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Gun sales surge after Obama's election (link)


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Sorry M,

I am not picking on you personally, just letting some of my thoughts out base on how alot of people feel.

 

sad to say, some are. i attended a one-year old's birthday party (now keep in mind the kid's name was hunter) and guess what his papa gave him -- his very first rifle! i was appauled.

Guess this would be different, then the Japanese couple presenting their son with a Samurai Sword.

What is it about people, and other people personal freedoms. It's like people are saying: only the personal freedoms that I think are right are gay, wicken, etc., and people like gun owners, or Christians can go to hell.

 

these same people, of course, backed the mccain-palin ticket. as we know, that alaskan governor... she's a heckuva killer... at least from a helicopter! *wink*

You would hope that they made a conscious decision about their vote base on more than just, gun control.

 

fortunately, the majority of americans chose wisely in '08. the others, though, will continue to live in fear -- the same fear that took the u.s. to iraq -- and stock up on weapons

Now when you say wisely, this is merely wishful thinking as no one can predict the future. I don't think fear is party based or pro/con gun ownership emotion.

http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv

46% of American voters might have gotten it right, only time will tell.

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Sorry M,

I am not picking on you personally, just letting some of my thoughts out base on how alot of people feel.

 

sad to say, some are. i attended a one-year old's birthday party (now keep in mind the kid's name was hunter) and guess what his papa gave him -- his very first rifle! i was appauled.

Guess this would be different, then the Japanese couple presenting their son with a Samurai Sword.

What is it about people, and other people personal freedoms. It's like people are saying: only the personal freedoms that I think are right are gay, wicken, etc., and people like gun owners, or Christians can go to hell.

 

these same people, of course, backed the mccain-palin ticket. as we know, that alaskan governor... she's a heckuva killer... at least from a helicopter! *wink*

You would hope that they made a conscious decision about their vote base on more than just, gun control.

 

fortunately, the majority of americans chose wisely in '08. the others, though, will continue to live in fear -- the same fear that took the u.s. to iraq -- and stock up on weapons

Now when you say wisely, this is merely wishful thinking as no one can predict the future. I don't think fear is party based or pro/con gun ownership emotion.

http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv

46% of American voters might have gotten it right, only time will tell.

 

 

As someone who opposes hunting innocent animals, I believe guns are quite different than Samurai Swords, which you mentioned. Many people in the U.S. purchase guns for hunting purposes. Unless, of course they are choosing to be armed with criminal intent. As a resident of Chicago, which has a very high murder rate and gun fire abounds, there is concern, as well. These "personal freedoms" have ethical ramifications. And I feel I am in complete line to question those. Someone has to speak up for the animals or those people afraid to live in their neighborhoods due to gang violence.

 

I believe that the planet and off-shore drilling and animal rights issues were a major issue with Gov. Palin. Shooting wolves from helicopters is not something I am OK with.

 

As for the fear I mentioned, that would be all of those people running out to get their guns before President-Elect Obama changes policy.

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Maybe guns are not that bad. Maybe they can give confidence? The mobs and the hunters will always have guns, regardless of the laws - and with a ban noone else is going to have guns! And I'm not American so it's really not my business:)

Samurai swords are awesome - and really different. As many masters from the Meiji era said, the sword is there to remove the impurities from your spirit - all other use is butchery. When you become good with the sword, you will end up not hurting other beings - you simply won't need to. I personally have a lot more to learn - I still feel that people shooting animals from a helicopter deserve a katana passing through their neck

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(...)

You did say, and I quote "Americans shouldn't be allowed to have guns until they stop behaving like deranged cowboys or sociopaths", which does not seem to be from the article, but rather, your own personal opinon. If such statements that you make any time the USA is mentioned aren't blanket statements regarding your opinion, then I honestly don't know what is. Add that with your numerous statements in the past that allude to the bulk of U.S. citizens being little more than a bunch of rednecks, and you have to understand, some of us aren't going to be all too pleased about being called that.

(...)

