of people who use them to commit crime.

That's a pretty harsh thing to say about Norway. Or even France. Guns are available legally in both. In fact, Norway has the highest or near highest ownership rate in western Europe, but one of the lowest murder rates. And France is about comparable with the UK. Whereas in Russia guns are difficult to legally obtain, but the murder rate is through the roof.

 

It's just not as simple as you make it seem.

 

Here in the UK, guns are not easy to find, they are illegal.

 

In rare cases of firearms use, it is met swiftly with our special armed police who 9/10 times kill the armed person, no questions asked.

 

Because only they have free use of guns, we have a far safer country.That is statistical fact.When I walk down the street in my home town, the biggest worry I have is someone with a knife.Walk down any street in the US, & your biggest worry is a gun.Go figure.

Strange, because your violent crime rate is significantly higher than that of the U.S. The total violent crime rate for England and Wales is 23 per 1000 (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/hosb1206chap78.pdf). In the U.S. it's 4.69 per 1000 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html).

 

Because again, it's more complicated. Some people are violent with or without guns, and others are responsible with or without guns. Some criminals are deterred by civilian firearm ownership, and others wouldn't be able to get a gun in the first place if firearms were banned. The statistics can be bent in a lot of different directions.

 

When people stop thinking like retards, & realise that 'Im Your Mans' opinion that the best option is no guns at all - for anyone, the world will be a safer place.The best way to stop gun crime? Stop making guns in factories & destry all existing firearms.Its a logic that is so simple, it is laughable that anyone is dumb enough to try to argue otherwise - in my opinion.

Well, it's too late for that. We have armed militaries, and they're not going away.

[Guest]

ahah, yeah I noticed since several years, but it's still hard to believe, and will always be. But I'm not hating ...I'm just being... full of hope that they will change, I guess. But at the sametime, I don't really care, because maybe they're hopeless (?).

 

sad to say, some are. i attended a one-year old's birthday party (now keep in mind the kid's name was hunter) and guess what his papa gave him -- his very first rifle! i was appauled.

 

these same people, of course, backed the mccain-palin ticket. as we know, that alaskan governor... she's a heckuva killer... at least from a helicopter! *wink*

 

fortunately, the majority of americans chose wisely in '08. the others, though, will continue to live in fear -- the same fear that took the u.s. to iraq -- and stock up on weapons.