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Patrick
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The pathogens are going to encounter these antibodies anyway, and not on some extremely dilated timeframe.

Its not what I mean, what I mean is, like it is the case for mutant insects exposed to insecticides, a virus may evolve to a more virulent strain faster when exposed to vaccines. With vaccines, we stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies but at the sametime we constantly stimulate viruses to become stronger by adapting to those same vaccines. Adaptation is inextricably linked to the notion of time, and Science is continuously transgressing the natural order of things so it will result in unatural things, like mutants, new diseases and new viruses and premature extinction of the human specie.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I agree that viruses and bacteria can mutate or adapt in response to medications and antibodies. I don't dispute that. However, the pathogens need to be exposed to the antibodies for that to happen, and vaccines do not increase that exposure. Again, all a vaccine does is prime the immune system. When a virus enters the system, it encounters antibodies no matter what. The vaccine just makes sure the antibodies are ready to go and destroy the virus before the person suffers. We are not exposing the pathogens to anything they wouldn't normally encounter.

 

We give vaccines to babies that would normally have the antibodies later once their immune system developps (as if we say: ''Nature made another mistake, it gave a weak immune system to babies and young children, let's try to fix the mistakes Nature did by injecting dozens of vaccines'').

That's pretty much what we're saying, yeah. We're saying that we can prime the immune systems of our children so that they can fight off these viruses without suffering the effects. If you think that's unnatural or that we're "tricking" nature, that's fine. However, that's a philosophical opinion, not a scientific or medical opinion.

 

Vaccines are useless because if we take the example of the Swine Flue, its already spread worldwide and then it may come back to America in the form of a new strain for which the vaccine is already too old and therefore worthless.

Agreed that this year's vaccine may be worthless next year. That's the case with any of the seasonal flu vaccine. But I disagree that they're useless, since they prevent flu symptoms.

 

Also, thanks in general for keeping this discussion civil.

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If I had young children, I would not let them go to a school where unvaccinated children play.

you must not really believe vaccines work, if you fear that your vaccinated kids can get the virus from unvaccinated kids.

If I had young children, I would not let them go to a school where vaccinated children play -- they are infected !

In the case of the swine flue, the government is injecting the virus weakened but alive, it is not 'disactivated' like blabbate says, it is active and contagious for many days, so because of the vaccination we automatically infect dozens of million people, and then they might infect the others.

Also, what if the 'wild' virus encounters the modified virus ? We could face a catastrophic scenario where the virus mutates to a stronger, more virulent and more resistant strain and its transmissibility increases from 1% to 30% and now we will have reasons to be scared of, thanks to the vaccine.

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If I had young children, I would not let them go to a school where unvaccinated children play.

If I had young children, I would not let them go to a school where vaccinated children play -- they are infected !

In the case of the swine flue, the government is injecting the virus weakened but alive, it is not 'disactivated' like blabbate says, it is active and contagious for many days, so because of the vaccination we automatically infect dozens of million people, and then they might infect the others.

The virus is only alive in the FluMist version of the vaccine. And even then, it's an attenuated version of the virus. It cannot reproduce at the temperature of human lungs, blood, or most of the body, effectively containing it to the nose. It cannot produce flu-level symptoms. At worst, in rare cases, you may get a runny nose or congestion. Finally, it's very difficult to transmit. The receiver would need to encounter a significant amount of nasal discharge from the source, then the virus would need to find a way to reproduce at body temperature, and then it would need to mutate to regain virulence.

 

There has only been one documented case of transmission. It was at a daycare set up to cause significant interaction between vaccinated and non-vaccinated children, and the child who caught the virus was asymptomatic. There has never been an instance where the virus regained the ability to reproduce or to cause flu symptoms, even within the original vaccinated host.

 

And of course, all of this only applies to the mist. The shot is dead and is the only option for children under 5 or the elderly.

 

Also, what if the 'wild' virus encounters the modified virus ?

This happens all the time, but no doomsday scenarios yet. That's just not how viruses work.

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