I do think that seeing the variance of life across the country would open your eyes considerably vs. getting your info only from 2nd hand souces that tend to want to point out all that they see wrong with our country vs. the fact that there's plenty of good here as well.

I would change my statement to : "psychopath cowboys and deranged sociopaths", it's prettier ;P But seriously, I'm sorry if I pointed the bad things and problems happening in the US so often, I know it's not fair. Lots of bad things happen where I live too, and there's problems everywhere; and many good things too. It's true that the medias always talk about the murders, shootings in school, bombs and terrorist attacks, etc... and rarely bother about telling good things that happens each day. Result: people are scared, buy more guns, they live in fear; some other people are not scared and live a peaceful life. I'm not scared, but I heard a few Americans saying they don't like to live in fear and moved to Canada. I'm not saying that's what all Americans do or would wish to do.

 

So yeah, there's good things happening in the US, of course, with many people who are happy and genuinely good persons. "USA, the craddle of the best and of the worst", from the song Democracy by Leonard Cohen (I love all his songs, one of them being I'm Your Man, which is in part why I chose this stupid nickname, I'm a bit romantic... but also because I'm willing to help about anybody who needs it), also in that song he says something that describes how I feel and perhaps explains some of my critics towards USA: "I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean; I love the country, but I can't stand the scene". But I'll try to talk more about the bright side of USA in the future, for I know there is one. I'm more and more a positive and optimistic person, at least I feel less like talking about negative things.

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As someone who opposes hunting innocent animals, I believe guns are quite different than Samurai Swords, which you mentioned. Many people in the U.S. purchase guns for hunting purposes. Unless, of course they are choosing to be armed with criminal intent.

Yeah, the samurai sword thing was a weird, pointless (heh) comparison, but there are plenty of people who buy guns not for hunting or for criminal intent, but for self-defense, especially of the home. I don't personally want one, and I would rather nobody had them, but I can see that point of view. It's partially out of fear, but some fear is rational.

 

As a resident of Chicago, which has a very high murder rate and gun fire abounds, there is concern, as well. These "personal freedoms" have ethical ramifications. And I feel I am in complete line to question those. Someone has to speak up for the animals or those people afraid to live in their neighborhoods due to gang violence.

I live just outside of northeast DC, so I'm no stranger to a high murder rate. But to play devil's advocate, I don't know if we're ever going to get to a point where the gangs can't get their hands on guns, even if we ban them completely. And if we can't get to that point, is it really ethical to make it illegal for responsible adults to defend themselves with commensurate force?

 

I believe that the planet and off-shore drilling and animal rights issues were a major issue with Gov. Palin. Shooting wolves from helicopters is not something I am OK with.

I had more of a problem with her difficulty with subject-verb agreement when speaking in public, but there are plenty of other equally valid flaws to choose from.

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As someone who opposes hunting innocent animals, I believe guns are quite different than Samurai Swords, which you mentioned. Many people in the U.S. purchase guns for hunting purposes. Unless, of course they are choosing to be armed with criminal intent.

Yeah, the samurai sword thing was a weird, pointless (heh) comparison, but there are plenty of people who buy guns not for hunting or for criminal intent, but for self-defense, especially of the home. I don't personally want one, and I would rather nobody had them, but I can see that point of view. It's partially out of fear, but some fear is rational.

 

As a resident of Chicago, which has a very high murder rate and gun fire abounds, there is concern, as well. These "personal freedoms" have ethical ramifications. And I feel I am in complete line to question those. Someone has to speak up for the animals or those people afraid to live in their neighborhoods due to gang violence.

I live just outside of northeast DC, so I'm no stranger to a high murder rate. But to play devil's advocate, I don't know if we're ever going to get to a point where the gangs can't get their hands on guns, even if we ban them completely. And if we can't get to that point, is it really ethical to make it illegal for responsible adults to defend themselves with commensurate force?

 

I believe that the planet and off-shore drilling and animal rights issues were a major issue with Gov. Palin. Shooting wolves from helicopters is not something I am OK with.

I had more of a problem with her difficulty with subject-verb agreement when speaking in public, but there are plenty of other equally valid flaws to choose from.

 

If it's one more innocent life (whether that of an animal or a human) 'cause of one less gun out there, I believe that's a good thing. Guns aren't the best form of self-defense -- they can be turned against the person they are intended to protect. Better to get an alarm system.

 

As for Palin, I had a problem with her lack of experience and knowledge as well as her poor interviewing, public speaking, etc. But "Drill baby, drill!" will do us all in, and I do not support her hunting and senseless killing of animals. ... I am admittedly an advocate for Mother Nature and all of her inhabitants.

 

 

 

 

My belief is we need to start somewhere & if it's one less gun out there and one more innocent life

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Guns aren't the best form of self-defense -- they can be turned against the person they are intended to protect. Better to get an alarm system.
I agree with that. An alarm system or to take self-defense courses by chosing one of the many martial arts; this would lower the murder rates and also the obesity. Being physically active, instead of just pushing a trigger, will put good vibes and energy in people's mind. Most people mastering a martial art will only use it for self-defense, which obviously is not the case with guns.
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If it's one more innocent life (whether that of an animal or a human) 'cause of one less gun out there, I believe that's a good thing.

I agree, but, just to play devil's advocate again, we can't be sure that one less gun equals any number of lives saved in all circumstances. In some situations, one less gun might mean an innocent life lost.

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If it's one more innocent life (whether that of an animal or a human) 'cause of one less gun out there, I believe that's a good thing. Guns aren't the best form of self-defense -- they can be turned against the person they are intended to protect. Better to get an alarm system.

 

Good point when you believe that people are driven by self interest.

 

 

My belief is we need to start somewhere & if it's one less gun out there and one more innocent life

 

Indeed, it doesn't matter how we get there, we have to begin!

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So those opposing guns, do you agree that the police and military should also be disarmed?
I'll answer your question by another question: why do you want guns, to kill ? So of course (imho), the state must be disarmed too. If everybody is disarmed, the state don't need weapons. If the state is armed, people should be armed too, especially under a dictatorship. Peace only works if all sides agree. Of course this will never happen anytime soon, but we must start one day. I don't believe in miracles like some sudden world scale spiritual enlightenment, but it can happen gradually, if we start working on it. Like David Lynch's idea to put transcendental meditation in all schools in the world. This could be way more useful than some other things they teach in class.
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In a world with many Joes I was right when I said :
Of course this will never happen anytime soon

Just trying to figure if you're still hating with a personal attack, or just trying to be funny, with your Joes stereotyping.

PS somehow I don't think you got the point I was tryng to get accross.

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I'm just trying to be funny, but the reality is funny sometimes, and sad too.

From what I understand its that you don't believe at all in peace so you ridiculize it and try to make fun of it.

Of course it's utopic to even think it would be possible to have zero guns and zero murders in humanity with the kind of mentality some people have currently around the world.

Such a drastic change needs a change in the people too, the whole perceptions of things, the way we think and feel things. Real changes come from within. You can't expect to see all guns removed from angry people by force, they will make a revolution. We need to wait the time that those people will not be as angry and will give their guns because they don't want them anymore. There are already many people ready for that change, who never in their entire life would want to own a gun. Why would it be impossible for all the earthlings to be like that? This is a scenario we've seen many times in Hollywood futuristic movies, such as Gattaca, Demolition man, The Island; only in these movies, there's still evil persons, but being guilty of the smallest offense is enough to be separated from society. Everything is possible. It could be the opposite too, a dystopian future like in Mad Max, Judge Dredd, where everything is bad. Make your choice.

 

So what was your point anyway ?

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I don't have much time for a detailed reply. For now, I'll just say that it's obvious that guns in the hands of people who use them for reasons such as personal defense or the shooting sports are not a problem and are not hurting anyone. People own guns legally (and sometimes are forced to do so outside the law too) for such purposes in the vast majority of countries - including England and Canada.

 

People should not face further restrictions on owning and/or using guns for these purposes - instead we should have legal/public recognition of our rights protected and expanded.

 

All of that said, it certainly seems advisable for folks who wish to own the guns and accessories that are likely to be banned or further restricted to purchase them now. If nothing else, it is a solid financial investment as these items hold their value quite well and may actually rise sharply in value.

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From what I understand its that you don't believe at all in peace so you ridiculize it and try to make fun of it.

When did I say that? I said I wasn't a pacifist, I never said I didn't want peace. You read too much in to what you've read so you can attack and support your argument. But don't feel bad. There are alot of people here who jump to conclusions and start name calling to cover up there lack of understanding. Look, I don't think you will find anyone hear who doen't agree with your ideal peaceful world. It's just that there are some realist here who know how unlikely that is. Let face it you can't even get along with your nieghbor, he's building a fence to keep you out. Idealism is fine but you have to come back down to Earth sometimes and work with what you GOT.

PS You don't know me and don't suppose you do.

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I don't have much time for a detailed reply. For now, I'll just say that it's obvious that guns in the hands of people who use them for reasons such as personal defense or the shooting sports are not a problem and are not hurting anyone. People own guns legally (and sometimes are forced to do so outside the law too) for such purposes in the vast majority of countries - including England and Canada.

 

People should not face further restrictions on owning and/or using guns for these purposes - instead we should have legal/public recognition of our rights protected and expanded.

 

All of that said, it certainly seems advisable for folks who wish to own the guns and accessories that are likely to be banned or further restricted to purchase them now. If nothing else, it is a solid financial investment as these items hold their value quite well and may actually rise sharply in value.

Edited by Anonymous
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I don't have much time for a detailed reply. For now, I'll just say that it's obvious that guns in the hands of people who use them for reasons such as personal defense or the shooting sports are not a problem and are not hurting anyone. People own guns legally (and sometimes are forced to do so outside the law too) for such purposes in the vast majority of countries - including England and Canada.

 

People should not face further restrictions on owning and/or using guns for these purposes - instead we should have legal/public recognition of our rights protected and expanded.

 

All of that said, it certainly seems advisable for folks who wish to own the guns and accessories that are likely to be banned or further restricted to purchase them now. If nothing else, it is a solid financial investment as these items hold their value quite well and may actually rise sharply in value.

 

I grew up in a household with guns. There was only one reason: my father was in law enforcement. It was made clear to me at an early age the danger of guns, what they can do -- KILL. And every day my mother and I knew that something could happen to my dad during his work day because some lunatic was packing. As I grew, my father did teach me to shoot -- and I'm an expert shot. I choose, however, not to own a gun. If my youth didn't teach me a few things, working a couple years as a crime reporter for a newspaper did. Enough undercover projects taught me what is really out there -- and imagine interviewing the family members of a downed cop or worse... innocent child bystander. Defense and sport are not legit reasons. 1 -- guns can be turned against those carrying them for defense, making matters worse. Get an alarm and be cautious. Sport? Are you in support of hunting? Very peculiar for a vegan forum...

 

I hope everyone can consider the greater good.

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I don't have much time for a detailed reply. For now, I'll just say that it's obvious that guns in the hands of people who use them for reasons such as personal defense or the shooting sports are not a problem and are not hurting anyone. People own guns legally (and sometimes are forced to do so outside the law too) for such purposes in the vast majority of countries - including England and Canada.

 

People should not face further restrictions on owning and/or using guns for these purposes - instead we should have legal/public recognition of our rights protected and expanded.

 

All of that said, it certainly seems advisable for folks who wish to own the guns and accessories that are likely to be banned or further restricted to purchase them now. If nothing else, it is a solid financial investment as these items hold their value quite well and may actually rise sharply in value.

 

I grew up in a household with guns. There was only one reason: my father was in law enforcement. It was made clear to me at an early age the danger of guns, what they can do -- KILL. And every day my mother and I knew that something could happen to my dad during his work day because some lunatic was packing. As I grew, my father did teach me to shoot -- and I'm an expert shot. I choose, however, not to own a gun. If my youth didn't teach me a few things, working a couple years as a crime reporter for a newspaper did. Enough undercover projects taught me what is really out there -- and imagine interviewing the family members of a downed cop or worse... innocent child bystander. Defense and sport are not legit reasons. 1 -- guns can be turned against those carrying them for defense, making matters worse. Get an alarm and be cautious. Sport? Are you in support of hunting? Very peculiar for a vegan forum...

 

I hope everyone can consider the greater good.

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gun control does not prevent cops from dying, as criminals are not controlled by gun control. Also you mention that a gun being carried can be turned against the original user, so get an alarm, does that mean a personal alarm? There is competitive shooting too. GSSF, IDPA, etc.

 

Anyhow,

 

+1 for what love and others have said concerning the right to defend yourself how you wish. I own myself and will defend myself as I see fit. Guns for the most part are a benefit to individuals, there should not be restrictions as restrictions are worthless.

 

I got mine

 

and I'm your man. Of course I want a gun to kill, but you say it in a bad way; without context. I have no problem killing anyone who has broken into my home and threatens me with a weapon, but they'd be a lunatic not to run out of the house first as i'm quite ugly. I have no problem killing someone committing rape, or someone who is going to harm my family or my dog nor would any decent person, but those who use guns to protect in these cases don't set out to shoot someone, they seek to stop the act and will use deadly force if necessary. There are elderly people who use them to protect themselves because they lack the physical means and/or strength of hand fighting. Women use them against men larger than them to ward off attacks. GLBTQ people have used them in order to protect themselves as well (see the Pink Pistols). Firearms are tools to exert force, and more often than not the people with good intentions have them and my draw them but don't need to fire. I know you want to end all violence on the planet and that's great but whether it be with sticks, rocks, fists, chains, knives, shovels, axes, guns, fire, explosives, cars, trained dogs, etc. People are going to kill other people for good or ill, you really can't legislate it out of existence. Most rational people recognize that as fact, but I know you and a few others among us are idealists in this sense.

 

Reading your earlier posts, I kind of wish I was that redneck you have such disdain for, but the more I try to paint myself as one the more I realize i'm just not. I shop at a co-op grocery store, ride a bike, recycle, and I don't drink alcohol, don't hunt or eat any animal products (like i'd be a vegan that hunts...that's very strange). I don't even have cowboy boots. I'm not a sociopath either. I am an introvert, but i'm pleasant with everyone I meet, but I keep to myself generally. Anyhow sorry to let you down on that end.

I agree though that there are plenty of bad things to say about the states, no doubt about it, but not everything is bad, especially not all the guns or their owners (at least in my opinion). I know a lot of gun owners-not bad folks. A few are vegans actually and recently a friend of mine who is a long time hunter went vegetarian and has stayed with that for about a year. Even feminists in the US are buying guns as I'm just now finding out. So we're (gun owners) making progress. There is a progressive-minded publication I recently came upon called the American Gun Culture Review. It's a small time zine out of Portland, OR of all places... They cater to a much broader and more, um, liberal spectrum of gun owners. If anything it would go to show that not everyone who owns a gun is frothing at the mouth to shoot anything living and whatever else is kind of wrong with people.

 

yup, i'm done.

Edited by CollegeB
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gun control does not prevent cops from dying, as criminals are not controlled by gun control. Also you mention that a gun being carried can be turned against the original user, so get an alarm, does that mean a personal alarm? There is competitive shooting too. GSSF, IDPA, etc.

 

Anyhow,

 

+1 for what love and others have said concerning the right to defend yourself how you wish. I own myself and will defend myself as I see fit. Guns for the most part are a benefit to individuals, there should not be restrictions as restrictions are worthless.

 

I got mine

 

and I'm your man. Of course I want a gun to kill, but you say it in a bad way; without context. I have no problem killing anyone who has broken into my home and threatens me with a weapon, but they'd be a lunatic not to run out of the house first as i'm quite ugly. I have no problem killing someone committing rape, or someone who is going to harm my family or my dog nor would any decent person, but those who use guns to protect in these cases don't set out to shoot someone, they seek to stop the act and will use deadly force if necessary. There are elderly people who use them to protect themselves because they lack the physical means and/or strength of hand fighting. Women use them against men larger than them to ward off attacks. GLBTQ people have used them in order to protect themselves as well (see the Pink Pistols). Firearms are tools to exert force, and more often than not the people with good intentions have them and my draw them but don't need to fire. I know you want to end all violence on the planet and that's great but whether it be with sticks, rocks, fists, chains, knives, shovels, axes, guns, fire, explosives, cars, trained dogs, etc. People are going to kill other people for good or ill, you really can't legislate it out of existence. Most rational people recognize that as fact, but I know you and a few others among us are idealists in this sense.

 

Reading your earlier posts, I kind of wish I was that redneck you have such disdain for, but the more I try to paint myself as one the more I realize i'm just not. I shop at a co-op grocery store, ride a bike, recycle, and I don't drink alcohol, don't hunt or eat any animal products (like i'd be a vegan that hunts...that's very strange). I don't even have cowboy boots. I'm not a sociopath either. I am an introvert, but i'm pleasant with everyone I meet, but I keep to myself generally. Anyhow sorry to let you down on that end.

I agree though that there are plenty of bad things to say about the states, no doubt about it, but not everything is bad, especially not all the guns or their owners (at least in my opinion). I know a lot of gun owners-not bad folks. A few are vegans actually and recently a friend of mine who is a long time hunter went vegetarian and has stayed with that for about a year. Even feminists in the US are buying guns as I'm just now finding out. So we're (gun owners) making progress. There is a progressive-minded publication I recently came upon called the American Gun Culture Review. It's a small time zine out of Portland, OR of all places... They cater to a much broader and more, um, liberal spectrum of gun owners. If anything it would go to show that not everyone who owns a gun is frothing at the mouth to shoot anything living and whatever else is kind of wrong with people.

 

yup, i'm done.

 

i will say it yet again... 1 being, whether human or animal saved because of 1 less gun out there is something we can and should aim for! this approach you speak of will do nothing to better our civilization. we must start somewhere and i'm grateful we have a president entering office here in the united states that realizes this.

 

peace out!

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People need to wake up a little, & stop viewing utopia as naiive, & started seeing it as the ultimate goal.All peaceful societies today were created by "naiive" people with visions of peace.Go and read some Plato.His dreams of perfect society actually shaped many historical figures actions in creating our world, including American Presidents.The fact is, he was ahead of his time, & probably had the same discussions we are having here, with people who simply lack vision, like some here.

 

Dont get me wrong, those of you who are pro guns, and are posting their opinion, are of course free to post their opinions.Thats what we are all here for.

 

I just cant believe you are seriously supporting selling a machine that is designed to & makes killing easy, to anyone who wants one! Can you not see the scarily obvious problem with this? IE: bad & crazy people being allowed a gun!

 

The main reason the pro-gun people are giving as justification of their opinion is that 'good' people with guns can protect themselves.

 

But as I said earlier, the amount of poeple using them aggresively & the people using them in self defense are bound to be roughly equal - ie RELATIVE.

 

Plus the group of 'good' self defense people you are claiming need guns to protect themselves, ultimately only need the gun to protect themselves from other 'bad' gun users! This is a double negative which creates 2 bads.Think about it.

 

If neither 'good' self defense owners, nor 'bad' aggresive gun owners have guns then you must see that the world would be more peaceful?

 

Have you guys ever really thought about it?

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If neither 'good' self defense owners, nor 'bad' aggresive gun owners have guns then you must see that the world would be more peaceful?

 

Have you guys ever really thought about it?

Of course, but this would mean the dismantling of police forces and military. It's just not possible. Some number of bad people are always going to be able to get their hands on guns. There are too many in circulation and too many being created to stop that from happening. The only thing we can do is try to make it harder for them to arm themselves.

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